|Falling in love...again||rideslikeagirl|
Jun 3, 2002 7:52 AM
|Recently, a poster asked about Mondonico/Torrelli bikes, cuz he wanted to get back to a fine Italian-made steel ride.
My Mondonico was the first real road bike I've had until last year when I bought an alloy Simonetti. Once I got the proper saddle and fit, I couldn't believe the difference between the two bikes! I've never felt so 'at one' with an inanimate object - had never descended like such a devil or climbed like such an angel! I was hooked!!
After a couple months, I rode my steel bike again. Once. Poor sluggish, sack of potatoes- I couldn't stand dragging her sorry butt up the hills. So she has sat, unused and unloved for six months now.
I certainly couldn't understand this gentleman's desire to go BACK to steel!
Until this weekend.
I dusted off that bike yesterday and cruised 50 miles on our bike path. Wow!
I don't know what's changed, but I can appreciate her now, like never before.
All those little cracks in the road that jarred my body on the Simonetti were magically smoothed out on my steel beauty. And I guess since I'm stronger now, I hardly noticed the weight difference between the two. She purred like a kitten and melted my heart, all over again.
(And she didn't even hold a grudge!) :)
On the non-cycling board, someone asked if it's possible to be in love, break up and be able to get back together again. Well, I don't know about relationships, but when it comes to bikes...you betcha!!
Jun 3, 2002 8:35 AM
|I know what you mean. I rode a Masi Team 3V made with Reynolds and an Ultegra group for years, loved it but it was time for a new steed so I bought a Serotta Legend Ti with Campy.
The Serotta was worlds better, light, responsive, with a higher level of comfort all around. And I rode this for months before getting back on the Masi. When I did ride the Masi again I couldn't believe how good it felt. It still seemed slightly heavier in comparison but the ride was just as smooth (almost) and I could appreciate my old bike once more.
I will always feel faster on the Serotta and 50 and 100 milers leave me fresher than when I ride the Masi but steel feels good.
Jun 3, 2002 8:51 AM
|As much as I love my Klein I had the feeling that it was beating my old body up at times, especially on long rides. I went the opposite direction and purchased a new Colnago Master X-Light, which I absolutely love. I still ride the Klein once and while, for some reason it feels faster and climbs better. But the steel bike tracks better when descending and I don't get beat up on long rides. I think it's nice to have two completely different bikes to choose from (or 3 or 4)....|
|Whatever works. Rode C-Dales for years. Built a Look 386, and||Paul|
Jun 3, 2002 9:14 AM
|had my first long, hard ride up and down hills, with a long flat to the finish. What a dream to ride! Never noticed any bumps, bike is aero and smooth, and climbs easily. Even though it's a time trial bike, it is easily set up as a "multi-purpose" bike. Best part, don't see others like it. Park it, and it draws a crowd. 57 cm frame, 16lbs 3 ounces. Light,fast, joy to ride. |
p.s. Still like my C-Dale
|Similar experience, and a sort of semi-related question||Silverback|
Jun 3, 2002 9:16 AM
|I had the same experience several years ago with a '70s Motobecane that had been hanging in my garage for years--I thought it was too clunky and too old-fashioned and too heavy, and then I got back on it and loved it.
The question, though, is this: How much difference can (say) 8 ounces really make? We fall all over ourselves to find a frame that weighs 3 1/2 pounds instead of 4. But in the context of bike, rider, water bottles, wallet full of $100 bills in the seat bag and whatnot, it's half of 1 percent of the total weight. Less than that, if you're a Clyde like me. If everything else were equal (which of course it isn't), I wonder if I could even FEEL it.
|Freudian analysis of the question.||dzrider|
Jun 3, 2002 11:07 AM
|Spinning feels like spinning to me. Heavier frame, heavier wheels, even running a tire-driven dynamo for a headlight all feel pretty similar to me if I'm spinning 85 to 90 rpms and breathing comfortably. The difference shows up accelerating and climbing. There's definitely and instant when I stand to climb or sprint and a lighter bike feels like it's going to shoot out from between my legs.
It's very seductive, but like many temptations, the thrill doesn't last too long. Eventually, I'm pulling much the same load up the hill or hitting my maximum heart rate sprinting at much the same speed in the same gear. So I give up a little excitement for some comfort - kind of like marriage.
|Good final analysis ;-) nm||rideslikeagirl|
Jun 3, 2002 11:53 AM
|re: Falling in love...again||flying|
Jun 3, 2002 11:26 AM
|Great timing on this post......
I am considering going the other way.
I have a great Colnago MXL which I love but.....
All & I mean all of my riding is climbing & decending. Average 4000' in 30 miles.
I am about to or I am very close to pulling the trigger on a Ciocc Challenger alum/carbon
I think it would end up roughly 17# versus my MXL which is 19.5-20#
But the thing I keep coming up with is this.
My mxl frame & fork is roughly 2175 grams or 4.79 lbs.
The new ciocc would be 1635 grams or 3.60 lbs.
That is 1.19 lbs difference ?
Hmmm so why isn't my MXL 18 lbs? Maybe I will work on this mxl a bit more. I do have very heavy wheels right now 1800+ grams.
I would like to ask you though.... You said when you switched you really felt the difference. Then when you checked back the Steel was heavy & slow. How does it feel now on *climbs* ?
Jun 3, 2002 12:05 PM
Yesterday didn't include any real hills.
Without a doubt, I will grab for the aluminum bike if a ride calls for any amount of substantial or sustained climbing. If, for no other reason, than to have that psychological edge of knowing it's the lighter bike.
I don't have a scale, so I don't know what the real weight difference is. I am curious to find out though.
I wouldn't think I'd notice a difference with much less than an overall variance of 3-5 pounds. But, that's just me, and I'm purely speculating.
Jun 4, 2002 4:55 AM
|I think you are on the right track with your weight analysis only include the weight of your body also. It becomes very clear that 1-2 lbs. makes very little difference when you include your own weight in the equation.
As far as a MXL goes, your 4.79 lbs. frame + fork weight sounds too low. Colnago lists a 55 cm Masterlight frame to come in around 4.0 lbs. + 1.5 lbs. for the fork. This may explain some of the weight difference you are seeing.
Jun 4, 2002 1:05 PM
|Your right Ed * according to spec* but I weighed the frame when I got it. It weighs 3.45 lbs with a Chorus Bottom bracket & headset ( cups). If the BB is 220 grams as stated on Campy site? Then the frame is roughly 1345 grams or 2.96 lbs.
Where did you see the weight listed? The only place I have seen it is World Cycling which shows 1800 grams? They must mean with a fork.
I am using a Flash Carbon fork which is no where near the advertised weight of 490 grams. Mine is like 612 with just the bottom washer from the headset on.
But in the end it all seems pretty crazy to chase 1-2 lbs eh? ;-))
|why not 18?||Leisure|
Jun 4, 2002 5:59 AM
|Companies fudge their weight estimates. Off topic, I know, but when the guys at my LBS are asked to build up a bike to a certain weight, they go look up all the published weights and pick the parts accordingly. Time and time again the bike ends up being heavier than it was supposed to add up to. If you're getting estimates the same way my LBS (and seemingly most everyone else) is, your Ciocc *could* end up being closer to 18 pounds. Not bad, but not much better than your MXL. Just like you're saying, you could likely drop some weight on your MXL elsewhere.
Similar to yours, my frame (Gunnar) weighs probably about 4.5 lbs and my complete bike is also 19.5 pounds. I know I could lose a decent amount with cranks, wheels, BB, stem, post, that could get it close to 18.5 pounds if it mattered to me. Since you already love your frame, it might be worth looking into.
|Love is sensate, not rational||Me Dot Org|
Jun 3, 2002 12:12 PM
|As Dr. Freud said, turning the crank is turning the crank. But there's a difference between an excercise bike with a fan and riding on a warm spring day with jasmine an honeysuckle in the air.
Cycling is a sensate experience. Yes, if I was pedaling up the Rockies I'd think about something other than steel, but for day to day enjoyment it is hard to beat. My current steed is Columbus Foco. My planned backup will be lugged Reynolds. A lugged Reynolds frame isn't the lightest ride in the world, but so what? I'm riding in CAT Fun.
|Love is sensate, not rational||koala|
Jun 3, 2002 3:59 PM
|Love your analysis. That sums up the way I feel too now that I have given up competition.|
Jun 3, 2002 1:09 PM
|Today I had off and had planned a nice long ride of at least 60 miles.Pumped up the tires on the kg271 and out of the driveway I went. It wouldn't shift. Friggin' Mektronics, time to change the battery! Oh well, the Nishiki was sitting there, ready to go. (A mid to late 80"s Tange 2 framed 12 speed w/indexed shifters.) Had a great ride. I did a 2+ mile climb at about mile 40, wondering what it would be like on that lead anchor. Flew right up it! Don't get me wrong, the Look is lighter, stiffer, more comfy and faster, but the Nishiki made me smile today. BTW-it was about 70F, little or no wind, and almost no clouds in the sky, about 35% humidity. A perfect day!|
|Sounds like a great ride! nm||rideslikeagirl|
Jun 3, 2002 1:33 PM
|that was me||rufus|
Jun 3, 2002 1:55 PM
|i was the one who originally posted about the mondonico/torelli. the thing is, i wouldn't be going back to steel, just continuing on. i'm never gonna be a great rider, or do 100 mile rides for fun(at least, i don't think i will). and i don't really ride that much, i've only got about 400 miles in this year, which is actually a lot for me, last year i rode almost 900 all year. the two years previous, i barely rode 300, mostly on the road with my mountain bike, due mainly to a bad knee that eventually needed surgery.
now that the knee is better, and i'm not working at the moment, i'm doing a lot more riding. and i'm riding the road bike more, a 1989 specialized sirrus that i like a lot for being such a cheap bike. i'm starting to get some semblance of fitness again, and hopefully, this might be the year i'll get in really good shape.
however, a real lightweight bike just is not for me. i'm very heavy now, and the one year i was in pretty good shape, i got down to 183 lbs. and i should probably be lighter than that, but if i could get to 175-180, i'll be happy. christ, i was 155 out of high school, but i'll never see those days again. heavier rider, good solid frame. plus, i've got this retro-grouch temperament i guess, that a road bike should be lugged steel, not tig welded, and especially not aluminum. i can make an exception for titanium i suppose, but i'm just kind of an old-fashioned, carry on history kind of guy. i just like it that way. and with the giro, etc, i think i'm becoming a bit of an italio-phile, and have gotten a yearning for a nice handbuilt italian steel frame.
i did a little figuring, if the excel catalogs weights are correct, and a columbus el-os mondonico, chromed steel fork, built up with campy chorus, will weigh in at about 19.5 lbs. that's plenty light for me, as my sirrus, even with some upgrades, probably is around 23. as someone said, once you figure in the rider, full bottles, and everything else, you're talking about a 1% weight difference at best.
|chromed steel fork and lugged steel||rideslikeagirl|
Jun 3, 2002 3:44 PM
|Yep. There's just not much prettier 'n that!
I hadn't even looked at my Mondonico in so long, I'd forgotten how beautifully crafted she is.
So, have you made a decision/placed your order? :)
|chromed steel fork and lugged steel||rufus|
Jun 3, 2002 6:40 PM
|no, i'm more wishful thinking. right now i'm unemployed with tons of credit card debt, so i gotta take care of that first. i think just riding the road bike more kinda rekindled why i loved to ride, and watching the giro got me in the mood for a real classic italian bike. but one of these days.......|| |