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Can someone explain Dedacciai steel?(13 posts)

Can someone explain Dedacciai steel?ET
Jun 26, 2002 11:51 AM
I understand enough about Reynolds 853 and Columbus Foco, but how and where does Dedacciai steel fit in? Terms like SAT 14.5 and EOM 16.5? People talk less about Dedacciai, but companies like Ciocc and Pegoretti use it; I just want a feel for how its quality steel compares to the others Note: I'm interested only in steel, not (yuck!) aluminum.
re: Can someone explain Dedacciai steel?Sintesi
Jun 26, 2002 12:16 PM
Ask and ye shall receive.

http://www.strongracing.com/frames/tubing/tubing_specs.html
OK, that helps, but...ET
Jun 26, 2002 12:40 PM
can't he say anything bad about any of them? :-) Based on the description, 16.5 is not an all-purpose bike by any means, so that helps. No mention of 14.5 there, though.

Can anyone here give their input as to how the Ded steels compare to 853 and Foco? I'm not lookng for technical differences so much as expert opinions (e.g. "853 blows them all away in stiffness and comfort and is only ounces heavier" or whatever).
Well, you may be looking for a storydjg
Jun 26, 2002 1:33 PM
that cannot truthfully be told.

The three major suppliers of steel bicycle tubesets--Reynolds, Deda, and Columbus each have some pretty good products to offer. But the "blows them all away in stiffness and comfort and is only ounces heavier" label cannot really be applied to any of them. The various labels refer to particular alloy/treatment packages, and in many cases offer mix-and-match possibilities viz., eg., tubing diameter. 853 is a pretty up-to-date modern, air-hardened tubing, but it doesn't just come in one weight--even for a given sized frame. And it doesn't just build up into a frame that feels one particular way. Because it is stronger than, say, the old Rynolds 531, it can (and is) used to make thinner walled (and consequently lighter) tubes and framesets. In standard configurations, slightly larger diameter tubes will provide a somewhat stiffer frame than familiar from 531 days. But how the thing will ride depends on many choices that are still left up to the builder even after he has settled on 853 (or whatever). (Not to mention things that have nothing to do with the frame.) EOM 16.5 is very strong, and can be built into very light (at least for steel) framesets, but the ride will vary according to design choices available within the 16.5 offerings. The technical differences may be the best you can do in many cases, before you start asking about particular bikes/designs.
OK, that helps, but...NJRoad
Jun 26, 2002 1:38 PM
What could possibly be bad about any frame that a builder has gone through the time and expense to design around any of these high end tubesets except that maybe they don't work for YOU specifically?

Here is were a button should be available to enter the standard RBR reply to 80% of the questions...get out to a few shops that have bikes made of different materials from different builders and ride EVERYTHING in your price range that you can get your ass on the saddle of.

Only then will you know what blows what away.
I have a Pegoretti Marcelo, made of EOM 16.5, and I would saybill
Jun 26, 2002 2:09 PM
that it IS an all-purpose bike. It's an all-purpose road bike, as opposed to a touring bike or crossbike or something. It's a very comfortable all-day ride (took it on the AIDSRide; can't imagine enjoying the ride as much on anything else) that I would say is not specifically designed to be a climber or a sprinter (whatever that may be) or a crit bike in particular but could do all of those things handily. I can tell you that I very slightly dinged the top tube with a very slight drop of a little ol' plastic tape measure, so you have to figure that it's not as strong as an old Schwinn or something, but you also have to figure that the top tube is one of the thinnest tubes you're going to encounter on the whole bike.
More people are using it (including DeRosa, I think Pinarello, some others), which doesn't necessarily make it a good idea, I guess, but it says SOMETHING.
I have a Pegoretti Marcelo, made of EOM 16.5, and I would sayNJRoad
Jun 26, 2002 2:41 PM
That has less to do with the alloy and more to do with the thickness the builder had the tubing drawn to. The strength of some alloys allows the builder to draw thinner tubing sections.
who do we believe, you or Strong? :-)ET
Jun 27, 2002 3:59 AM
I hate to say this, Bill, but you have no choice but to order yet another custom Pegoretti, this time 14.5. As with the last time, keep us informed as to the fascinating ordering process. :-)
I just think that the Strong information may be a little dated,bill
Jun 27, 2002 7:48 AM
that's all. I don't believe that the web page with this information has changed in quite awhile, and I think that the techniques and technology may have caught up a bit.
As for the ordering process, I don't recall sharing any of it until after the bike was built, and, as I recall, only in response to inquiries about experiences buying online (I may have allowed myself one "it's built!", where I described the wait; I don't really recall).
Geez, ET, you make me sound like a . . . I don't know what. I wasn't fascinated by it; I don't know why you would be.
A few commentsNessism
Jun 26, 2002 12:46 PM
Dedacciai changed the name of their tubesets so that Zero is now called SAT14.5 and ZeroUno is COM12.5, Good stuff either way.

Ed
Can someone explain how to pronounce it? (nm)steve-z
Jun 26, 2002 1:00 PM
did-ya-t(r)y ... very hard ? :-) NMSpirito
Jun 26, 2002 2:31 PM
I have a SAT 14.5 customboneman
Jun 26, 2002 1:28 PM
Simply put and without the technical side, SAT 14.5 is similar in butting, weight and strength to Foco while EOM 16.5 is akin to UltraFoco. My personal opinion is that that UltraFoco and 16.5 are probably not your first choice if you're not careful with your frame due to the wall thickness in the unbutted sections being very thin. I'm not saying don't get it but to be aware that it can be easily dented.

I had the choice of the two aforementioned tubesets as well as Foco and SAT 14.5 and ended up going with the SAT 14.5 as I liked the shapes available for the DT and TT(similar shapes also available in Foco as well), for something different and while careful with my frame, just didn't want to be concerned about dents and the like. The builder was Corrado in Liverpool, UK and I was able to pick up the various tubes in each tubset and play with them. Not exactly a quantitative decision but a subjective one given that their comparable specification in strength and weight. You'd be surprised the noticeable difference in weight between tubes of a comparable length and diameter from each respective tubeset.

I'm a light rider and the 853 was judged by the builder to be too much steel for my needs and build. Given that I no longer race and already have a Vortex, he suggested going with either the Foco or the SAT 14.5 as they were more practical for everyday riding. He was right and out of the three custom steel frames I own, he's the one who best dialed in my requested ride characteristics and fit.

IMHO, if you're really going for custom steel, find a local builder who can measure you in person, who has a good reputation and who will take the time to discuss your needs. But first, know what it is you're looking for in a frame.