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Is Lance really getting booed, or is the press...(39 posts)
|Is Lance really getting booed, or is the press...||Fignons_ponytail|
Jul 22, 2002 4:36 AM
|making it a big deal? I've watched every stage so far and all I hear are cheers as he flies up the climbs. I've even really listened for any booing since the articles have come out and can't hear any. What's the deal? If they are booing him, why? Is it because the French riders suck so bad? The irony of it is that it's claimed that the fans call out "Dope" (French for doped) to Lance, yet they still love Virenque. Go figure...|
|re: Is Lance really getting booed, or is the press...||seyboro|
Jul 22, 2002 4:44 AM
|Nope, seems like he really is getting some heat from the French. I just read Jens Voigt's tour diary on a German website and he says the same thing, forecasting that Lance will answer them with another stellar ride. Let's hope so!
As for the "dope" calls, probably just echoes off the mountains from a few minutes earlier. Remember, the only thing the French hate more than Armstrong in yellow coming down the Champs-Elyssees is a German tank column.
|lots of laughs if Telekom were to take 123 nm||PhatMatt|
Jul 22, 2002 4:47 AM
|i thought the french welcomed german tank columns.(nm)||rufus|
Jul 22, 2002 6:42 AM
|re: Tall trees on the Champs Elysees||bigrider|
Jul 22, 2002 5:13 AM
|I heard the trees were planted so the Germans wouldn't get sunburned marching in to Paris.|
|Interview w/Lance re. fans: <i>an issue of class</i>||AllisonHayes|
Jul 22, 2002 5:37 AM
|Q: what was your impression of the fans on Mont Ventoux? |
LA: It's disappointing, to be honest with you. The people are not very sportsmanlike. Some of them...a boo is a lot louder than a cheer. If you have ten people cheering and one person booing, all you hear is the booing. But if I had a dollar for every time somebody yelled, "dopé, dopé," I'd be a rich man."
I don't particularly understand that mentality. I think it's an indication of their intelligence. But those are the things that I have to live with, and I'm not here to be friends with a bunch of people who stand on the side of the road that have had too much to drink, and want to yell "dopé!" I don't have to care. Nor will I care in three or four years when I'm sitting on the beach with my kids, having a cold beer. But don't come to the bike race in order to stand around and yell at cyclists. Stay at home.
I think it's an issue of class. Do you have class, or do you not have class? That's not the way a classy person acts.
|Blame the French?||jose_Tex_mex|
Jul 22, 2002 6:06 AM
|What evidence is there that the people who are booeing are French. There's a lot of people from other countries there...
Also, he seems to get a hero's welcome in the small towns and villages - where one would expect a higher % of French people to be. It's not until the mountains (lots of tourists) that the problems occur.
He's probably better off with it - he needs to get pissed off or be counted out in order to maximize.
I would suspect supporters of Pantani or moreso Ulrich for being jealous.
Don't blame the French...
|Blame the French?||mr_spin|
Jul 22, 2002 6:14 AM
|1. He's in France, which is largely populated by French people.
2. The insults are in French, which is widely spoken by French people.
3. If you spend any length of time in France, you pick up on their accents and can figure out where they are from, including foreigners speaking French.
I don't think it's too much of a stretch to conclude that these are French people hurling insults.
|You are the smartest man alive... Mr Maddison||TJP|
Jul 22, 2002 12:18 PM
|1) How insightful, I would not have guessed this.
2) I thought we were talking about booing - now you are translating words and determining accents. I am sure your average American is well able to differentiate the subtleties of dialects and francophones. Can you tell us what was said, where the person was from, and when it occurred or are you just talking @#$%.
I think you missed the point.
1) In Europe they whistle for disapproval - in America they boo.
2) You obviously have not been to Le Tour. Check out the stages where your boy is getting booed and see how many American, German, and Italian flags there are on the thousands of RV's parked along the road. The problems only occur where the foreigners are. Don't stereotype us all.
3) The French people overwhelminghly support Lance which is why he has not lashed out at them. He has slammed a few drunken idiots though.
I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
Jul 22, 2002 1:51 PM
|I'm not so smart, but I did live in France long enough to differentiate accents. I'm a little rusty now, but when I was there I could tell the difference between someone from Toulouse, someone from Cannes, someone from Brest, and someone from Paris. I can tell the difference between Swiss speaking French and Belgians speaking French.
If someone were booing me, I am fairly certain I could identify them as French or not.
In another classic case of misterpretation, you seem to think that I am insulting you or your people (whoever they are). Not at all. I'm just stating the facts. If Lance says they were French, I accept that they were French because 1) he was in France, 2) they were speaking French, and 3) Lance has lived in France long enough to be able to tell.
Hey, you weren't the guy sans pantalons yesterday, were you?
|You can tell by their accent...||AllisonHayes|
Jul 22, 2002 6:18 AM
|They rush into zee roade and indulge in an orgy yelling, "dope, dope." while half drunk on sour wine and cognac. |
Is thees so bad, you ask? Mais non! You see, it is so verry french, n'est pas?
|I noticed the booing Sunday.||Mike P|
Jul 22, 2002 6:24 AM
|It was very loud booing just as Lance was around 4 or 5 KM to the summit of Mont Ventoux. I really was surprised by it. I had not heard any booing prior to Sunday. Perhaps a little creative sound dubbing on the part of OLN has prevented us from hearing it before. I don't know.
And I just don't understand how anyone can do it. The way I look at it is, if someone or some team is capable of winning a fair competition against the person or team I consider "The Best", then I must respect the winner. Booing the winner is really showing disrespect for the winner and to those who lost to the winner. If you think the winner sucks, you must think your favorite really sucks.
Perhaps those booing do not really comprehend what they are doing and are just venting frustration of being beaten again.
|The French suck.||ohmk1|
Jul 22, 2002 6:37 AM
|They got one thing going for them, and it's this bike race. Cheese eating fxxkheads.
I'm really not an angry person-just a low cholesterol count.
P.S. boycott Mavic, Look, or anything made by the ]cheese eaters
|A Fine Example of Maturity||Poulidor|
Jul 22, 2002 7:02 AM
|I have to say that some of the anti-French comments made on this board do not reflect well on either the intelligence or the maturity of the posters. Just how many of you eloquent sages have ever left the borders of the U.S.?|
|Robin Williams' recent live standup act covered the French well||Tig|
Jul 22, 2002 7:37 AM
|"Go away, Americans... [etc., etc... in a French accent] Oh, zee Germans are coming! Helloooo, Americans! We love you!!!"
Better yet, from the movie "Braveheart", Longshanks: "The problem with France... is that it is full of Frenchmen."
I'm half French, half English. I've been to France. I've met many, many French people. Some I like, many are a-holes. I am not a sage.
|I believe the quote was directed at Scotland not France||Aztec|
Jul 22, 2002 7:54 AM
|"The problem with Scotland is that it's full of Scots."|
|You are correct. My prejudice has been exposed! -nm||Tig|
Jul 22, 2002 12:38 PM
|Enough with the jingoism||Poulidor|
Jul 22, 2002 7:56 AM
|I am half American and half French and I am not trying to defend the idiots who jeered at Lance. They are fools. What I take exception to is this French bashing because of the behavior of some drunken a-holes. The truth is that Lance is very popular with the majority of the French. One can disagree with the actions of those that jeered Lance, but that doesn't give you permission to engage in jingoist insults that are every bit as idiotic as the things that were yelled at Lance.|
|Allez, Pou-Pou, allez!! (nm)||RhodyRider|
Jul 22, 2002 8:45 AM
|Enough with the jingoism||ohmk1|
Jul 22, 2002 9:11 AM
|First off, as your American half should know, we don't need permission of any kind to voice our opinions.
The French have always sucked. Their suckiness didn't start this past weekend with their jeering.
|Enough with the jingoism||Poulidor|
Jul 22, 2002 10:24 AM
|How could I possibly compete with such rapier-like wit? "Their suckiness did'nt start this past weekend with their jeering" An incredible quote from a world-class intellect.|
|Enough with the jingoism||ohmk1|
Jul 22, 2002 11:04 AM
|You probably can't compete.
By the way, your use of the wird "jingoism," is a fine example of your intellectual superiority.
|It is only "jingoism" to someone who doesn't agree. -'nuff said||Tig|
Jul 22, 2002 12:33 PM
|This guy sounds like a by-product of failing American schools||jose_Tex_mex|
Jul 22, 2002 4:30 PM
This ohmk1 simpleton obviously does not know much about American history. It's not his fault - just the by-product of a failing American school system. He probably would not be able to find France on a map of France,Spain, and Portugal anyhow.
Any American who has studied history knows that without the support of the French the English would have eventually beaten the colonies. If memory serves me correctly, the British are the only ones to ever invade the US. Furthermore, during our Civil War they sought to fracture the Union by granting Beligerent Status to the south - one step away from recognizing them as a seperate country. Why then is there so much anomosity towards the French?
I think the problem is that the French are as proud a nation as Americans. Also, unlike the British at the end of WW2 the French sought to seperate themselves from the US in order to keep their nation from becoming another American state.
I personally love France. If we had a voting system like yours (more democratic as it's a majority system and not plurality) we would not have had so much drama during the last election.
As for ohmk1, please cut him some slack. He's probably some overworked, underpaid, psuedo-Patriot who does not have a 30 hour work week and weeks off during the summer. Probably never been out of whatever state he exists in.
As for stupidity - plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose - it's something we must live with.
|Me too - and not only that...||rideslikeagirl|
Jul 22, 2002 7:11 AM
|But someone 'shot' Lance with water. Not the splashing that some people do to cool them off, but a deliberate blast of the water bottle aimed at his side as he rode past.
I swear, these riders must get some sort of mental-training on how to deal with these crowds!
|It's not ALL French and it's not ALL Americans||Me Dot Org|
Jul 22, 2002 7:58 AM
|Yes, there are some French giving Lance a hard time. Some are also cheering.
When Hank Aaron was approaching Babe Ruth's home run record, Americans sent death threats to him, because he was a black man about to break a white man's record.
People will cheer Virenque (as well they should, for I'm sure he's getting tested regularly) and accuse Lance of being a doper (even though he's never had a positive test) because of nationalism, tribablism, whatever you want to call it.
Let's say that Lance wins this year's tour (not an unrealistic prospect right now). What do you think will be yelled at Lance in the Pyrenees next year as he attempts to tie Indurain's 5 consecutive tour victories?
Sometimes I think they ought to take the YAHOO logo off of the USPS helmets and put it on the foreheads of some of the fans, from ALL countries, who are not gracious enough to applaud great effort and character.
Jul 22, 2002 8:23 AM
Jul 22, 2002 9:35 AM
|I'm in with Pou-Pou on this, however, it is oh-so-much-fun to be politically incorrect.
And just to top it off: How can you tell a French airplane? It's got hair under the wings. Oh my goodness me, Phil!!
Jul 22, 2002 9:56 AM
|americans are no better||ishmael|
Jul 22, 2002 9:36 AM
|Go to a basketball game or just about any other sport and the fans boo the opposition. In a hockey game they cheer when the opposition is getting beaten to a pulp, certainly unsporsmanlike. At road races these hecklers are venting their strong (and often drunk) emotions in a healthy manner. They arent interfering. It's just words, The Once team seem to be letting it out in the press and Pantani did it as well. We should commend them on not truely interfering. I wouldnt yell negative things at the cyclists, but I'm not as big a fan as others. Armstrong says one in ten of the roadside people were hecklers, seems about what we would have here in the US. Actually in the US we dont know enough to heckle. Last year, on the last lap of the Manayunk Core States race everyone around me was yelling "go sixers"(we were in the finals)|
|Let's generalize about Philly, then||TypeOne|
Jul 22, 2002 11:23 AM
|Aren't these the fans who booed Santa at an Eagles game, booed little kids at a between-inning Easter egg hunt at a Phillies game, and cheered when Cowboys' receiver Michael Irvin laid motionless on the field after a neck injury? I won't try to type the entire city for these actions, though.
In the recent NHL playoffs at a rink in the US, fans booed the playing of the Canadian naional anthem. I can't remember the city-- Detroit, maybe?
I have read articles that theorize that years of watching and yelling at the tv have blurred some distinctions between acceptable and unruly behavior when the person sees the event live. That doesn't explain why TDF spectators, who have always had access to the riders, are rude.
But let me say this--if this event took place in the US, some drunk would have hauled off and tackled Beloki off the bike. Just like soccer moms slugging the referee at her 10-yr old's match.
Btw, I'm American.
|If they understood Lance||DougSloan|
Jul 22, 2002 9:52 AM
|...they would probably realize that that sort of thing will only make him ride harder. You can't get this guy down. He only reacts more strongly to adversity.
So, I say "boo away."
|Wow, this is SO hard to believe...||Gator|
Jul 22, 2002 10:25 AM
|...because it ever happens in any other country or with any other sport. English and South American soccer fans never misbehave. There's never problems when the Lakers lose. Or win, for that matter. I've never seen any poor sportsmanship at an NFL game; I guess those fat, drunk guys I see rolling down the bleachers only appear to be beating the crap out of each other.
To me, the surprise is that that many people with as little supervision as they have behave as well as they do. Given the heat, the booze and the national prides at stake, I find it astonishing that no one has run out of the crowd to punch Lance in the face.
So, if anything, I think the French should be commended for handling their wine buzz fairly well.
|It takes years of dedicated training.....||Poulidor|
Jul 22, 2002 10:28 AM
Jul 22, 2002 10:39 AM
|As Eddy Merckx was riding towards a sixth Tour victory, a French fan punched him in the ribs on the stage to Le Puy de Dome. He was wearing yellow at the time, but Merckx ended up losing the race. The winner, Bernard Thevenet, won by riding a better race, but getting punched by a fan on steep climb can't help your morale.|
|have you ever been to Yankee Stadium?||velocity|
Jul 22, 2002 10:27 AM
|I agree with Poulidor, Ishmael... Mostly I've seen fans on the side of the road cheering all of the riders. But knuckleheads exist in every society.
Let's not use this as a convenient issue with which to attack the French. I mean, come on, been to a baseball, basketball or football game lately? Taunting the "other team's" great player (rider) sucks but it happens all the time at American sporting events. So-called hometown fans even boo, curse, name call their OWN slumping players unmercifully. Man, Giambi was booed at Yankee Stadium very early in the season when he wasn't producing.
If the US had a Grand Tour, and Americans gave a sh*t about it, you think there wouldn't be a decent share of Americans booing Lance's rivals, for instance? And, even though I'm a huge fan of Lance, what's this "Lance vs. the World" garbage about?
|There are idiots to be found everywhere.||look271|
Jul 22, 2002 11:45 AM
|Regardless of race, age, country or creed. If Lance were in the US, there would be some booes. If he were in Russia, there would be booes. Go to a highschool basketball, football, or soccer game. No boos? I don't think so. Let's just accept that fact and stop dissing a group of people just because a few (1 in 10 as Lance said?) are jerks.|
|Enjoying a cool beer||TypeOne|
Jul 22, 2002 11:51 AM
|Lance's comment that he won't care in a few years while he enjoys a cool beer on the beach reminds me of the cliche: "laughing all the way to the bank."
A friend told me this was was coined by Liberace (!) on his old television show. He discussed his critics on the air, and said, "My brother George and I had quite a laugh about it. In fact, we were laughing all the way to the bank."
Can anyone confirm this??
|Lance is has not always been Mr. Humility||jose_Tex_mex|
Jul 22, 2002 4:37 PM
|I am very proud of Lance as a fellow American. However, he should really toughen up and lose the "they're making fun of me attitude."
For those of you who may have met and/or raced with Lance during his early years you probably know that he was not exactly Mr. Humility. He's quite humble now. However, I think he of all people realizes it's just part of the game.