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Another Ti Question(11 posts)

Another Ti Questiongarhead
May 31, 2002 5:31 AM
Like many here I am considering a Ti frame from a well known regional (PA.) builder. My questions are about Ti tubing & what particular words mean when looking at their technical proposal. How do these specs compare to industry norms.
FWIW the frame weighs out @ 3.0 lbs
Here you go:

1)3A1/V2 Straight gauge grade 9 seamless ovalized tubing

2) 6A1/4V CNC vertical dropouts

3) 6A1/4V BB shell

4) Are these top notch specs???

Thank you in advance
Well...szybki
May 31, 2002 6:05 AM
Technically speaking, the straight guage tubing being used is not "top notch". Most builders are using butted tubing on their top of the line frames, lighter and just as stiff. A lot of other factors need to be considered, these are just generalizations. Give us more info, weight, height, intended use, etc. And you'll get more relevant feedback.
re: Another Ti QuestionJuanmoretime
May 31, 2002 6:07 AM
The frame material as far as the drop outs and bb shell go is the stongest ti alloy. A lot of frame builders go 3.25. The long term effect on those high stress area's using 3.25 is questionable. Is this a very small frame or compact design? Usually to get a 3 lb ti frame, you need butted and machined tubes unless it's a very small or compact frame. There is nothing wrong with straight gauge tubes, I ride a frame with them, it's just the weight spec is kind of hard to swallow.
re: Another Ti Questiongarhead
May 31, 2002 6:50 AM
Here is some additional input. I am a recreational rider only. Century's etc... I'm middle aged (47) & overweight (6.0 & 220 lbs)

What is the difference between butted & machined vs what I noted in my original post? Thanks again
try this:Jekyll
May 31, 2002 7:06 AM
http://www.merlinbike.com/english/technology/butting_tubes.html - pretty good synopsis of butting as well as many other Ti issues (with a touch of marketing sprinkled in as well).
re: Another Ti QuestionJuanmoretime
May 31, 2002 8:03 AM
To answer your question. When tubing is butted and machined, material is removed from the inside and out to make it lighter. The tubing is left thicker on the ends where tyhe welds are. Straight gauge tubing has the same wall thickness through out the tube. Not a bad thing, just slightly heavier. From your own description of yourself staight gauge tubing is probably the way to go. I just don't buy the three pound frame weight.
re: try this site..pa rider
May 31, 2002 7:51 AM
http://www.sevencycles.com/Main.html and technology. I'm in the market for a ti bike, but going to wait until next year to get one in the spring. Need a new MTB, so funds are being redirected. I made changes to my c-dale, until I need a new bike, not like want a new bike.

I test road seven and merlin, looked at spectrum (e-mailed Tom Kellog and went to Allentown to see his shop), e-mailed sampson, and looked at eddie merckx.

I found at one mtb race, at bluemarsh, about a company called sniper racing, from palmyara, who started to make ti mtb and road bikes two years ago.

Seven told me for heavy riders over 200+ to get straight gauge tubing because they can make bikes stiffer for you. I found their information gave me better understanding of the difference of two materials. I got good information from them and found it was worth the time I spent researching.

Hope this helps.

Emory
THANK YOUgarhead
May 31, 2002 4:21 PM
Thanks everyone. Great advice for sure. The folks at Seven were also very helpful.
At my size the stright gauge seems to be the right design & the use of 6/4 Ti in the BB shell, dropouts & STI mounts is a extra plus at the price point I'm paying.
THANK YOUgarhead
May 31, 2002 4:29 PM
Thanks everyone. Great advice for sure. The folks at Seven were also very helpful.
At my size the stright gauge seems to be the right design & the use of 6/4 Ti in the BB shell, dropouts & STI mounts is a extra plus at the price point I'm paying.
And then there's tube shapeKerry
May 31, 2002 4:27 PM
Top notch tubing is also shaped. This can mean ovalized, flared, vertically ovalized on one end and horizontally ovalized on the other, tapered, etc. This idea was someowhat popularized (and maybe originated) in the early 80s by Serotta with their Colorado Concept steel tubing bikes. It has been adopted by some high end Ti builders. The LiteSpeed Vortex is an obvious example of this approach, with most of the tubes on the bike somehow shaped other than just a simple tube.
And then there's tube shapegarhead
May 31, 2002 4:33 PM
Yes the frame builder uses ovalized tubing says it increases lateral stiffness. I'm getting jazzed now.