|Bianchi Eros Donna Women Specific Bike||MichelleGrevson|
Jun 13, 2002 6:15 AM
|I am thining about buying my first road bike. It is a Bianchi Eros Donna that is supposed to be women specific. It if was women specific woudln't it have the diagonal top bar that rises towards the front of the bike?|
Jun 13, 2002 6:19 AM
|That style is way old school. Anyone know why they used to do that on women specific bikes?|
Jun 13, 2002 6:20 AM
|Probably because a bunch of men thought that it was improper for women to wear anything but dresses when the bicycle was invented. That God for the feminist movement putting them in their place.|
|And women bought them. nm||tronracer|
Jun 13, 2002 6:25 AM
|And women bought them. nm||MichelleGrevson|
Jun 13, 2002 6:35 AM
|I am sure it was a marketing plan that sold them. Women were told to stay home and cook and clean back then, so truth be known it was probably men who bought them for their wives. It is good to know we have advanced far in the last eighty years.|
|It's pretty well documented,||TJeanloz|
Jun 13, 2002 6:47 AM
|It's pretty well documented, and there's a decent book on the subject, that the simple bicycle did more for Women's liberation than any other thing at the end of the 19th century.
I would say the old design was an equal opportunity one- without it, bicycles would have been a male-only tool, with it, women could safely ride.
Jun 13, 2002 7:14 AM
|I don't think there is anything inherently sexist in the origin of the bicycle (hey, I ain't that cynical). And Susan B. Anthony has a great quote... which escapes me now of course ... basically saying that the bicycle was very liberating for women.
I've been thinking of finding it and adding it to my signature line in online forums.
|The Susan B. Anthony Quote:||Me Dot Org|
Jun 13, 2002 7:38 AM
|"The Bicycle has done more for the emancipation of women than anything else in the world."
Susan B. Anthony - 1896
|The Susan B. Anthony Quote:||heloise|
Jun 13, 2002 7:55 AM
|Awww you beat me to it. Guess I'll just have to add:
"A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle". Anyone know who said that first?
To Susan B.'s list i have to add:
1. The washing maching.
2. Birth control pills
3. The almighty sports bra.
|Irina Dunn||Me Dot Org|
Jun 13, 2002 9:07 AM
|said "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle."|
|Irina Dunn, Correct||bikedodger|
Jun 13, 2002 9:21 AM
|I found this on a site after a Google search on the phrase.
A bit of herstory:
the definitive word on the origin!
The letter below, from famed feminist Gloria Steinem, appeared in Time magazine sometime in September or October 2000.
In your note on my new and happy marital partnership with David Bale, you credit me with the witticism 'A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.' In fact, Irina Dunn, a distinguished Australian educator, journalist and politician, coined the phrase back in 1970 when she was a student at the University of Sydney. She paraphrased the philosopher who said, "Man needs God like fish needs a bicycle." Dunn deserves credit for creating such a popular and durable spoof of the old idea that women need men more than vice versa.
Irina Dunn has confirmed this story, in an e-mail of January 28, 2002:
Yes, indeed, I am the one Gloria referred to. I was paraphrasing from a phrase I read in a philosophical text I was reading for my Honours year in English Literature and Language in 1970. It was "A man needs God like a fish needs a bicycle". My inspiration arose from being involved in the renascent women's movement at the time, and from being a bit if a smart-arse. I scribbled the phrase on the backs of two toilet doors, would you believe, one at Sydney University where I was a student, and the other at Soren's Wine Bar at Woolloomooloo, a seedy suburb in south Sydney. The doors, I have to add, were already favoured graffiti sites.
Irina Dunn has also submitted biographical information about herself. In response to questions about the wording of the saying as she coined it, and how it spread, she responded:
I imagine that the saying, which was, NB, "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" was carried forth into the world by the growing numbers of women in the newly born women's movement. Perhaps someone else also read the same phrase in the same book and also paraphrased it? I doubt it, though.
The wording of the campaign button and bumper sticker sold in the United States is "a woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle" -- different from Dunn's wording and possibly changed in order to obtain a copyright. Asked whether she regretted not holding a copyright on the saying, Dunn replied:
Yes, I suppose I wish I could have made some money out of it, but tant pis, it's too late now and it's fun to see what's happened to it
|Kirch,Kutch, und kinder||Paul|
Jun 13, 2002 7:46 AM
|Not 100% sure of my German spelling, but Hitler once said that for women. Church,kitchen, and children. Ah, the good old days.|
|Kirch,Kutch, und kinder||bikedodger|
Jun 13, 2002 7:49 AM
|Is that better than "barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen"?|
|Ranked about equal, along with voting rights (nm)||Paul|
Jun 13, 2002 10:26 AM
Jun 13, 2002 6:36 AM
|Are men the only ones responsible for women wearing dresses? My girlfriend is trying to find one of these frames because she wants to wear dresses, not because men are forcing her to.|
|That name ...||jtolleson|
Jun 13, 2002 6:45 AM
|borders on an epithet in my book. Let it go.
The point about clothing is that now women can choose. Like your girlfriend, I wear dresses quite a bit. But I don't want to be forced to and I don't want to ride horses sidesaddle.
Like it or not, the origin of the hold sloped tt on women's bikes WAS the assumption that girls would be in dresses.
|sorry bout the name||ishmael|
Jun 13, 2002 7:31 AM
|yes in the early days of the bicycle it was assumed that women would wear dresses and many did. But some were daring and rode regular bikes anyway. Even in the days before the standard safety frame when there were only pennyfarthings women who had some balls would ride. If some women werent daring enough to take control of there lives and stand up for themselves and the other women to come in later generations they shouldnt neccesarily be assumed to have been overly supressed. When do we stop blameing others for your situation and take control. I'm sick of anyone blameing anyone for anything, yes women had to struggle to get what they deserved, and they did, and now they dont have to blame anyone. My problem is of blameing others instead of finding a solution. This may seem callus but things arent done untill control is taken of ones own life, and that starts by saying "Im responsible for myself". this is just a rambling that doesnt come quite to what I mean and I mean no disrespect to women, I'm respectfull enough not to coddle becuase I know they are capable of surmounting any obstacle, but only if they stop blameing and take control|
|The Terry Trixie||Me Dot Org|
Jun 13, 2002 8:10 AM
|Let me see...your girlfriend is trying to find a step-through frame, you're a regular poster on cycling board, and you never ask anyone about it...
If you are serious about your girlfriend wanting a "step-through", she might take a look at a Bianchi Milano, Bianchi Boardwalk or a Terry Trixie.
The CEO of Terry Bicycles is Georgena Terry. I haven't of anyone calling her a "backslider" or "counter-revolutionary" for offering a "step-through" bike. But perhaps you know some "fem-nazis" that I don't...
|she had the milano||ishmael|
Jun 13, 2002 8:23 AM
|in cali but sold it. dont need to ask any questions about it. I was upset at the other poster saying men were responsible for womens problems. Im sick of it, I'm in college and its all I hear. God forbid you were to speak up on behalf of womens ability to empower themselves.|
|forget i said anything||ishmael|
Jun 13, 2002 8:31 AM
|ive gone back and read everything and it seems I'm just freaking out for no reason, sorry.|
Jun 14, 2002 4:40 AM
|I know Georgina Terry, and have never seen her actually ride one of these bikes. I'm sure that there is a market niche of women that want a high quality bike, and still wish to ride it while wearing a skirt. It's probably small, but Terry is just filling a need in the marketplace.|
|re: Bianchi Eros Donna Women Specific Bike||jtolleson|
Jun 13, 2002 6:43 AM
|"Women specific" (not to be confused with the "girl's bike" of old...) is more about proportions.
Most popular frame sizes are smaller (obviously) but also have a proportionately shorter top tube, often slightly narrower bars, less throw (easier reach) to brakes. Not every women needs one; in fact, most do not.
Biggest need is for the very small women (i.e., those shopping 43cm frames etc.) and those with very short torso.
|the new compact and semi-compact geometry works for women||ishmael|
Jun 13, 2002 7:35 AM
|and anyone with longer legs and a shorter torso. They often have short top tubes and long headtubes.|
|the new compact and semi-compact geometry works for women||NJRoad|
Jun 13, 2002 9:16 AM
|From everthing I've seen the compact frames are worse for a typical women's geometry. I would think a woman who's having a tough time fitting in one of the typical American designs would be better served with a standard Euro design double-diamond (very square geometry).
I've been looking compacts because I need a longer top tube and I am anything but long legged (5'11" - almost a 31" Inseam)
|in my case||ishmael|
Jun 13, 2002 11:25 AM
|even a traditional italian geometry was too long for me. As I remember it, most of the compact frames have long headtubes and short top tubes in comparison to almost every other frame. Thats why I bought one.|| |