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Team or Individual accomplishment(13 posts)

Team or Individual accomplishmentbarcode
Jul 29, 2002 10:18 AM
How do you think Lance, and others, would have placed had it not been for the great work of their teams?

I think we would have different results if it was every man for himself. Certainly, it must make things alot easier for Lance considering that he's got such a good team working for him? Would he have finished so far ahead if he had a weaker team?

Personally, I'd rather see the cyclists racing without radio communication and as individual participants. I think this would give a more accurate result as to who is the best cyclist in the world.

Are there any professional races with this kind of structure, or do they all have a similar team based competition?

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks, Randy.
Then that would be something elseDougSloan
Jul 29, 2002 10:27 AM
It is what it is. It not a time trial. If you want to see that, check into the Race Across America. It's a time trial across the country, no drafting, no teamwork, etc.

The Tour is not necessarily the event to determine the "best cyclist in the world." It's a tour around France. That's all. Some may think of it as determining the best cyclist, but not necessarily.

If the Tour were simply a free for all or a pure time trial, I still think Lance would win. His strength and consistency appear to be far greater than any other one rider.

I'd prefer no radios, but then they'd just find some other way to communicate. It might force groups not to allow breaks to get out of sight, though.

Doug
Then that would be something elsebarcode
Jul 29, 2002 10:58 AM
I agree, he would still probably be amongst the best, even on his own. It just seems that because the TdF is the most popular race, people seem to associate its winner with "the best cyclist in the world", as Lance is now considered, what with winning as many as he has.

I will definitely check out the Race Across America thing, sounds very interesting.
Is the world championship road race a team race? nmLen J
Jul 29, 2002 11:00 AM
AbsolutelyBipedZed
Jul 29, 2002 11:13 AM
Each rider is a member of their national team, so many national teams are composed of riders from various trade teams. Weaker teams that ride well together with the goal of supporting a few or one strong rider always do better than super teams with many great riders all going for individual glory. Last year Spain rode brilliantly for Oscar Friere who won the race while super-team Italy chased down their own man in a break and then refused to work together to set someone up for the sprint because they each wanted the win for themselves.
So you end up with .........Len J
Jul 29, 2002 11:19 AM
conflicting team loyalties, National team vs. professional team. (Does Heras work for Lance or the Spanish team). Must be pretty wild to watch.

Shame it's not on in the U.S.

Course is usually set up for a sprint win isn't it?

Len
yesmr_spin
Jul 29, 2002 11:21 AM
Teams are by nation. It's a little unfair in that smaller, less successful countries generally get smaller teams, since the number of riders you get depends on UCI points per nation.

On the other hand, thanks to Vinokurov and Kivilev, last year Kazakstan was entitled to a lot of slots. I wonder if they found enough Kazakh pros to fill them!
are they really?ClydeTri
Jul 29, 2002 11:29 AM
I know they are always listed as by nations, is this just due to the location of the primary sponsor? It seems if they were "nation" teams, you would require the riders to be from that nation....I am guessing they just list as I said, the nation of the primary sponsor, thus, where there business office is most likely located...
YesBipedZed
Jul 29, 2002 11:40 AM
World championship road races are by national teams. Each nation has a selection process for selecting the roster that will compete at the world championships in the different races/categories (Elite, Espoir, Junior, RR, TT, Track).
well...mr_spin
Jul 29, 2002 11:41 AM
It's nothing to do with sponsors.

Riders are licensed with national organizations. There's one for France, one for Italy, one for the USA (USCF), etc. Your "nationality" is defined by where you are licensed, not where you are born or live. Typically, these are one and the same, however.

There are plenty of notable exceptions. Stefano Garzelli is Italian, but he is licensed in Switzerland for some reason. Guido Trenti is Italian, doesn't speak any English, but is licensed in the USA because he thought it would be easier to make the USA national team!

As you earn UCI points in races, your country also earns those same points. That determines how many riders you get in the big race. The maximum is 12, but you get an extra rider if your nation has the returning champion. Spain will easily get enough UCI points to get 12 men, and since Friere is the returning champion, they get 13 men.
Individual race efforts are calledonespeed
Jul 29, 2002 10:47 AM
time trials or triathlons. I think Lance has proven himself in both arenas.
It is a team race with an individual winner.No_sprint
Jul 29, 2002 10:53 AM
All the other strong riders had teams helping them too. It wasn't just the Posties.

True, things would likely be different if there were no teams. If it were every man for himself, it's my guess Zabel would probably not have as many points jerseys as he does. Cipo would likely not get as many stages as he does. My guess is Lance would win by larger margins if it were every man for himself.
Bicycle racing is a team sportchar
Jul 29, 2002 7:26 PM
There would be many more deals made on the road while racing amongst all the "individual riders" involving most of all money.

Check out Hemingway's "The Sun Also Rises," still applies today [the payoff]

Charlie