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Campy with Shimano(12 posts)

Campy with ShimanoHBPat
Jun 11, 2002 1:33 PM
Will Campy shifters work with a Shimano drive train? I think they changed their actuation ratio when they introduced 10 speed but I am not sure.

Follow up: Can campy shifters and derailleurs be used with Shimano cassette, chain, cranks?
re: Campy with ShimanoNo_sprint
Jun 11, 2002 1:41 PM
I'm no super wrench, but I don't know of any way a DA 9 shifter can shift into the 10th gear.

I really can't see any reason to use Shimano stuff with Campy stuff or vice versa at all.
ClarificationHBPat
Jun 11, 2002 1:53 PM
I have a set of 9-speed (veloce) shifters and want to use them with my Ultegra bike. Just wondering if I can throw them on there... if I need to change the front or rear derailleurs... or if it won't work at all. The ratios are close enough that I am not sure I can tell if it will work smoothly.
ClarificationNo_sprint
Jun 11, 2002 1:59 PM
Aaah, gotya. I'm not really sure if that'll work. I'm sure someone in here does and will help ya out.
won't work...C-40
Jun 11, 2002 2:08 PM
The campy 9 speed shifters won't operate a shimano rear derailleur, you'll have to get a campy model. The front derailleur will work.

The cog spacing on the shimano cassette is 4.32mm versus 4.55mm for campy. Some folks get buy using a shimano cassette with a campy drivetrain, but the shifting will be far from perfect. The error is 5% per shift, which accumulates to a minimum of 20% after four shifts. The rear derailleur must be centered on the middle cog to keep the error to + or - 20%. If it's not the error could reach 40%.
won't work.../ error is NOT cumlativejimPz
Jun 11, 2002 4:10 PM
The 5% difference is not cumlative thru the whole cassette, if it was the cassette would have to be 40% wider.
It's only 5% period.
Think of it this way, if you grt a 5% raise per week at work, do you have a 260% raise at the end of the year (52 * 5) ? no, it still 5%.
That said, it's best to stick with matching shifters & rear derailleurs

JimPz
sorry, but you are wrong...C-40
Jun 12, 2002 4:34 AM
If the campy derailleur moves 4.55mm eight times, it travels 36.4mm. The center of the shimano 9th cog is located 34.56mm from first cog (4.32 x 8). The difference is 1.84mm. 1.84mm divided by 4.55mm is .40 or 40%.

On the 8th shift, the rear derailleur pulleys would be located almost halfway between the 8th and ninth cogs. Unless the derailleur were adjusted more closely, to reduce the error to around the minimum 20%, the shift wouldn't even occur.
slight correction...C-40
Jun 12, 2002 5:05 AM
"On the 8th shift, the rear derailleur pulleys would be located almost halfway between the 8th and ninth cogs. Unless the derailleur were adjusted more closely, to reduce the error to around the minimum 20%, the shift wouldn't even occur."

The paragraph above would describe a shimano drivetrain used with a campy cassette. The proper description for the campy drivetrain, used with a shimano cassette is below.

On the 8th shift the campy derailleur would overtravel by 1.84mm. It would still be 40% off location, with the chain trying to jump off the largest cog(and perhaps into the spokes), unless restricted by the limit screw.

It's most important to properly adjusted the derailleur to be centered on the middle cog if you use a shifter/derailleur combination that is not matched to the cassette. This will limit the positioning error to the minimum 20% on the fourth shift either direction from the center.
re: Campy with ShimanoStampertje
Jun 11, 2002 2:31 PM
There was a discussion on the components board on how to use campy levers with shimano drivetrains. You need a 10-speed lever to control a shimano rear mech - instructions on
http://www.hubbub.com
re: Campy with ShimanoSteve Bailey
Jun 11, 2002 4:32 PM
Campy 10 will not shift a Shimano 9 cassette.

Campy 9 Ergo levers will shift, reasonably well, a Shimano 9 cassette.

I just did this so as to keep an oddball 110/74 BCD crank that wouldn't work with a Shimano triple fnt shifter.

Without going into the reasons why (I've reached the point of diminishing returns) I am using Centaur Ergo levers and a Centaur R, derailer. The cassette is a Shimano 12-21 spd. with a Sachs 9 spd. chain.

I'm actually very pleased with the levers, finding them a bit easier to remember what lever does what then my 8 spd. Ultegra STI (one bikes bar-cons, one's Ultegra double STI, a third's now Campy !).

One advantage to Campy, besides the semi-indexed front, is the ability to tweak/finess the rear shift, such as 19 up to 21, or 12 to 13. As these are the cogs I use the least the 5% error as JimPz has indicated isn't an issue.

SB
campy 10 with shimano 9 cassette....C-40
Jun 12, 2002 6:28 AM
Campy 9-speed cog spacing is 4.55mm. Shimano 9-speed spacing is 4.32mm. The difference is .23mm or 5%. If a Campy derailleur and shifters are used with a Shimano cassette, the derailleur will overshift by 5% on each shift. The total accumulative error can be kept to a minimum of 20% if the derailleur is carefully centered on the middle cog. On the fourth shift either direction from center, the derailleur will be positioned .92mm further to the right or left of where it's supposed to be. This is a 21% error (.92/4.32). This won't make for quiet operation or long component life. It could also cause a loss in power due to additional friction.

If this amount of error is considered acceptable, then a Campy 10 speed drivetrain may work equally well with a Shimano 9-speed cassette. The amount of error per shift is 4.32mm – 4.12mm = .20mm. The only difference is the Campy 10 derailleur will undershift instead of overshift. Even if properly adjusted, the fourth shift from the center might not occur, due to the accumulative undershifting. The 9th shift position could be avoided by proper adjust of the limit screw.
re: Campy with ShimanoDragon33
Jun 12, 2002 11:57 AM
I have 2 road bikes one with Shimano Ultegra and the other Campy Daytona. One set of wheel are with Campy hubs and the Kysriums with Shimano. I use them interchangebly all the time with absolutely no problem. No missed shifts, nothing.