|Is this Clydesdale tooo big for this bike???||magnum|
Jul 23, 2002 11:16 AM
|I've emailed Maestro several times discussing what I'm looking for in a new road rocket. I told Mike that I'm a college student so I need a bike that will last for quite sometime - not just one season. I told him that I was 6'4" 260#. With all the information given - he continually says that I am a perfect match for a Colnago C40.
He says I should shy away from alloys and frames of multiconstruction (carbon with alloy heads, etc) because they will eventually part company. I just don't know what to do. I'm not going to be racing this bike or abusing it. First it will be used for training - to get this clyde in better shape - hopefully down to 220 or so. Then I might start racing.
I'm just really confused - because I seem to be getting a lot of conflicting advice. I just want a quality bike that's going to last. What should I do?
|C-40s are tough BUT||ColnagoFE|
Jul 23, 2002 11:20 AM
|I think at your weight you might be a bit too heavy for one. Plus the C-40 is one of the most expensive bikes made...even if you get it overseas. If I was a college student I'd just get something like a cannondale. what college student rides a c-40? man! by the way...not sure what maestro is talking about. i think he just wants to sell you a c-40.|
Jul 23, 2002 11:21 AM
|save your money and buy a good steel bike, like the Tommasini sold by Colorado cyclist. To buy a C40 as a first bike for someone your size is, in my opinion, ludicrous.|
|I know .......... But||magnum|
Jul 23, 2002 11:27 AM
|I know it's in fact stupid. Here's my thinking though. Why buy a moderately priced bike now. And then in a year or so buy something of the caliber of a C40 - you're out more money. Besides, I've ridden bikes all my life (just not road specific). I know I'll love it. It's just like the saying - Do it right the first time.
If not the C40 then what?
Jul 23, 2002 11:33 AM
|while the logic of doing it right the first time is enticing, my experience says to wait to but the dream bike for the following reasons:
-your size will change if you ride (YOu will lose weight)
-Your flexibility will change if you ride.
-Your desired type of riding will probably change. Maybe you'll want to race, or tour or do brevets, all of these affect your bike choice.
-Finally, you may not enjoy riding as much as you think.
Buy used (after you get a good sense of fit) You won't lose much when you resell & you'll learn a hell of alot.
|I know .......... But||flying|
Jul 23, 2002 1:52 PM
|"""If not the C40 then what? """
The Colnago MXL of course ;-)
|I agree - don't start with a C-40||klay|
Jul 23, 2002 11:35 AM
|A light weight bike that was supposedly designed for racing is not a good bike for a 260 lb guy just starting out. I know for a fact that you could get a complete custom bike made for someone your size for the price of that C40 frame alone.
Check out www.cramerotti.com. They seem to have good prices. Custom frames are the same price as their stock frames. They are in Canada so I think you gain a bit on the exchange rate.
Check out some other makers in the US too like www.anvilbikes.com (<--highly recommended but a long lead time), Strong Cycles (sorry I don't know the URL off hand), www.ti-cycles.com, etc.... I am sure these are all in your price range and can make you a bike that is appropriate for your beefy self.
|I agree - don't start with a C-40||magnum|
Jul 23, 2002 11:41 AM
|Well if I must start off small - what is a good budget to start myself off with - keep in mind I have nothing - no shoes, pedals, shorts, etc - All of which I know I need. Summer's getting close to over - and this is time I could be out ridding :) You catch the idea!!!
|I agree - don't start with a C-40||klay|
Jul 23, 2002 12:01 PM
|Any one of the places I listed could probably get you a frame for $1500-$2000 or so. Don' know what kind of components you want but I would suggest Campy Chorus with 32 spoke Open Pro rims. This is what my 220 lb self has been using for 3 years. $1500 or so.
Extras (ball park prices as I don't shop for these things that often)
Helmet: $100 for a stylin Giro Boreas and similar
Pedals: $50 - $150
Shorts: $45-$100 a pair maybe
Jerseys: $30, $40, $50 ish
Water bottles: $5 each
Bottle cage: $7 to $15 each
Spare tubes: $5 a piece
Patch Kit: dunno
Multi-tool: $25 maybe
Little saddle bag for spare tire, cell phone, tools: $15
Frame Pump: $30 ish
One more thing you will want to consider if you go whole hog on the first bike - you will only have one bike. What happens if bike number one gets trashed? What happens if you have it in the roof rack of your car and forget you have a carport? (yes, I did that) I would say get a moderately priced bike know (i.e not the C40) and save some money for upgrades later. As you ride more you may want to get a different frame, convert your first ride into a rain/commuting bike, up grade your components and/or have a back up bike. You will end up with more than one frame. You cannot avoid it.
|If it were me...............||Len J|
Jul 23, 2002 11:29 AM
|I think I'd do the following.
First thing I would do is get educated on fit. Try these sites:
Next, if I had the money to buy a C-40, and I wasn't experienced enough to know what I needed & I was your size I would pay to get a custom fitting. (A La Serotta). I would listen to the fitter, and compare it to what I learned in my other research.
I would also spend some time in Zinn Cycles web site http://www.zinncycles.com/
As he specializes in bikes for large riders.
It sounds to me like your gut is telling you that Maestro is pushing you to buy something that may not work, trust your gut, If he is not discussing other materials & options, he's probably trying to take advantage of you.
I would also try to talk to as many
|I think I have figured out my problem......... I think||magnum|
Jul 23, 2002 11:37 AM
|I'm just overeducated. hehe
I've tried those fit programs and all pretty much tell the same thing. They fit me as a 60cm C to Top, but as all riders over 6 feet tall will contest that Colorado and WrenchScience tend to size about 2 cm too small. I want an agressive ride. I sorta know what I'm looking for.
My main concern is - I don't want to buy something that I going to be unhappy with in a year or less - this goes for both buying a bike that someone is trying to push me or buying a cheaper bike that I KNOW could be better.
I'm almost 100% sure my local dealers don't have a serotta fit bike. I live in a rural area for the time being but I'm moving to the city during college and probably stay year round starting this fall. There are about 5 or 6 dealers up there - most carrying Cdale, Trek, Litespeed, schwinn, etc (big brands).
Am I wrong for wanting to buy a nice bike right off? It's not an elitest attitude or anything. I just don't think it's very smart to start off small or cheap sometimes.
|Depends on what you think is a bigger risk......||Len J|
Jul 23, 2002 11:48 AM
|Spending big bucks now on something that you may like & may fit your riding in a coule of years or...
Spending less now & working towards the perfect bike in a couple of years.
That being said, I would bet that the average term of ownership of a bike on this forum is less than 2 years. I think the same gene that makes us want to ride, makes us always looking for another bike.
If you have the money, follow your heart.
But at your size, I would get a bike designed for someone that big. Size does create different problems
|The thing is...||hayaku|
Jul 23, 2002 7:36 PM
|If you buy a C-40(or any bike that doesn't fit your needs) you will not only be unhappy in a year or less, but be out a lot of money which you could've used more wisely.
I also think that custom is your best option. You will get a frame which suits your needs and abilities, that is far more important than getting a bike that suits the needs and abilities of the European pro peleton. It can be a hard pill to swallow but high performance frames aren't suitable for most of us.
The best thing you can do for your own riding is to get a frame that suits your style. Frame weight is really not that important, not as important as most people will lead you to believe.
|I don't know if you're too big.||djg|
Jul 23, 2002 12:02 PM
|My own experience (albeit somewhat limited) in talking to Mike at Maestro is that he's a pretty knowledgeable guy. I wouldn't assume that a C40 is necessarily too fragile. If you want a second opinion, call Trialtir--the US distributor--and ask what they think of your weight and that bike (I wouldn't mention a GB purchase, necessarily). And whether it's too expensive or not is somewhat in the eyes (or wallet) of the beholder. For some reason, nobody is shocked when a college student drives by in a new $20K mustang, an expensive and not-particularly-good car, when basic auto transportation can be had for a fraction of the price; but almost everybody is shocked if a college student acquires a C40.
My own inclination would be to ride something less expensive until you have a better sense of what you're looking for in a bike. And I'm not saying that you should pay your dues, or waste your long-term investment, on something crappy. Suppose that, instead of the C40 you get an Ovalmaster, also by Colnago. The Ovalmaster is 6/4 Ti from head to tail and should be tough as nails. It is specifically designed for larger riders. You might love that bike forever. Certainly, you could race it. And if, after a year or so, you decided you wanted to move up to a C40, you could sell the Ovalmaster frame for a decent sum and move the parts over to whatever you then thought would be your dream frame. I don't know. If you can get more official encouragement on the C40, what the heck--go for it. But I'd test the waters first.
|plus a beginning racer will look like a total poser on a c-40||ColnagoFE|
Jul 23, 2002 12:16 PM
|not to mention you'll probably crash...and if it were me i'd cry when i heard that c-40 scraping against the ground in the local crit.|
|Thanks for the Response||magnum|
Jul 23, 2002 12:17 PM
|Thank you! You've been very helpful.... I don't want to be "that guy with the C40". I'm not breaking the bank buying a C40 persay. 2400 for the frame and Star fork from Maestro. I figured as a birthday present I could get all my compoents - so the total cost would be around 2800 that i would spend personally. But I don't want some crappy bike that's gonna break or get me called a poser. I don't know what to do. It just seems like this is a sport for little guys. Depressing..........
|400 for componets ?||PhatMatt|
Jul 23, 2002 12:35 PM
|What componets are you looking at for only 4bills? Shimano 105 are the only ones taht I know of for that little of money and that is not counting wheels, bars and saddle.|
|Wait just a minute...||kapalua|
Jul 23, 2002 12:41 PM
|Look here Magnum. The people above have some great points, and I agree...for the most part. However, I don't really care about what other people think about my equipment choices... (I do consider others' experiences though :)
If you're serious about getting into something and are committed to it, I don't think there's anything wrong with getting the best equipment you can buy to start off. If the C40 is appropriate for your size and requirements, then by all means, go with what you want.
So, who cares if someone calls you a poser...you're the one riding the bike of your choice; plus you'll be training and will eventually pass them anyway.
Just my 0.02 regarding equipment...
|Wait just a minute...||magnum|
Jul 23, 2002 12:47 PM
|I think that's the problem on this board. No one sees me as a committed rider and supporter of the sport/recreation. I know I'm younger than most here. All I can say is I have heart. I work hard in the summers to provide enough money to buy the things I want and to take my g/f out on dates.
I just don't see where me saving my money and trying to make a GOOD decision right off the bat is not the right thing to do.
|I made no personal judgement of you ....||klay|
Jul 23, 2002 1:11 PM
|... and your commitment to any endeavour.
I was trying to point out alternatives to the C40. Those alternatives are in no way bad bikes. In fact, many of those bikes are the ones that some folks aspire to. They are quality bikes that can be made to fit you and your current size. They cost less than the C40 and, IMO, they will be better bikes for you than the C40, regardless of your commitment and work ethics, period.
Secondly, as one poster mentioned that you will change as you ride. You will gain some flexibility. You will discover what saddle fits your butt, which handlebar fits your hands and what pedals/shoes you prefer. There is no way in hell you can predict that and make that decision right off the bat with little experience. You may want to look at this as an ongoing decision making and tweaking process, not a one time thing that you can just get out of the way and be done with.
|It all seems considerate and constructive advice to me...||elviento|
Jul 23, 2002 1:12 PM
|Commitment to a sport is not measurement by the "$" sign. You just have to deal with a few things:
1. You may hate the sport after riding for a few times.
2. You may damage the bike in a crash, and you may not be able to afford a replacement shortly. If you have a car, you know the expenses and costs is not just that $299 a month.
3. You do take a big risk riding a super light bike designed mostly for guys half your weight.
You just have to take these things into account. No body gets anything out of your decision whatsoever.
Jul 23, 2002 1:58 PM
|Look you tool. You ARENT a committed rider, you dont have the bike yet. You are just committed to weeks of asking about bikes. ( magnum "Simple Question - (hopefully???)" 7/17/02 12:01pm ) You ask if a C40 would hold your fat ass up and they said NO and yet you still argue.
Quit trolling these poor people. By the way, what happened to the 5500 you were going to get???
|Merckx MX Leader!||Justride|
Jul 23, 2002 12:33 PM
|Perfect steel bike for big rider that wants a quality bike that will last. Has some history and is a great ride. Many pro riders have praised this steed in past years as the very best steel they have ridden. It will be my next steel bike.|
|"Reason alone can never explain how the heart behaves"||dzrider|
Jul 23, 2002 12:37 PM
|What I hear in your postings is that you want a C-40 whether or not it's the best bike for you. It's a way cool bike and you'll be happy until it's time for a new one or a new hobby. Then you'll spring for a high end racing shell or mountaineering stuff or who knows what. At this point is clearly the wanting, not the riding, that matters.|
Jul 23, 2002 12:44 PM
|You obviously had trouble reading then. I clearly stated that I wanted a bike that will last. Simply to do it right the first time. How is that wants and not reality?
Forgive me for aspiring for quality goods. I do sincerly appologize.
As for the 400 dollar component issue - Like I said above my Bday is coming up - i can divide the components amongst the gifts and etc.
the 400 i was talking about was components I would buy such as - shoes, shorts, and a few other accessories......... sorry for my choice of wording - i could see how that could be confusing.
Jul 23, 2002 1:09 PM
|if by "components" you meant "accessories..." then where in this budget is a gruppo plus wheelset plus bars plus stem plus seatpost plus saddle? Count on another $1500 for that stuff, especially if you want Chorus or better given the frameset you are looking at.|
Jul 24, 2002 4:44 AM
|That makes perfect sense. You do understand taht the 2500 is just framd and fork only corrcect?|
|"Reason alone can never explain how the heart behaves"||AllisonHayes|
Jul 23, 2002 12:55 PM
|The line between pleasure and pain |
Can't be measured by means of the brain
Mere reason alone can never explain
How the heart behaves
-- "How the Heart Behaves",
Was (Not Was)
If the guy wants a C-40 then he should get a C-40. How many people dream of getting one but never do? He has done his research, he is getting good advice from Maestro. I don't buy the advice of those telling him to do something else:
i -your size will change if you ride (YOu will lose weight)
i -Your flexibility will change if you ride.
i -Your desired type of riding will probably change. Maybe you'll want to race, or tour or do brevets, all of these affect your bike choice.
i -Finally, you may not enjoy riding as much as you think.
i A light weight bike that was supposedly designed for racing is not a good bike for a 260 lb guy just starting out.
i If I had the money to buy a C-40, and I wasn't experienced enough to know what I needed & I was your size I would pay to get a custom fitting.
i not to mention you'll probably crash...and if it were me i'd cry when i heard that c-40 scraping against the ground in the local crit.
As kapalua says, "So, who cares if someone calls you a poser...you're the one riding the bike of your choice; plus you'll be training and will eventually pass them anyway."
What is the worse that can happen? He doesn't like it. OK, so sell it and get something else. But he will always be wondering, "Should I have gotten a C-40?"
Now go get the C-40 and kick butt (well in a few years, maybe.)
Follow your dreams, man! "Proceed from the dream outward." Anais Nin
|What is the worse that can happen?||elviento|
Jul 23, 2002 1:21 PM
|like going downhill at 50mph (as you know heavy people coast faster downhill) on a bike designed for folks around half your weight. That'd be a lot worse than liking it or not.
Allison, you missed the point. The point is weight, fit, durability, and function, not dream, style, poser, or money.
|So, does that mean he can only do 49mph on any other bike?||AllisonHayes|
Jul 23, 2002 1:51 PM
|Any "good" bike is going to coast nearly as fast. |
I would hope like hell that, if he is going to spend that kind of money, he would get a good fit. He has this problem on any bike. The open question to me is whether the c-40 can handle the weight. If it can, then I say go do it.
And, I also say, follow your dreams (if you can afford it).
No, I didn't miss the point at all; but I think you guys did.
(btw, did you say you are a proof reader? what kind of literature do you read. also, how did you manage to get home that one day when you worked all those hours? I had visions of you falling asleep on your bike.)
|This kid got an attitude problem.||elviento|
Jul 23, 2002 3:07 PM
|His CLAIMED main concern is durability and he wouldn't want to hear any advice on that. People are giving prudent advice and he starts crying "I am hurt", "the problem with this board is...", "I apologize for wanting to make things right the first time", etc. He also seems to think anything cheaper is not a worthy bike, while plenty of bikes at a reasonable price are excellent.
So go blow the cash, Shaq. Who cares? While you are at it, get yourself a DeRosa King and Merlin Cielo as well, you never know which is actually the best bike for you and it would be a shame not to do it right the first time.
(Allison, I work at a law firm, and when deadlines are close, riding does get difficult. So to me, 10pm-midnight is not unusually late for riding... But I do indulge myself once in a while and actually got the morning off for the first mountain stage;-).)
|This kid got an attitude problem.||AllisonHayes|
Jul 23, 2002 4:14 PM
|I think there is more than a little truth to what you say.
(be careful riding there cowboy)
|He asked for our advice||klay|
Jul 23, 2002 1:35 PM
|..and we gave it.
"If the guy wants a C-40 then he should get a C-40"
How about, "If the guy wants a quality bike then he should get a quality bike"
His plan to buy a C40 and your advice make absolutely no sense to me. Sounded to me like he wanted a quality bike that will last and is appropriate for his build and purpose. I don't think he is in this to fulfill a lust and a dream for a Colnago. Nor do I think he should make a decision based on what his heart is telling him. His ass might not be happy with the result. Your advice is what I would call bad advice.
Also good advice from Maestro?
"He says I should shy away from alloys and frames of multiconstruction (carbon with alloy heads, etc) because they will eventually part company.
What the hell does this mean? Bikes that are glued together will fall apart someday? In the same breath he is trying to sell him a carbon frame...
OK, I think I've said all I possibly can on this.
Enjoy the C40.
|Like a former girlfriend I had once said ...||pmf|
Jul 24, 2002 7:45 AM
|You're never dissatisfied with the best
But then, what the hell did she know, she dumped me!
|Shaq, get a DeRosa Vega w/ Campy Centeur and get rolling.||elviento|
Jul 23, 2002 12:59 PM
|Cheap (if you are considering C40 for a first road bike), and likely you won't find a pressing need to upgrade after a year or two, unless you are riding at a very high level.|
|Buy a $1500 bike, put 25c's on it, go ride. n/m||fracisco|
Jul 23, 2002 1:38 PM
|10 things to think about||yeah right|
Jul 23, 2002 2:02 PM
|1. when some shops think they can sell you the most expensive thing in that category, instead of getting good service from your LBS you pretty much end up with BS (and you're thinking of buying from someone who you can't go and punch in the face when it breaks?)
2. meet the kid at your school who races and has an old beater bike with a different components all on it and no money to upgrade, and then think about your 5k "investment" while he embarrasses you on every ride.
3. get passed by the 50 year old guy on the rusty peugot in tennis shoes, and then decide if your c-40 was the right bike, or if any bike makes that much difference.
4. crash your bike once and see how you feel about seeing ernesto's finest paint all along the pavement
5. think of how you might feel to come back to your dorm room and find your bike gone after you put out the word how nice it was, one too many times.
6. look forward to the snears of every serious recreational cyclist as they see another bloated carcass on a c-40, while they have bikes that cost less, are possibly lighter and more specific to their style of riding, and might be custom fitted to their bodies
7. think of how much you know on paper, about sizes and models and everything, and then realize how little you actually know from experience.
8. instead of worrying about upgrading in a year or two, assuming you stick with riding, imagine being 25 and not having anything to upgrade to because you've already got the best, and continually spending more looking for something "different".
9. imagine trying to do repairs on your bike and buggering a thread on your campy record headset or bottom bracket and think just how much you cost yourself.
10. i'm sure you've met a kid with a nice car who has no idea how to drive it, but his parents bought it for him because they had the money. he'll tell you it drives great, but how does he know, he's never had a '79 chevy wagon to compare it against. despite what someone might tell you, you have to pay your dues, not just "because" but because you need to learn valuable lessons from it, how to ride a road bike, how to train, how to work on it, how to work period, so that you can appriciate a light bike with good handling qualities and shifters that shift perfectly.
i'm not saying get a monster, but think steel, think ultegra, don't think colnago, and think about a used bike, think 2k MAX.
|Ditto,and how! nm||MXL02|
Jul 23, 2002 2:25 PM
Jul 24, 2002 5:06 AM
|I could hardly afford to buy food in college let alone a C-40.........|
|Go ahead with the C40.||Quack|
Jul 23, 2002 2:02 PM
|The frame strength is the least of your worries. Pro level riders 100 lbs. lighter will stress C40s more than you ever will. You obviously have it set in your mind and heart that you want the C40, so buy it. Put some tough-ass clydesdale wheels with tons of spokes on that C40 and ride the crap out of it. If the most lusted-after bike in the world makes you ride more and you have the $$$, go for it.
Personally, if you aren't particularly fast and will be frequently blown away by guys on low-end bikes, I would avoid the top-notch hardware to limit the poser factor until you quicken up. But that's just me, I always respect guys more that ride lesser hardware and can beat me.
|Why Not an Ovalmaster?||jtolleson|
Jul 23, 2002 2:10 PM
|If you want Colnago, and you've clearly got some $$, a beefy rider is tailor-made for the Ovalmaster.
That being said the advice you've gotten above is very rock solid, including the caveats about blowing your budget on your first road bike, when you don't know what your ultimate desires will be.
And just because a C40 is the priciest doesn't mean it is the best. I just finished my "money is (almost) no object" bike shopping last spring and the C40 was in the running... but not for long. But that's just me.
|I wondered the same thing.||AllisonHayes|
Jul 23, 2002 2:17 PM
|If he went to WrenchScience and went through their "fit" algorithm, they might provide some "advice" regarding the right kind of frame for his size and I would bet the Ovalmaster would be one of them.|
|Magnum, Look at the Litespeed||Lazywriter|
Jul 23, 2002 2:44 PM
|Ultimate. It is durable, very stiff and very fast. At your size, it is perfect as it is known to be one of the stiffest frames made of all the materials. Lifetime warranty which Colnago doesn't give (1 ridiculously crappy year warranty). Test ride this bike and I guarantee you will find it to be what you need. The C40 is a great bike, but one crash and scrape and it is all over. Titanium is much more durable and flex will not be an issue with the Ultimate. People calling you a poser will happen if you are on ANY NICE BIKE. Ride what you want, life is too short and your good years for cycling are even shorter. Trust me.|
|Magnum, Look at the Litespeed||pmf1|
Jul 24, 2002 6:37 AM
|I think you're wrong about the C-40 being any less crash worthy than the Ultimate. Carbon is just as tough as ti and both bikes can be trashed as easily. There is a big misperception that carbon bikes are more fragile than metallic bikes. |
FWIW, I have both a LS Ultimate (1999 model -- before the stupid carbon stays and integrated HS) and a C-40 (current B-Stay model). They are both great bikes. I'd recommend either one. The LS and C-40 are both very stiff. It comes down to if you like the ride of carbon or ti better. I think both have pros and cons. True, LS does have a better warranty. Then again, if anyone knew of a case where a C-40 broke, we'd surely hear about it. In the years I've been on this board, I've never heard of such a case.
|re: Is this Clydesdale tooo big for this bike???||ol|
Jul 23, 2002 9:01 PM
|Everybody talks about the durability of a C40 in a pro peleton, but all these pros weigh an average of 145 pounds and that's being generous. At your weight and size regardless whether you are going to strip 40 pounds I feel a 1.1 pound frame is way to light. I would go either custom steel or ti with serious reinforcement around the bottom bracket area. The fact of the matter is that you are lusting for a bike that's just not appropriate for you.|
|re: Is this Clydesdale tooo big for this bike???||pmf1|
Jul 24, 2002 6:40 AM
|I doubt very many people on this board can punish a frame to the extent that any pro can. 30-40 K miles per year and these guys crank on their bikes. How much torque do you think a sprinter puts on a frame?|
|Not any more torque than...||jtolleson|
Jul 24, 2002 9:07 AM
|a 210 lb rider smacking a pothole on a fast downhill. I'm no physicist but I can't believe that a 140-lb. pro abuses a frame like a 200+ lb. recreational rider... or at least I think that rider weight would influence risk of frame failure more than simply being small but strong.|
|re: Is this Clydesdale tooo big for this bike???||aliensporebomb|
Jul 24, 2002 2:44 AM
|Go for the Ovalmaster or the Litespeed. |
Ovalmaster would at least be a Colnago then and more suited to your weight.
TI would seem to be the thing to get - Litespeed, Serotta, the list goes on.
And be careful out there and ride like a mad thing.
|Might want to check out Seven as well||PhatMatt|
Jul 24, 2002 5:08 AM
This are suppose to be some of the best bikes built. All hand made and custom to your specs ... Why not look at them as well. I take a little offence to your comment of lesser bikes. I feel that Viner will stand up to your C-40 just fine. Just for the record I am 5 10 and I am down to 210. so I am not a light rider. JMO.
|Check these out||Dragon33|
Jul 24, 2002 6:20 AM
|Nice TI and very stiff, I was surprised that it was stiffer than my Litespeed. I bought it because I wanted something different and glad I did.
The web address is www.zermattbikes.com
|Check these out||PhatMatt|
Jul 24, 2002 10:56 AM
|Very nice. I like to be different aswell (hence the Viner). Alas some day when I grow up I will get my ti dream bike.