|What happens when you run a red light at 2am||kenyee|
Jul 5, 2002 6:28 AM
Reported by the paper whose truck ran over the courier...
|Saw that on the news....||PatM|
Jul 5, 2002 6:48 AM
|Didn't hear how it happened thanks for the info, I work about 1/2 mile from that intersection and go through it every day. Wonder what he was doing out at 3AM ?|
|So now being out in the AM is suspicious?||EJC|
Jul 5, 2002 7:07 AM
|Seriously...why is it a question of "I wonder what he was doing out at 3am?"
Is the hysteria in the USA such that now, any behaviour which devaites from the perceived norm is considered criminal or needs closer scrutiny?
I believe you Yanks had a Senator a few years back who had the same mentality. I think, if my Canadian brain remebers properly, his name was McCarthy...ring any witch-hunting bells?
|I don't think that's anything new...||TJeanloz|
Jul 5, 2002 7:21 AM
|I think Americans have always thought being out in the early hours of the morning was suspicious behaviour. It's nothing new. It has to do with our puritanical values...|
|So now being out in the AM is suspicious?||PatM|
Jul 5, 2002 7:43 AM
|No not at all, I guess I was just curious as to what he was doing. From what I saw on the news, the bike had no lights at least what was left of it, that intersection is a nightmare pretty much most of the time, I come through there at about 6:30 AM and you have people just driving every which way. I am not placing blame or saying that anyone is at fault but come on if your going to blow through a red light at 3AM at least slow down and look around a bit. I am not witch hunting or looking for criminal behavior at all. In fact in this area it wouldn't suprise me in the least if he was being chased by someone. Its not exactly the best area of Boston and I guess that would be one reason to ride fast through red lights at 3am.
I guess my point is that if he was a messenger in Boston, and knows the area - that route would be on his way to work he should have known better.
I ride every morning at 4AM, have lights front and rear, wear high vis clothing and still am ultra paranoid and don't blow through red lights, because around here someone else could be doing the same thing.
PS what do you think the M in PatM stands for ? ;^)
|LOL at the "M"!!!||EJC|
Jul 5, 2002 7:59 AM
|Get what you deserve NM||Lowend|
Jul 5, 2002 6:50 AM
|Running a red-light = getting put in Hospital?||EJC|
Jul 5, 2002 7:09 AM
|Jesus tap dancing Christ, what the hell kind of menatlity is that?
Oh, wait a minute, I just saw your moniker, and that answers my question...the mentality expressed is definately "Lowend".
|Lucky for him, it was right next to the Hospital...||Lowend|
Jul 5, 2002 7:15 AM
|Would have took him a few seconds to slow down look and WAIT for the TRUCK to go by. You would think the streets are empty at 2am, but that is just careless.|
|I've gotta agree with lowend on this one........||Dave Hickey|
Jul 5, 2002 7:34 AM
|I'm really sorry the guy got put in the hospital but we cyclists have to take responsibility for our own actions. This guy ran a red light. I hope he recovers but if the facts are correct, the cyclist is clearly at fault.|
|No no Dave, I agree, however...||EJC|
Jul 5, 2002 7:37 AM
|...it is a bit extreme to say that a traffic infraction equates to someone deserving to be put in hospital. I absolutely agree that the cyclist was at fault and that as cyclists we have a responsibility to obey traffic laws, BUT how does running a red-light equal a punishment or 'just-desert' of bodily harm? THAT is the sentiment I strongly disagree to.
It is like putting a juvenile on trial as an adult. They are NOT adults and shouldn't be triied as such...
|Take responsibily for your actions...||Lowend|
Jul 5, 2002 7:55 AM
|What if he hit another cyclist or pedestrian going thru that light instead of a truck and they both ended up in the hospital. He did something foolish and got hurt. GOOD.
As for juvenile being tried as adults. If a forteen year old commits murder, he should be tried as an adult. He is old enough to know murder is wrong. Old enough to commit adult crimes than you you are old enough to do adult time.
|so if you do something foolish...||EJC|
Jul 5, 2002 8:02 AM
|...you deserve to get hurt? Sounds intelligent, well-thought out and completely rational...(sarcasm meant and absolutely implied.)
As for the juvenile/adult thing, if you are not smart enough or intelligent enough to recognize the difference between the two, you are not rational and do not desevre to be debated with.
|Sorry to attempt to battle with your knowledge Oh Great one. NM||Lowend|
Jul 5, 2002 8:08 AM
|I think you had a type-O you mean "lack of knowledge"..nm||K-Man|
Jul 5, 2002 11:38 AM
|Justice: an eye for an eye mentality....?||AllisonHayes|
Jul 5, 2002 8:32 AM
|OK, so your kid steals something from a store, should we cut his hand off? Or, worse, he doesn't look while crossing the street, what should be his punishment?
What do you and Lowend mean by, "take responsibility for our own actions?" So what if he was at fault; so what if he was irresponsible; so what if it was bad judgement? We have all guilty of that at some time, it is just that we didn't have something terrible happen to us.
Show some compassion--it doesn't matter a bit that he was at fault. You can't change what happened to him--you can only learn from it.
|at last...a lone wave of sanity...||EJC|
Jul 5, 2002 8:54 AM
|...in a sea of ignorance and lunacy...
Great points all, especially about someone's child having its precious widdle hand removed for nicking a candy-bar!!!
It is amazing how unjust "just" punishments have become (yes, again this is a sentiment directed towards 'Murricans - the Yank interpretaionsa of the Lex Teliconous (spl?) portion of the Bible-myths are absolutely hysterical, and quite wrong...)
|Oh please............................||Dave Hickey|
Jul 5, 2002 9:01 AM
|Why are you using a child as an example? What is wrong with an ADULT taking responsiblity for their own actions? I'm sorry, but if I do something stupid or use poor judgement, I'll deal with the consequences.|
|and may people show you all the compassion||AllisonHayes|
Jul 5, 2002 9:10 AM
|you so justly deserve...|
|fine, leave the child out of it...||EJC|
Jul 5, 2002 9:12 AM
|...are you saying that you feel it is "just" for you to be put in hospital for a momentary lapse of judgement vis-a-vis a traffic screw-up, loosing concentration for two seconds while cycling, or coming around a blind corner on your bicycle (on the wrong side of a path) only to be confronted with some sort of barrier which will cause great bodily harm? Is this 'just' due to your ignorance or bad-judgement?
Or how about if it is YOU who nicks a candy-bar? You stole, we had better lock you up for fifty years. Is that just?
You sanctimonious 'lock-em-up-hang'emhigh-let-Gawd-sort-em-out" types are an indication of the endemic attitudes of alleged justice in the good ol' God fearin' US of A that cause the rest of the world to look at you and go "We sure are glad we are not them".
|fine, leave the child out of it...||NJRoad|
Jul 5, 2002 9:24 AM
|I don't want to be argumentative but I don't think I've ever had the oppurtunity to ask someone this...If the rest of the world hates us so much, why do we have so many immigrants? I've run into Ex-Pats from all over the world? If we're so horrible then why?
As far as punshiment, breaking the rules of the soceity you live in, even your example of something as frivolous as a candy bar shows a disdain for that soceity. Admittitedly I have broken rules and I weigh the punshiment vs. crime. If the penalty for speeding was life inprisonement you could bet there would be a wood block under the accelerator pedal preventing me from exceding 65MPH
|Economist, 2002 -||EJC|
Jul 5, 2002 11:47 AM
|according to a published study, in the Economist magazine (I believe it was April's edition - 2002) of all North American cities, Toronto has the highest number of immigrants coming into it, at approx. 100,200/year.
LA was second at 80,000.
NY at 72,000.
Then Vancouver in 4th at 60,000
Even without these stats, proportionally (in the last decade) more immigrants have been going to Canada vs. the USofA. That doesn't even account for the number of immigrants that want to go to Western European Nations, or (in less immigrant friendly) nations of New Zealand and Australia.
|Economist, 2002 -||Ted|
Jul 5, 2002 11:56 AM
|Thats beacuse of our blasted welfare system. They know if they come here my hard earned dollars will support them.
Now if they had to be here for a year before getting our health care and welfare ... betcha they wouldn't come.
I believe in Canada's system. I just hate seeing people take advantage of it.
|I hear you Ted...||EJC|
Jul 5, 2002 12:02 PM
|...I'm a Canuck myself, but I believe in our system (although I am a displaced Canuck living in the land of King George, WWF, Truck-Pulls, and Aerosol Cheese - known as the USofA). I know some immigrants do take advantage of our welfare system but given where some of them come from, I find I have a hard time placing any blame of them. BUT, I have no problem in paying my fair share to Revenue Canada and making sure we at least HAVE a system.
I do a lot of Yank bashing, but there are some wonderful things about America. The problem comes that most Americans have an mis-placed sense of entitlement, or that at some point America has either (1) saved the world or (2) owns the world. As the joke goes, America would be a wonderful place if it weren't for one thing...all the damn Americans...
|I hear you Ted...||NJRoad|
Jul 8, 2002 4:12 AM
|I'm not sure if you'll see this, I wasn't on the board all weekend, much too nice to be inside.
If we are so rotten why are you here? That question was not answered in your reply.
|All I'm saying is.........................||Dave Hickey|
Jul 5, 2002 9:34 AM
|If I do have a momentary lapse of judgment or make a bad decision, I have nobody to blame but myself. As for lacking compassion, if you or Allision read my original reply, I said I hope he recovers and that I was sorry he's in the hospital.
Your last paragraph is what really amazes me.
"You sanctimonious 'lock-em-up-hang'emhigh-let-Gawd-sort-em-out" types are an indication of the endemic attitudes of alleged justice in the good ol' God fearin' US of A that cause the rest of the world to look at you and go "We sure are glad we are not them".
Why are you trying to put your political beliefs into this discussion? The only statement I've made is "people should be responsible for their own actions". Unless I'm missing something, there is nothing in that statement that suggests my religious views, political views, or even my nationality.
|All I'm saying is.........................||AllisonHayes|
Jul 5, 2002 9:46 AM
|Here is what Lowend said:
i Get what you deserve:
Here is what you said:
i I've gotta agree with Lowend on this one
i I'm really sorry the guy got put in the hospital but we cyclists have to take responsibility for our own actions. This guy ran a red light. I hope he recovers but if the facts are correct, the cyclist is clearly at fault.
Then you are also saying the guy got what he deserved. Nobody deserves that, regardless of whatever kind of poor judgement they exercised.
Are you still saying he got what he deserved?
|Well said, Dave....||bnlkid|
Jul 5, 2002 9:51 AM
|I feel you showed compassion in your reply. Not sure why others didn't. Sounds like a debate wants to be waged, when there really doesn't need to be one. The problem this country faces, Allison, is the lack of responsibility that individuals have. And it is apologists that allow them to not have ANY responsibility. I can just see someone saying "Oh, it was 2 in the morning, he didn't know what he was doing. It's not the cyclists fault the truck was obeying traffic laws and the cyclist wasn't." It is unfortunate the cyclist was hurt in this accident, and I hope he recovers. However, the accident was preventable, and that is where some of the lack of compassion comes from.
As far as being tried as an adult in this country, it should be all or nothing. Either a person comitted an act as an adult or they didn't. I think it is exteremely hypocritical for our society to try a 14 year old as an adult for murder, because they should have known better, but then to make it a crime for an adult to have a sexual relationship with a 14 year old because that 14 year old didn't know any better. I'm sure that is going ire quite a few people, but my point is you are either an adult or your not. There shouldn't be any picking and choosing.
|My last post on this topic (as the crowd jeers)||AllisonHayes|
Jul 5, 2002 10:04 AM
|This is simple: no cyclist or individual "deserves" to be hit, regardless of poor judgement. Period! And for anyone to say they do shows a lack of compassion for another cyclist. It has nothing whatsoever with being an apologist nor with NOT taking responsibility. It does have a lot to do with ATTITUDE and I called both Dave and Lowend on that.
(more jeering and whistles--get her off her soap box the hard core roadies rant as they throw their waterbottles...Allison ducks and haughtily leaves, tossing her hair back reflexively with a slight flick of her wrist as she is known to do when peeved.)
|Im not sure you and Dave we're talking about the same thing.||collinsc|
Jul 5, 2002 10:36 AM
|No, nobody "deserves" to get hit by a car. But actions have consequences, and this action has an incredibly obvious consequence of getting squashed.
What do you think will happen when youre in an intersection at a time youre not supposed to be? Well, you will get hit. Its a really easy step in judgement that the messenger skipped.
If you wave your hand around in front of an alligator, I should hope you expect to bleed. Nothing that happened to that messenger was "unfair". The situation could have easily been prevented if not for his ignoring of the possibilities of the consequences of his actions.
|well said (nm)||Jekyll|
Jul 5, 2002 10:39 AM
Jul 5, 2002 11:38 AM
|I'm surprised I wasn't accused of having no compassion for my initial subject line :-)
The post was to show a real-life case of what *could* happen if you were to run a red light, as this is discussed often enough in this forum.
I'm also sad the guy is in a hospital, but it's not unexpected (heck, even people doing endos by hitting a pothole can get you a broken collar bone), particularly since he didn't seem to have lights on his bike. Drivers sometimes get broken bones w/ low speed traffic accidents where everyone is in *cars*. Given this high possibility of serious harm, it truly surprises me that cyclists run red lights as much as they do.
I'd applaud the paper for reporting this since it will give cyclists more awareness of the dangers of running red lights and more awareness to drivers that there are cyclists (albeit nutty for running reds) on the road.
|If you play with fire.......||K-Man|
Jul 5, 2002 11:42 AM
|a person is smart enought to know that if your on a bike and run a redlight in the city you are taking the chance of getting hit....and if you get hit, its going to be bad.
Hey my 5 year old is smart enought to know not to play in the street because she could get hit by a car.......enough said!
|No, pure stupidity put him in the hospital!||K-Man|
Jul 5, 2002 11:36 AM
|come on! What if the truck driver ran the red light and killed the guy on the bike?
|What he deserved was||Mel Erickson|
Jul 5, 2002 1:50 PM
|a ticket and a fine. What he got was something worse.|
|WOW!!! nm||Mike P|
Jul 5, 2002 11:20 AM
|re: What happens when you run a red light at 2am||tkohn|
Jul 5, 2002 12:09 PM
|I hate to say it but, I live, ride, and drive in Boston and I have seen so many cyclists do really dumb and careless things while riding. Stoplights and stop signs exist for a reason and everyone needs to obey them. Just yesterday I saw some jackass with full panniers come off the right shoulder to the centerline and dart through a red light on St. Paul in Brookline just barely (by inches)missing the father of a father and young son riding their bikes properly through the green.
I believe that riders should have not just rear blinking but front lights also. I can think of many times I have seen riders almost hit and a few times actually get hit because they were hard to see coming up from the back and someone turns in front of them.
We need to all stay aware and no matter how nice your helmet is, it doesn't make us invulnerable.