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About the French(35 posts)

About the FrenchMikeC
Jun 4, 2002 6:33 AM
Look, I'm not trying to be politically correct, but I'm beginning to get a little concerned by how easily and uniformly a bunch of posters bash the French. Yeah, we know that the Tour is a bastion of parochialism. Yeah, we're still sensitive about them getting in the way of us bombing Libya. Yeah, we know that they object to English words encroaching upon their lexicon.
But...we don't use the "n"-word anymore because it's just wrong. We shouldn't call the French "Frogs," either. Let's save our insults for individuals, not a whole nation.
Remember, they were on our side during the Revolution!
Thanks. I feel better now.
Is it derisive?TJeanloz
Jun 4, 2002 6:41 AM
Is calling a Frenchman a 'frog' truely derisive?

I'd put it in the same category as calling an Englishman a limie, a southerner a redneck, a Canadian a Canuck, or some such thing.

I don't think any of the French are truely insulted, at least not nearly in the same way that African-Americans are by the "n" word.
seems to me...collinsc
Jun 4, 2002 7:20 AM
that the only people not allowed to use the "n word" (if thats what we want to call it) are white dudes. Granted we have a history of abusing the term, but it seems to me that it has now become a term of endearment.

You know what I mean..."Wassup mah ni__a!!!"
I dont get it, but anyone can call themselves whatever they want as far as Im concerned.
re: About the Frenchohmk1
Jun 4, 2002 6:48 AM
You have to go way back to the Revolution to find French support?
I personally don't buy anything made in France-especially cycling products. And I urge my fellow Americans to do the same, although as a free market society, I don't look down at people who do support French companies.
I love and cherish my freedom of speech, and if you get concerned about French bashing-too bad, get over it.
So the Gulf War was before the Revolution?Me Dot Org
Jun 4, 2002 7:21 AM
Weren't there French aircraft in the air and French troops on the ground in the Gulf War?

There's an old joke:

In heaven the administration is Swiss, the lovers are Italian, the auto mechanics are German, the food is French and the Policemen are English.

In hell the lovers are Swiss, the administration is Italian, the policemen are German, the French are auto mechanics and the food is English.

Different cultures are good at different things.
whats wrong with english foodwarriorcharge
Jun 4, 2002 7:54 AM
you cant beat a good "toad in the hole" or a bit of "bubble and squeak"
it's okay as long as you don't know what you're eating(nm)Paul
Jun 4, 2002 8:39 AM
Ah yes, another CLASSIC 'Murrican responseEJC
Jun 4, 2002 12:08 PM
...the ol' Yank "I have the RIGHT To spew forth any crap or jocular masturbations that I want, and if y'all don't like it, kiss my "mUrrican Arse."

When will you Yanks learn tthat having the right to do something does NOT mean it is the RIGHT thing to do. Probably never.

And THAT is why Americans are so despised worldwide.

EJC
I like the French. God bless them it's a wonderful country.Sintesi
Jun 4, 2002 6:59 AM
Some Americans are loudmouthed creeps as are some French. I take the bad with the good.
choosing bewteen a dinner table full of...EJC
Jun 4, 2002 12:11 PM
...French folks, or 'Murricans, it is a no-brainer...I am choosing the table of French.

On the whole, better manners, more sophisticated, better ability to converse about topics other than killing sand-box based countries, and you stand a better chance at actually GETTING some food. The Yanks are going to fill up three times as much and still go looking for more...(this is a metapohr as well)

EJC
I am angrandemamou
Jun 4, 2002 7:44 AM
American by birth and French by descent and I personaly take no offense. IMO lots of Americans bash the French because France is a sovereign nation and acts accordingly. They don't always tow the American line.

As far as the Tour, I would like to see other more deserving teams in there but I do see what they are trying to accomplish. The smaller French teams push the pace to get their sponsors air time. They have no GC hopes so they take off on breakaways with the hopes of getting a stage win or face time. This causes the peleton to push the pace and makes for a more exciting race.
good pointmr_spin
Jun 4, 2002 7:49 AM
Funny how Americans who bash the French are shocked when other countries bash America.

I love France. I used to live there. Cities everywhere kinda suck, but the French people outside the big cities were some of the warmest and friendliest people I've ever met.
dictionaryDougSloan
Jun 4, 2002 8:01 AM
Main Entry: frog
Pronunciation: 'frog, 'fräg
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English frogge, from Old English frogga; akin to Old High German frosk frog; senses 2, 3, 5, 7, 8 unclearly derived & perhaps of distinct origin
Date: before 12th century
1 : any of various smooth-skinned web-footed largely aquatic tailless agile leaping amphibians (as a ranid) -- compare TOAD
2 : the triangular elastic horny pad in the middle of the sole of the foot of a horse -- see HOOF illustration
3 a : a loop attached to a belt to hold a weapon or tool b : an ornamental braiding for fastening the front of a garment that consists of a button and a loop through which it passes
4 often capitalized, usually offensive : FRENCHMAN
5 : a device permitting the wheels on one rail of a track to cross an intersecting rail
6 : a condition in the throat that produces hoarseness
7 : the nut of a violin bow
8 : a small holder (as of metal, glass, or plastic) with perforations or spikes for holding flowers in place in a bowl or vase

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
Do you find Gringo offensive? French love frog legs! (nm)Paul
Jun 4, 2002 8:38 AM
Do you find Gringo offensive? French love frog legs! (nm)vitusdude
Jun 4, 2002 9:12 AM
I am an American. I find nothing offensive. Go ahead, call me Gringo. Insult me. I don't care. Just don't make fun of my bike. Please.
I never met a bike I didn't like(nm)Paul
Jun 4, 2002 9:52 AM
sticks and stones... nmDougSloan
Jun 4, 2002 9:30 AM
We have much to learnUncle Tim
Jun 4, 2002 8:09 AM
There is a lot about French culture that we should try harder to emulate, though it would be foolish to try to copy their ways.

In terms of cycling, is their any culture that embraces it more than the French? Could any other culture possibly allow something like le Tour de France to evolve and prosper?

I hope I live long enough to see the US acquire a fraction of the passion for cycling that the French demonstrate daily.

J'ai beaucoup de respect for les Francais. Vive la France et vive le velo!
Winston C. once said, "we all have crosses to bear, mine is thePaul
Jun 4, 2002 8:25 AM
Cross of Lorraine." They try so hard to be great in anything, but just can't make it. The only reason they helped us out in the Revolution was because they didn't want England to take over after they were driven out. They have been a pain in the butt ever since. They would never invite the Postal team if it wasn't for Lance, no matter how good they were.
correctionDuane Gran
Jun 4, 2002 9:07 AM
They would never invite the Postal team if it wasn't for Lance, no matter how good they were.

The top 16 UCI ranked teams are automatically invited including the previous year tour winner. Le Blanc can have any opinion he wants, but it only counts for selecting the wildcard teams.
correction taken (nm)Paul
Jun 4, 2002 9:54 AM
Quoting ChurchillJOM
Jun 4, 2002 12:20 PM
Wasn't Churchill the guy who referred to Ghandi as being a the "Bandit in the Blanket?" This sort of sums up where I think his quotes rank...
What.. WW3? We Surrender....-France53x12
Jun 4, 2002 8:50 AM
ma femme est une grenouilleslow-ron
Jun 4, 2002 9:56 AM
My wife was born in France and moved to the U.S. at age 21. My friends and I call her Froggy all the time and she laughs about it. She's really laid back but I still don;t think the French mind it all that much.
One of my riding buddies is from France, and I call him myPaul
Jun 4, 2002 10:04 AM
little frog friend, and his two small girls tadpoles.
How about, "Cheese-eating surrender monkeys"sidley
Jun 4, 2002 10:11 AM
The french deserve such epitaphs. Since you refer back to the Revolution, might I remind you that the French sided with the US only after it appeared we could attain victory. Moreover, I am certain my grandfather and 2 of his 4 brothers would much prefer being subjected to name-calling than what they endured. He and 2 of his brothers died figthing in France when the Frogs were licking the boots of the Germans and deportnig every jew they could get ahold of.

F%#* the Frogs.
and 'Murricans are "Fat-Assed, Loud-mouthed, Resource Suckers"EJC
Jun 4, 2002 12:05 PM
...while the "Frogs" end up being concerned with things such as:

Their appearance - (important side note - the USA has given the world such contributions like the Ball-Cap, T-Shirt, and M.C Hammer pants as Haute Couture)

Being responsible WORLD citizens (like actually paying their UN dues BEFORE armed conflicts where they need everyone on their side)

Art - (again, such high and mighty contributions come from the US like posters from State Fairs that read "Kiss My Red White and Blue American Ass" or other such gems as "Kill All The Sand Niggers and Let God Sort 'Em Out")

Donating great statues to the USA - need I remind you Yanks that your beloved symbol of alleged equality and "freedom" in your country - the Statue of LIBERTY - was given to you from *ahem* the "Frogs"

F*&# the french you say? No no, F*@#^ the USA.

EJC
If you hate the French...Me Dot Org
Jun 4, 2002 12:19 PM
...it would seem logical that you would hate the Danes, Dutch and Belgians for not putting up more of a fight.

...you must really hate the Swiss the Swedes and Portugese for being neutral.

...God knows how you must feel about the Italians.

...and I can imagine how do you feel about the Germans. I believe they fired a few of the bullets that killed Americans in this century.

There are certainly a lot of Europeans you can hate.
I thought it was limited to the Frenchsidley
Jun 4, 2002 1:47 PM
Margaret Thatcher said it best when she stated, In my lifetime, all the worlds' worst problems have stemmed from the Continent and all the solutions have stemmed from Anglo-American cooperation.

So yeah, your imagination is probably accurate.
Anglo-American who?slow-ron
Jun 4, 2002 1:59 PM
The Engligh and Americans were as responsible for not stopping WWII as any other country on the continent if not more.

When Hitler annexed Austria and then began a conflict with the Czechs, the Americans and Brits did nothing. All the allies kept saying was, 'well if Hitler does one more thing we'll stop him'. Guess what, they never did anything until it was too late and now you want to blame the Frogs for being pussies and getting your Grandfather killed. You should read a bit more about history and how and why this war ever happened instead of playing the American cowboy.
I thought it was limited to the FrenchMe Dot Org
Jun 4, 2002 5:32 PM
Yes, it's easy to be smug when you've got a piece of the Atlantic Ocean separating you from the Kaiser and Hitler.

Mrs. Thatcher seems to be confusing geography with character.

My grandfather fought in France during "The Great War" which is what WWI was called before we had to number them. Between the start of the war in 1914, Wilson's campaign pledge "He Kept Us Out Of War" in 1916, and our decision to "make the world safe for democracy", the French lost over 1,000,000 men. That is more men than the United States has lost in all wars in the 20th century. The United States lost 53,000 men in combat during the entire war. The French lost more men in a week. (The United States lost more civilians in the influenza epidemic of 1918). So when you speak of the French being unable to sacrifice and fight, there are some historical precidents (remember Napoleon's Army?) that would seem to contradict that notion.

The French failure in WWII was in preparing to win the previous war, a defensive war of position. The Maginot Line was not an appropriate defense in an era of Stuka dive bombers and mobile artillery. It was more a failure of the French General Staff than the French fighting spirit.

I seem to remember that the British were very lucky at Dunkirk, that Hitler's indecision was what kept the "Anglo" part of the Anglo-American alliance from being decimated. The British had an an island to which they could repair. The French did not.
D-Day is coming up, let's all have a frog leg to celebrate (nm)Paul
Jun 4, 2002 10:31 AM
re: About the FrenchJOM
Jun 4, 2002 12:15 PM
Mike,
Please pardon this non cycling related respone. However, WRT your comment on the US Libya bombing, having lived in Europe at that time I recall things a little different. The French position was not simply "do not use our airspace." They wanted to take Libya out - plain and simple. Reagan disagreed - just an airstrike was wanted.
When you live in close proximity to such countries it is probably not a great idea to just piss them off when you can take them out.
Maybe they were on to something... Remember Lockerbie.

Also, at the end of the WWII France sought to keep its identity (Viva!) and not go the way of the English... Remember, England has no permanent friends only temporary interests.

Plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose.
France vs AmericaJOM
Jun 4, 2002 12:37 PM
For all of those bad mouthing France consider the following.

1) The average French work week is 30 hours (no wonder they have time to cycle). Next time you work 50, 60, 70, or more hours in a week think of how lucky you are not to be riding.

2) True their unemployment is higher. However, in France there are no "working poor" and their unemployed are actually better off than many of our employed. Better health care and other benefits. Also, there definition of poor is a much higher standard than ours.

3) Three months off every year?!? Needless to say I would be in the Pyrennees for a few weeks.

4) The American dream is to own a house, correct? Did you know that the highest percentage of people owning a second home is in France? Hmmmmm.

5) No hanging chads. The French elect by majority rule we do it by a plurality. Someone in France must get 50% of the vote. If our latest Presidential elections had occurred in France Gore and Bush would have had to face each other (since neither got 50%) in a runoff. Thus, no third party spoilers

6) Finally, check out where we rank wrt the Fernch when it comes to literacy, infant mortality, education - way down the list.

In summary, we have a better lifestyle (paid for on credit) whereas they have a better quality of life.

In the end, God Bless America, we are the big dog on the block, there's no place else I would rather live. Don't give me that "Love it or leave it" line. I just want to be the best - which is what we are all about...
doesn't even comparefuzzybunnies
Jun 4, 2002 8:57 PM
Before yu go spouting off about the level of education in france verse America, france is 2nd in the world behind Japan you might want to look at another stat which is france having the second highest teen suicide rate in the world, coincidently right behind Japan and than ask if you want to put your kid under that stress. Nothing wrong with france that getting rid of the french wouldn't cure. Course they do serve one good purpose, they give the British an extra day to perpare for the germans before surrendering.