|Cipo wins the purple jersey!!! But still not going to Tour..||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jun 2, 2002 2:49 PM
|Cipo wins the purple jersey. But the Tour de France organizers still have Saeco on their list of teams even though one has tested positive for cocaine last I heard. Great publicity. I think Cipo is stronger than ever this year and could break his record of tour wins as well as finish in the green jersey... but instead they want to be stubborn about it and allow a number of french div B teams into the Tour. Is this the World's greatest bicycle race or France's greatest bicycle race... come on!
Jun 2, 2002 3:05 PM
|Saeco won't be in the Tour this year, there's a pretty good chance they'll be pulled out.
And.... I don't think Mario can get the green jersey 'cause he won't even finish the race. Though I'm not saying he shouldn't be there.
|He finished the Giro||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jun 2, 2002 6:01 PM
|He finished the Giro strongly... why is finishing the Tour unrealistic?
|2 reasons (Well, 3)||look271|
Jun 3, 2002 1:28 PM
|1) He doesn't like the race.
2) He NEVER has finished it.
3) He won't be invited.
|Jean Marie LeBlanc said...||Qubeley|
Jun 2, 2002 3:27 PM
|Jean Marie LeBlanc said he will consider Mecatone Uno if Pantani can do well in the Giro; Saeco might be kicked out of Tour because Simoni is gone. So there is definitely space for another team, I think there is a very good chance Water and Soap will be given the ticket in the last minute.|
Jun 2, 2002 3:48 PM
|It's true that Super Mario is on top form, but there is no way he could have one a stage of that race without his flawless team, especially Giovanni Lombardi. Both great riders and i hope to see him in Le Tour to give Zabel a run for his money, because that's probably the only competition up for grabs...|
Jun 2, 2002 4:00 PM
|Mario had no real challegers after McEwen left. Zabel will win because Cippo, even if he goes to the Tour, won't finish it. Team Coast would be a better choice. Would be fun to see Zabel, Cippo and McEwen go at it, though!|
|Cipo is a fraud in the tour, LeBlanc is right to shut him out..||Djudd|
Jun 2, 2002 5:18 PM
|Though highly talented and very entertaining Cipo has disrespected the Tour and his various teams in the Tour. We all know how...HE DOES NOT FINISH!!! He even faked an injury to get out of riding the mountains. The joke is that he acts surprised and hurt that is likely not to be in. Notice none of his protestations include why he doesn't finish. Save tour spots for those who want to ride down the Champs Elysee.|
|Do you have to finish the Olympic road race to come back?||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jun 2, 2002 6:05 PM
|Thats my question. Your country sends you to the Olympics to ride in the Olympic road race. Are you sent there to win or are you sent there to finish? What if you work so hard trying to win that you cannot finish due to getting lapped and pulled. Its a DNF whether the rules pulled you or not. Mario COULD finish. Whether he'd be under the cap or not is anyones guess. But the thing is he's a sprinter!!! Sprinting takes first priority to him not finishing.
Jun 3, 2002 6:17 AM
|If everybody knows that you're not going to even try to win the Olympic road race, I don't know why your Country would send you (to get good publicity for the country?)
We all know that you're a 'sprinter' and so you empathize with Cipo'; but as long as sprinting takes first priority for him, maybe he should focus on the Classics, or maybe even go over to the track. Why invite him, and his team, to a Grand Tour that they will not contest? The flat stages will be more interesting without him there, as his teams always shut down any good breakaways, and the mountains won't notice his absence.
In short, I'm happy they didn't invite him, at least those Jean Delatour riders will mix things up in all 21 stages, instead of just the last 1k of 7 stages.
|Opinion drives this board!!!||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jun 3, 2002 9:35 AM
|I respect your opinion. And yes I am a sprinter(not a "sprinter"). So I do empathize with Cipo. I always get whooped up the hills but when it comes to a sprint I return the whooping. And yes Cipo's team shuts down any good breakaways but they also provide for an amazing sprint finish. Thats what I enjoy most about the tour.
Jun 3, 2002 10:09 AM
|Sprints can be exciting but more often for me they are boring as hell. Like watching the last 5 minutes of a baseketball game. Might as well screw the first 150km and have a standing sprint at a drag race track. Give me a mountain stage any day.|
|And I'm sure you'll remember their names... :o)||bartali|
Jun 3, 2002 10:27 AM
|Cipo is a fraud in the tour - I agree||gregario|
Jun 3, 2002 8:48 AM
|I wholeheartedly agree. What's the point of inviting a team whose "big gun" won't even be in the race after the first week?|
Jun 2, 2002 6:03 PM
|Lance Armstrong is always in top form but his teammates undoubtedly help him win. PERIOD.
|Idle speculations ...||Merckx fan|
Jun 2, 2002 5:45 PM
|I heard someone opine that any team employing Cipo will never be invited to the Tour because the frenchies don't want to deal with the hordes of rowdy tifosi he would draw.
Another aquaintance thinks Lance is behind it -- seems he doesn't want Cipo getting a lot of ink in the early stages, he wants attention focused on HIM. My 'source' (and I'm using that term very loosely) says Lance threatened to sit out the Tour if Cipo was in it.
|unlikely Lance cares about Cipo...||Djudd|
Jun 2, 2002 5:52 PM
|or would sit out the TdF because Cipo rides. Did I say unlikely? Impossible!!!|
Jun 2, 2002 6:07 PM
|If Lance wouldn't ride the tour because Cipo was in it I'd lose all respect for him. Thats like Cipo not riding because Lance makes the tour to fast and hence the time cut to hard. Come on!!!
|unlikely Lance cares about Cipo...||Merckx fan|
Jun 3, 2002 4:37 AM
|I agree Lance would never actually skip the Tour. But imagine if the threat were made, and you ran the Tour. Would you call the bluff? Take even a tiny chance on losing Lance and gaining all those maniacal tifosi?|
|Hes not going...||longfellow68|
Jun 3, 2002 2:42 AM
|Cipo said he doesn't want to go, and I'm sure LeBlanc doesn't want him even though they got 7 stage wins in the Giro (6 Cipo, 1 Lombardi).
I'm worried he'd be to tired to be in best form to challenge Zabel, Kirsipuu & McEwen.
|With all the politics... he should have no desire||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jun 3, 2002 6:08 AM
|I'm not suprised in the least he does not want to go. I hope he wins the World Championships this year. That would be cool.
|Has Cipollini ever won anything good?||TJeanloz|
Jun 3, 2002 6:33 AM
|Because I am bored, I reviewed Cipollini's career palmares and, frankly, I'm unimpressed. Aside from Tour and Giro stage wins, which were in the easiest stages in the race (it's not like he's won any climbs up Mt. Ventoux), he really doesn't have ANY impressive victories. A couple of Ghent-Wevelegems, and that's about it. No real classics wins, no world championships, no olympics; so tell me, what makes this guy any more than the male Anna Kournikova of cycling?|
|Has Cipollini ever won anything good?||mr_spin|
Jun 3, 2002 6:44 AM
|If you weren't a respectable poster, I'd think this was a troll!
First, you forgot Milan-San Remo. That's a real classic win. And Ghent-Wevelegem is the goal of every sprinter, and Cipo has one it twice.
Second, he's purely a sprinter. He's not like Zabel, who can do the hardman thing and win Amstel Gold, 3rd in Paris-Roubaix, etc. As far as pure sprinters go, he is one of the greatest there ever was. Not to mention the most colorful.
Cipollini bores me sometimes the win seems automatic. He puts his guys on the front, and that's it. Race over. There's something amazing about it, but I rarely wake up early to watch sprint finishes. I'm kind of glad he's not in the Tour for that reason.
|MSR, barely impressive,||TJeanloz|
Jun 3, 2002 6:51 AM
|Milan San Remo is a good bike race to win, no doubt, but its position as the first classic of the year, and the way the race has shaped up lately make it less impressive a victory than it once was. But I am willing to give you that it is a quality win. But a lot of guys have wins of that quality or better.|
|Milan San Remo.||Len J|
Jun 3, 2002 6:50 AM
|He's a specialist. But I have to say that a Chippollini lead out is a pretty special corrdinated dance that I think we take for granted. My wife, who doesn't follow cycle racing, was half watching the Giro one night when Cippo won & got excited watching the leadout. Asked me all kinds of questions & wondered how they trained for it etc. Seeing it through her eyes made me realize how I was taking it for granted.
As far as the tour goes, I'd love to see Telecom & Aqua-Sapone vieing for control of the leadout & then watch Zabel & Cippo fight for the win.
|people are often bored by those who make it look easy.||aet|
Jun 3, 2002 7:37 AM
|i used to hear the same thing said about jordan and the bulls and i still hear the same thing said about lance. the these guys are gifted. you gotta face it.|
|Has Cipollini ever won anything good?||key|
Jun 3, 2002 8:00 AM
|Hummmmm..... well last I checked Anna K has never won anything! Cipo has 170+ wins!, now you can say that those might not all be classics but come on. 40 Giro victories, 12 or more Tour victories..
And its a tragedy that he won't be in the tour. If you appreciate the sprits not having Cipo at the top of his game, with Zabel and steels will be a real loss. Plus it also makes it much more difficult for Lance, becase Cipo's team can really control the flat stages and possible prevent those wild long escapes.
|Seriously are you a dumba$$?||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jun 3, 2002 9:32 AM
|I apologize for the topic subject but that comment upset me. You don't respect Cipo for never winning a mountain stage like up Mount Ventoux. Come on! Thats like saying the Olympic track sprint champion should be able to win the Tour. Its comparing apples and oranges. Cipo is a SPRINTER. NOT A CLIMBER! It's impossible to be the best in the world at both... Thats like saying Armstrong should be able to win the flat stages where the final sprint hits speeds of 70 km/h. Come on!!!
Also I don't think Cipo has ever focused on one day races. He is however focusing on Worlds this year though. I wish the best of luck to him.
-Nick (sympathetic with Cipo as he can't climb either as he's a sprinter to)
|How about some others,||TJeanloz|
Jun 3, 2002 10:23 AM
|It's nice that you resort to petty name calling, that's swell.
Why has he never won Paris-Roubaix, a race that ends on a VELODROME? He has 1 Classics victory- and it took him almost 15 years to get.
Basically, he's a cleanup rider, taking a bunch of races that the really great bike riders don't care about. He is an EXCELLENT sprinter; the best I have ever seen. But a sprint does not a great bike racer make. I like the guy, I just don't think he's a 'great' bicycle racer. I think it's rediculous that he parades around with the "I've won more Giro stages than Merckx" attitude, when Merckx won stages that mattered, he won stages that none of the contenders cared about.
History will remember him for his flamboyance- not his results, because his results really aren't that great.
|My apologies but I agree and disagree||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jun 3, 2002 7:48 PM
|I had to get your attention! Sorry for the name calling!!!
Just because your a sprinter doesn't make a difference whether the sprint takes place on a velodrome or not so I ignore that statement.
And he's not a cleanup rider. The GC riders can't contend for flat stage wins nor is it worth their energy when someone like Cipolini can whoop them in a sprint anyway. What if winning a stage took a minute off your GC. Then what?
I like Cipo's demeanor, although sometimes arrogant he is a spectacle of the sport and when he retires I will miss him. I'm glad you agree he's an excellent sprinter as well. Thank you.
|If the time bonus was bigger,||TJeanloz|
Jun 4, 2002 4:05 AM
|If there was, say a five minute bonus for winning a stage, do we think that Cipo' would ever get a shot at it? Do I think his team could hold the race together? No. He's a great sprinter, but the sprints are really only contested by 4 or 5 guys- none of whom get the same support he does; Hincapie and Zabel both have to work for their leaders first, and sprint second, with fewer teammates on the leadout.|
|I don't post here often but...||bartali|
Jun 3, 2002 10:32 AM
|What's gotten into you? I used to respect your opinion but your negativity lately has made me change mine about you. Milano-San Remo not impressive? You're turning into a troll.|
|My question is only,||TJeanloz|
Jun 3, 2002 10:36 AM
|We treat Cipo like a superstar, and he acts like one, but my question, and I think it's valid, is: Is he really that good? Is he as good as, say Zabel? Via self-promotion, he makes out like he's a superhero, but are the results really there? I don't see that they are.
What has Cipollini done to make him a 'great' rider, who should be insulted by not getting a Tour invite? That is my question.
|My question is only,||bartali|
Jun 3, 2002 12:18 PM
|Is he that good? Yes. Is he as good as the all time greats? Of course not. But he is arguably the greatest sprinter the sport has seen.
Come on. I think your being a bit jealous quite frankly. You say self promotion? What self promotion? The Italian media (and cycling fans) LOVE the guy. He's good looking, likeable, honest, and a decent man. He was one of the first to testify against Casagrande last week for punching the Colombian.
As to the Tour, who cares if he hates LeBlanc and detests the control freak he has become? I actually believe there is more to this than we know.
LeBlanc snubbed the Italians by not inviting Cipo and Pantani last year. So what did the Giro organizers do? They didn't invite a single French team to this year's Giro. LeBlanc then turns around and doesn't invite Cipo to the Tour after he wins Milano-San Remo and the Ghent-Wevelgem. It's turned into a big pissing match and quite frankly I can't blame Cipo for saying "screw you" to the Tour.
In conclusion, you've made an assumption based solely on your perception of Cipo based on his image. That's your mistake.
|with as much as I like Cipo||cyclopathic|
Jun 3, 2002 7:53 PM
|I have to agree with TJ. TdF is a stage race, /not a week of sprint stages/ and Cipo never finished it.
Putting "pissing" and "french" parts aside LeBlanc has to protect tour image, and with Cipo banished others know they'd better ride it all.
|with as much as I like Cipo||bartali|
Jun 4, 2002 5:29 AM
|I don't mean to offend but that is just rubbish. What does LeBlanc gain by getting Cipo to go into the Alps? It's absurd.
This is a pissing match between the French organizers of the Tour and the Italian organizers of the Giro. Cipo is just a side show to all of this.
|Cippolini - no business being in Tour||gregario|
Jun 3, 2002 8:45 AM
|Cippolini has no business being in the Tour. He never gets anywhere near the mountains in the Tour and drops out. I see that as disrespecting the race. He has stated that he wants to go for the green jersey but always finds some excuse to quit and spend the rest of the month on the beach. Yet, he is able to finish the Giro. Frankly, I find his victories to be boring. Yeah, he's fast, and arguably among the best sprinters in the history of the sport (although some old pros disagree and don't like him) but he doesn't respect the Tour, the organization and has said he WOULDN'T SHOW UP EVEN IF HE WERE INVITED!!!|
|Cippolini - no business being in Tour||key|
Jun 3, 2002 11:25 AM
|Cipo has no business being in the tour, but lets take five shitty French teams instead. He and Leblanc have this thing going and thats why he says he won't show up. But the guy has finished the last two Giro's and there are a few mountains to ride over in that race.
So if you would rather watch the Jean Delatour team then Cipo, I guess we know what type of racing you like. Personally I would take Cipo and the level of competition he brings to the spints in the tour, then dilute it with more sub-par teams.
Jun 3, 2002 11:32 AM
|I respect the choice of Jean Delatour- they kissed LeBlanc by racing well in the Midi-Libire, and they have a former world champion at the helm (Brochard). I think, on the whole, they will contribute to the race over 21 days far more than Aqua e Sappone would have.|
Jun 3, 2002 1:02 PM
|your right, they rode one good race. They also have a member of from the heart of the 98 Festina scandle. Aqua Sapone team has wins in MSR, GW, did will at Flanders. Cipo and Lombardi have tons of wins this season, but lets take a team that had one good race.
Even if Cipo says he won't go, make him the bad guy and have him not accept. But don't settle for another marginal team.
Jun 3, 2002 1:09 PM
|But Jean Delatour did well in a STAGE race, and a stage race promoted by the Societe Tour De France no less. If Aqua e Sapone had kissed the right butts, they'd be in the Tour, but because they chose to anger LeBlanc, they're out. They made their bed- and I'm betting they're going to try to get as much press out of their exclusion as they would have out of their inclusion.|
Jun 3, 2002 2:40 PM
|Well last I checked the Giro is a BIG stage race! and I agree the Cipo isn't playing this politically very well, not even trying really. But Aqua Sapone would make the tour a much livley show then Jean Delatour.
The real losers here are the fans, because if you tell me you would rather watch Jean Delatour then A & S at the tour come on. Lets wait till July and see what they do, the pressure is on them to try to do something now!
Jun 4, 2002 4:09 AM
|The Giro is not organized by the Societe, if it were, things would probably be different (like A&S wouldn't have been allowed to start it either).
The fans, IMHO, are the winners in this round. Brochard will make moves. He will attempt long breakaways that will shake up the GC. A&S would prevent long breakaways, and keep the GC as in-line as possible, meaning Postal will have to do no work, and Lance is virtually assured victory.
I think the race on the whole is more exciting without Cipo', though the sprints are, admittedly, less spectacular.
Jun 3, 2002 11:39 AM
|why can Cippolini make it over the Dolomites but not the Alps? If I was the organizer I wouldn't invite a team whose star quits after the first week. It's as simple as that. Plus, HE SAID HE WOULND'T COME EVEN IF HE WERE INVITED! So, if you believe that the whole argument is moot.|
|re: Cipo wins the purple jersey!!! But still not going to Tour..||NJRoad|
Jun 3, 2002 11:39 AM
|I tend to agree with all of the below and add the following:
1)Lance has succeeded when his team is not firing on all cylinders (I'm sure some of the real hardcore road racing fans here can tell you exactly which stage of which year.
2)The fact that the TdF is the World's most famous race does not change the fact that France governs the race for the good of France first and foremost. It is not operated by the UCI or the IOC, it is governed by the Soceite.
Jun 3, 2002 9:57 PM
|"It is not operated by the UCI or the IOC, it is governed by the Soceite."
...and there in is the problem with cycling. It would be like each individual race track on the NASCAR circuit deciding what NASCAR stars they wanted and who they wanted to snub in favour of some local boys. Don't care for Gordon and you own Daytona - no invite for him.
The problem with cycling is everything is owned by everyone else and they arbitrarily make their own rules. The UCI needs to throw down the guatlet for real and lay it out. If you want to hold a santioned UCI race then you automatically put in the top teams. None of this shit about skipping over a Div I team to add a few National Div II teams. Come on - the races are international so make your advertising more international. Hell, maybe if you actaully let more countries participate you might be able to get bigger advertisers from other countries. As it is now they complain about lack of advertising money and then keep the field so French orintated who else but French companies would want to touch it???
As for Cipo - come on. He is one of the all time great sprinters and a hall of fame cyclist. Yeah, he didn't win a big tour and maybe not so many classics but that is not what is does. He is a sprinter and it is a disapline just like GC, Climing or TT. Do you discount Rickey Hendersons' greatness (1395 career stolen bases - a record that will likely never be touched) because he can't belt homers like Hank Aaron or pitch like Cy Young??? NO because you see they all played different roles.
Jean Delatour is a turd. This team will do nothing in the TdF unless they luck into a Yellow Jersey like BonJour did last year. They have nobody and just because they did good in a French race with French teams while everyone else was at the Giro means jack.
With or without Cipo the TdF will have its sprint finishes. But without him then it will not be hard to tell who the winner will be. Just like in the Giro - it will be a one sided afair - which is far more boring than seeing two of the worlds greatest sprinters go head to head.