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Don't men who cycle want more women on the road...(59 posts)

Don't men who cycle want more women on the road...imthehotone
May 29, 2002 7:51 AM
A good friend of mine who rides alot suggested that I might meet men on the road...not my experience so far. Alot of times they'll do things like pedal their asses off to pass me then ride in front of me no handed as if to make sure I know they're just "coasting". I didn't think that riding on the bike path (vs. mountains...roads...)should be such a competitive "race course"; I mean there are pedestrians, roller bladers, dog walkers, unpredictable children.
Then there are the guys pass me going downhill (they're heavier)...then can't hold it through the straightaway.
I have certainly met very friendly roadies on tours; but the bike path seems to bring out the worst in you men!
come to Ann Arbor, MI ;)weiwentg
May 29, 2002 7:58 AM
JUST KIDDING.
Quite frankly, I'd like to see fewer women in our rides...Cima Coppi
May 29, 2002 8:10 AM
Rarely have I met up with women who improve upon the group dynamics of a ride. They rarely take turns on the front, they cannot hold a straight line, and they are brake happy. I have had more near crashes as a result of the actions of the women who ride in our group. Also, I have never met other riders who are more rude, because the women automatically assume we are going to hit on them. They say nothing to the guys, and just gossip amongst themselves for the ride duration. I am not looking to meet women on rides as I am married.

This is not to say they are all bad, as I have ridden with a few women who are great. For the most part, I am much more content in male only groups.

CC
Quite frankly, I'd like to see fewer women in our rides...imthehotone
May 29, 2002 8:25 AM
That's too bad...and maybe that's why I don't ride in an all women's club. What's a gal to do when she just wants some comeraderie, doesn't like gossip and wants to continue to improve in the sport!
Amen, sistah!rideslikeagirl
May 29, 2002 9:22 AM
I relish my "on" days when I can pull the pack or leave them in the dust when we get competitive.

I don't like riding with some of the guys who wouldn't know how to wheel about to save their lives. It doesn't stop them from trying tho- And that doesn't stop me from dropping off the back for safety's sake.

Admittedly, I don't ride with a race group - but I will someday. And, hopefully, if those guys share Cima's attitude, they'll keep it to themselves. Or be good enough to help me improve.
This has nothing to do with attitude on the part of the guys!!Cima Coppi
May 29, 2002 9:56 AM
Again I will point out the issues I have had with most (by all means not every) woman I have ridden with. Some of these are pointed out by other men who have responded to the original poster. The club for which I am a member has Tuesday and Thursday night rides. 30+ riders of both sexes show up each night. Before the group starts out, we break up into ride levels; a fast group (non-racing), and medium group, and a slow group. I ride in with the fast group, and on every occasion there are 3-4 women who cannot hang in there, and they complain that the pace too fast. This slows the group down while we wait for them to catch up. We even had a woman on a ride last week who blew out here tire, and would not fix it because she had just had her nails done earlier that day. If a guy made an excuse like that (which I have yet to see one do), then the group would leave him in the dust. Because it was a woman, everyone came to her rescue.

I applaud women who put in their share of the work on the ride, and I welcome them to ride with me. On the other hand, if you cannot hang with the group you're riding with, drop down to another group and do not hold the rest of us back.
Agree - if you can't hang, don't complain- get stronger! nmrideslikeagirl
May 29, 2002 10:20 AM
So, why don't you just drop them?Kristin
May 29, 2002 10:43 AM
I don't get why you think this is just women. I've seen weak men try to ride with the fast group too. Doesn't your club have written paces that define terms like fast, medium and slow? Ours does, and FAST = 20+ MPH AVG. The understanding is that if you can't do 20+ then you get dropped. Its expected. It happens to anyone--male or female--who can't keep up.

I supose that if this were new member who misunderstood or over-estimated their ability, then it would be a nice gesture to slow the group down and help them out. But if they try to hang week after week and can't, just drop them. They'll figure it out. You give them a map don't you?
Our club's policy is not to drop riders...Cima Coppi
May 29, 2002 1:55 PM
Let me first explain that I am new to the area I live in, and I rely on the group for directions during the ride. The club does have set standards for what is slow, medium and fast on group rides. It is often the ride leader's decision to stop and wait for the straglers to catch up. If I knew the roads well enough and if others were wiling, I would keep going when the others stop to wait. Most of the time, everyone in the group is willing to sit up and wait, leaving me with little choice but to do the same.

There is no doubt that there are males in the club who are dropped as much as the women. The difference is they do not complain about it, or they will recognize they are holding the group back, and go off on their own. The women in the club do not like to ride alone, so they are content to slow the rest of us down. In my opinion, it is the responsibility of the ride leader to decide what course of action to take, and I will not argue with the leader in an area I am unfamiliar with.

CC
CC for what it's worth I agree with youlonefrontranger
May 29, 2002 2:17 PM
I agree, there's a double standard, see my below posts about that. I personally have no patience with riders (of either gender) who whine, cry and can't or won't take responsibility for their own fate in a group ride of any given pace. To me this is just another irritating brand of "Fred / poseur" behavior. The guys I group ride with on occasion are mostly racers. They have a somewhat modified no-drop policy, but it's also understood that anyone is welcome to buzz on home if they can't or don't want to wait up. We typically have 2 set "regrouping" points on any given ride so that it doesn't get too frustrating.

I personally feel quite guilty when I slow someone else down, and I just don't want the angst and resentment that comes from screwing with someone else's training session. This is partly why I train a lot by myself or with one or two training partners. Unless I know my group or training partner doesn't care about waiting up, when I start to get cooked, I quietly tell someone that I'm OK on my own and don't wait up, then I sit up. The people I ride with all know me pretty well and are cool with the fact that I'm perfectly happy with and capable of riding home alone.
(derisive snort)weiwentg
May 29, 2002 8:31 AM
that's due to inexperience. caused in part, I'll bet, by a hesitancy to go for group rides with snobbish men.
sorry if I sound harsh. but this is a form of blaming the victim. I hate that.
bike path?mr_spin
May 29, 2002 8:12 AM
If my local bike path is representative of all bike paths, the only way you'll meet anyone on a bike path is if you run into them! Unless you are starring in a romantic comedy and you run into say, Hugh Grant, I don't recommend that approach.
bike path?imthehotone
May 29, 2002 8:20 AM
point taken...however I guess it would be nice to experience a comraderie; like the guys who nod as you ride by; than alot of the rudeness I've experienced of late.
bike path?mr_spin
May 29, 2002 8:36 AM
Don't confuse rudeness with total concentration on the task at hand. I can get pretty tense riding a bike path because of all the idiots out there who are basically obstacles to avoid. Often you can't just ride defensively and survive. Sometimes you have to be Machiavellian and go on the offensive to bypass problems likely to happen. I try to check out all the women along the way (discreetly of course - dark glasses are ideal), but my eyes rarely will wander too far from where I'm pointed.

Wanna meet guys on the bike path? Get rollerblades and wear short shorts.
I've met nice guys on the bike pathKristin
May 29, 2002 10:57 AM
And I used to ride a Trek 720 no less! Of course, I wasn't really out to meet anyone; I was just out to enjoy the weather and some scenery. Once, I rode 45 miles (a long way for me at the time) and my legs got all cramped up. At one stop, I met a nice roadie who recognized that I was in a lot of pain and offered to pull me the last 6 miles home. I never encountered much rudeness on that path.
I've met nice guys on the bike pathimthehotone
May 29, 2002 11:06 AM
Interesting your post...I used to ride a 10 year old day glow orange Trek... I will never forget as I'm finishing 60 miles on the road where everyone else was on road bikes a roadie shouting "GOOD JOB" realizing I was riding my heart out. I got more nods and smiles when I was on that bike than I do on on my new road bike!
Personally...a sexist response...MrCelloBoy
May 29, 2002 8:21 AM
a nice set of female glutes in spandex is a wonderful inspiration on a century or longer ride.
I'd LOVE more women.
Personally...a sexist response...raboboy
May 29, 2002 11:37 AM
I second that opinion.
I enjoy seeing women out on the bike path, street wherever, and I am always ready with a smile, hand-wave, and 'beautiful day, isn't it?'-type comment. Perhaps the men where you live are just stooopid. :)
Can't comment on having a woman in a riding group, because I don't do group rides. Usually just me, sometimes my wife, whom I also appreciate in spandex, particularly her ONCE team kit.
yes, but different experienceDougSloan
May 29, 2002 8:35 AM
I've found that around here, guys sort of go out of their way to help the women riders. I once pulled one home after 80 miles of mountains on a 100 mile hart training ride (after she kicked my butt on the hills, but I was faster on the flats). I've seen lots of guys do it, but then I think we'd all do the same for a guy, too.

Most of the women riders I meet aren't very talkative. Maybe that's just the personality type that is attracted to bike racing.

For the most part, I don't treat women riders any differently than the guys. I certainly don't try to show off, as many of them can beat me.

Bike paths are another story. If you are seriously riding, avoid them. I ride them only to get through a certain area when necessary, or at the beginning or end of a ride for warm up/down.

It's hard to accurately generalize. In another group or area, your experience might be vastly different.

Doug
yes, but different experienceimthehotone
May 29, 2002 8:43 AM
Thanks Doug...you're type is probably why I've become psyched about the sport! My personality type is not overly obsessed about it though. I mean I love tennis, fly-fishing, a good game of ping-pong...
And the bike path thing is because I'm also gainfully employed and when I can squeeze in a couple hours I have to ride it to one of the two resevoirs...I see Vaughters on it once in a while!
drop the b*st*rdslonefrontranger
May 29, 2002 9:17 AM
... just kidding. It's hard to do if you're female, but EXTREMELY rewarding when you can pull it off on some total roadie jerk obsessed by the scent of his own testosterone. I managed a coup not too long ago on some helmet-less fool who ran a stop sign and irked a bunch of drivers. I'm small, blonde, not incredibly fit-looking, was carrying a big commuter backpack at the time, and dropped him like a load of dirty laundry going uphill into a headwind, so I imagine his ego took a beating.

FWIW, I will also agree in some regards with the poster who accused women of being the squirrels in the pack and causing havoc. Most do. Most will never improve because they're afraid to ask questions or find a mentor / big brother type. They are too intimidated by 1) the attitudes and aggression they get and 2) the speed and fear factor in a men's peloton. This is caused by a number of issues, some are social, some are physiological and I won't get into them because my posts are long enough as it is.

Most women getting into biking simply don't have the benefit of thoughtful mentoring, because women (and more importantly their spouses) simply don't believe that male mentors can be buddies and friends with no strings attached. I was *extremely* lucky to be brought into the sport by a big, well-organized, well-run racing team with a diversity of experience, speed levels, etc... There were one or two Cat II's (expert level racers) on the team who would go out of their way to tow me back on, push me up hills, explain (without hollering at me) what I was doing wrong, and right, and how to improve on my skills and training. There was another one who was a bit of a chauvinistic jerk and would try stuff like boxing me in or riding too close to intimidate me, which simply taught me how to hold a line or ride in the grass, then shoulder him away when he crowded too close.

I look back at those experiences, and I believe that's why I stuck with it so long and am as strong as I am today. I actually enjoyed myself during those years of driving 2 or more hours just to do hard, thankless spring races in the rain in a big scary squirrelly field of Cat IV/V men because there were no women's races. I got bumped, pushed, yelled at, cursed at, cornered into, knocked down, put over curbs and barricades, crashed on top of and lost a fair amount of skin and bike parts to the learning curve - just like all the guys do their first couple seasons. My teammates always supported me, included me in their team strategic plan no matter how weak I was compared to them, and never, ever gave me the feeling that I was a second-class citizen or that I shouldn't be out there dicing it up with the rest of them.
drop the b*st*rdsimthehotone
May 29, 2002 10:17 AM
You absolutely deserve the respect you've earned!! Thanks for the post!
On a lighter note: I actually rode a tandem with one of those testosterone guys whom I couldn't keep up with BUT HE WANTED to ride with me..?!!..and have been earning his respect ever since. We had so much fun passing people going uphill (oh yes we did!) and then providing for the ride of a lifetime downhill!!
You have to look at the hard science of it....muncher
May 29, 2002 8:36 AM
It is proven fact that, in any group of male cyclists, for every cm3 of co2 that is produced, 43.8 m3 of testosterone is released to atmosphere, at an average pressure of 7 bar.

Which is why, whenever a group sees women on the road ahead, the pace always increases by at least 6 mph over the first 3' after the women are sighted, and the average gut-pressure-per-sq-inch-of-jersey decreases in direct proportion as stomaches are sucked in and chests expanded. The lead rider will always pass within .036 of an inch of the ourside woman, to ensure maximum fright factor/appearance of speed.

I suppose the same thing happens mutatis mutandis with single riders and small groups. Try yelling "coming through" before buring past with your lycra-clad butt out of the saddle - I bet you get more chat then...

Just a theory based on many years of experience ;>)
Thanks for the scientific explanationAllisonHayes
May 29, 2002 9:16 AM
is it related to the boobon theory as well?
If you really want to see how the women are...LC
May 29, 2002 8:59 AM
then try racing with them. Occasionally they combine the women with the Masters and I found myself riding in a whole pack of them. I never heard so much bitching in my whole life. There was a constant chatter of stuff like "hold your line", don't ride here, don't ride there" and "she thinks she is so..." There was excessive braking in the corners and down steep hills too.

I had a cramp in my leg, but after my dose of excessive estrogen overload, I decided I would have to try to solo back to the men, or at least die trying!
If your object is to meet men, here's the solution & good luck!!AllisonHayes
May 29, 2002 9:09 AM
"what did you ogle at before the colorado cyclist chick?": Spirito Apr-09-02, 04:27 AM

Spirito "what did you ogle at before the colorado cyclist chick?" 4/10/02 4:15pm
YEAH BABY!! I tried to point this out earlier.Sintesi
May 29, 2002 9:35 AM
More women should wear white GOGO boots and hot pants when cycling. The men will definitely not pass you and "show off."
That's the way they dressed in the early seventiesRoyGBiv
May 29, 2002 11:53 AM
Are you poking fun at how your parents dressed in the early seventies?
Shame on you!
:-)
re: Don't men who cycle want more women on the road...tarwheel
May 29, 2002 9:20 AM
I really think it's an individual thing. The regular group I ride with includes several women who are strong riders and can hang with the best of us. However, one woman who occasionally shows up drives us crazy. She can't hold a line, slows down to a snails pace on the hills, and brakes all the way downhill -- and then gets pissed if she falls behind. If it was a guy riding this way, there is no way we would put up with it. She would get dropped like a bad habit. I casually asked her one day (no hint intended) if she ever rode with a women's only ride that meets at one of the local bike shops once or twice a week. She said no, they were too slow for her. I just about laughed in her face because she slows down our group by 2-3 mph every time she joins us. That said, the other women in our group are a pleasure to ride with and could probably drop me, particularly on the hills.
where are you located?ColnagoFE
May 29, 2002 9:22 AM
Are you a member of any cycling clubs? I'd think you'd meet lots of men to cycle with that way...or switch to mountain biking or cruiser-type rides. They tend to be more social in my experience.
where are you located?imthehotone
May 29, 2002 10:27 AM
Almost bought a Colnago!
I spin indoors in the winter and meet some riders there...but lose track of them as the weather gets good.
I do not currently belong to a cycling club. I have friends that I have ridden mountain bikes with (once again a group of 12 guys, I was the only gal--one water bottle turned into a 5 1/2 hour ride in 90 degree heat in altitude) I survived as my friend met me with gatorade 1 mile away from my destination as I bonked not being able to climb the last hill. Had to be social to beg water!!
I live in Denver, near the Cherry Creek shopping center area.
re: Real men don't do bike pathsdzrider
May 29, 2002 9:55 AM
Couldn't resist that cause I hate bike paths. Show-offs are jerks regardless of gender and resented by men and women alike. Keeping a group of riders together takes some compromise from everybody as we don't all climb, descend or roll at the same speed. Do your part and most other riders will do theirs. My wife goes on group rides and has never complained of feeling unwelcome. If people ride too fast, she goes off the back because she hates to see riders waiting for her. She has also helped pull weaker riders home.
re: Don't men who cycle want more women on the road...Fender
May 29, 2002 10:40 AM
I personally enjoy riding with women and doing the mentoring/big brother thing mentioned earlier on. Last summer I would ride with a friend who was WAY SLOWER than I was, in fact she was wya slower than most women, but I enjoyed riding with her. On climbs I would ride ahead of her, finish the climb, ride back down and then set the tempo for her for the remainder of the climb. She loved it because that way she would not feel guilty for not letting me ride at my own pace, and yet I was there to help her for the remainder of the ride. We would only ride once or twice a week because of conflicting schedules, but it was great.
If I only knew of more women who need help, I would be more than happy to help them. And no, I don't intend on hitting on you.
As for the rude behaviour of some of my male companions, I can only say that sometimes it does make us a little angry, especially when we want to do a fast ride and a couple of girls are keeping us back, but I also understand that its dangerous to leave women in spandex alone on roads..heck, its dangerous for us men too.
so for slower women, try finding a group that has your same level when they ride fast, not when they have to keep up with you.
faster women, stop thinking that all men want to hit on you. most riders are either married or have a GF. there are very few horny 21 year olds like me on rides, and frankly, most of us are not interested in women who ride, particularly cause your older than us.
so in conclusion, you want to meet men who ride?? visit a bike shop and try to establish a relationship with the employees or customers. since customers are not on rides, they will probably be more willing to talk, and maybe, just maybe you can go for a morning ride to the bagel shop the next day ;)
The spandex thing...imthehotone
May 29, 2002 10:59 AM
I've heard that scenario from a very strong rider with a sense of humor no less ..."we're just trying to get out of our spandex as fast as we can!"
re: Don't men who cycle want more women on the road...dealy663
May 29, 2002 11:17 AM
Most guys wouldn't mind women riding with them if they are at a similar skill and fitness level.

I'm sure that the guys I ride with wouldn't complain at all. If you're in the greater L.A. area looking for people to ride with drop me a line!

D
Rant about being a woman cyclist....kinda off topic :)JamieB
May 29, 2002 11:22 AM
Maybe it's because I'm a woman...but I always feel like male cyclists have this "boys's club, no girlz allowed" vibe going on. Not all of them, but definitely more of them do than don't (in my experiences). In the city I lived before moving to Manhattan for vet school, there was a Wednesday night training race open to anyone at any level. I wanted to go many times, but the men who would go were all 20 years older than me and had no interest in helping me out. I am preparing to race and always keep up with my husband on intervals and long rides. I actually kicked his b*&@ on intervals last Saturday (true, he wasn't performing up to par, but it sure felt good). I'm actually fairly small, so I even drop him on some hills. When it comes right down to it, I'm the more serious cyclist. I work on my diet and don't drink soda, eat sweets, etc. He eats whatever he wants and really has no aspirations of racing anymore (he used to race about 5 years or so ago, but just isn't interested anymore). Anyway, it's hard to learn about pack dynamics without having ridden in a pack. I worry about causing a huge pile-up on my first race for that very reason. I keep a fairly good line. Yes, I do feel like I brake a little too much on the corners, but I'm working on that. Other women cyclists are hard to find to train with. I haven't seen one other woman cyclist in this town, and I'm on the bike 6 days a week. So, we are forced to ride with men and deal with the testosterone overload. I don't go to a group ride to pick up a man; I go to a group ride to train, to have fun, to kick some male a&*. I resent the post about women being a detriment to group rides. Both women and men have good days and bad days. I've met women cyclists in the past that have stopped cycling because they go into their LBS and are ignored. They go to rides and are treated as invisible. I've even experienced this. I've gone into my LBS and been completely ignored. There was no one else in the shop. A frat boy comes in 10 minutes later, and the salesmen are all over him. The guy's looking at $300 mt bikes for chrissakes. I'm looking for new cleats for my $2200+ road bike (not to sound like I'm bragging or spoiled, though. I'll being paying off that credit card for the next three decades). But, that guy will never spend as much on his bike as I will, yet I'm completely ignored. Never once asked how I'm doing. I will never shop there again, unless it's a necessity. Even when I bought my new frame, I was asked if my husband was going to build it. I was like, "No. I'm going to build it. He's going to help." Anyway, sorry to babble. It's hard being a competitive woman cyclist. It's hard to be taken seriously. Thank goodness I am so competitive, maybe I wouldn't be riding anymore either. Luckily, I respond to stuff like that in the opposite way....I'm more determined to prove myself.
Good post, Jamie!AllisonHayes
May 29, 2002 11:30 AM
In the corporate world they call it the glass ceiling.
Rant about being a woman cyclist....kinda off topic :)imthehotone
May 29, 2002 11:42 AM
Had similar experiences in bike stores...my guy friends could not believe how long it took me to find one I liked and even then I think I was just worn down by the experience that I was a sucker (he even handed my a sucker upon my purchse--true story)
I do have $$$'s but didn't want to be a poser...it just wasn't a fun experience!
what's a ho-tone? nmDougSloan
May 29, 2002 12:15 PM
LOL! hot-one. duh! nmJS Haiku Shop
May 29, 2002 12:21 PM
you interpret it your way... :-) nmDougSloan
May 29, 2002 12:22 PM
a gala tam wench pottyJS Haiku Shop
May 29, 2002 12:27 PM
A GOLD NO US
A GOLD ON US
A GOLD NOUS
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GAD OSLO UN
GAD SOLO NU
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GAD SOL UNO
GAD LOS UNO
GAD LOUS NO
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GAD SOUL NO
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DAG LOON US
DAG NOLO US
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DAG SOUL ON
DAG LOU SON
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GLAD NO SOU
GLAD ON SOU
GLAD UNO SO
GLAD NU OSO
GLAD UN OSO
GONDOLA US
GOLDA NO US
GOLDA ON US
GOLDA NOUS
GOLDA ONUS
GOLDA NU SO
GOLDA UN SO
DOUGLAS NO
DOUGLAS ON
DANG LO SOU
DANG LOO US
DANG LOU SO
GONAD LO US
GONAD LOUS
GONAD SOUL
GONADS LOU
DUGANS LOO
DUGAN LO SO
DUGAN OSLO
DUGAN SOLO
GOAD LO SUN
GOAD LO USN
GOAD SOL NU
GOAD SOL UN
GOAD LOS NU
GOAD LOS UN
GOADS LO NU
GOADS LO UN
GOUDA SOLN
DAGS LO UNO
DAGS LOO NU
DAGS LOO UN
DAGS LOU NO
DAGS LOU ON
GAUDS LOON
GAUDS NOLO
GAUDS LO NO
GAUDS LO ON
GAUD SOLON
GAUD OLSON
GAUD LO SON
GAUD LO ONS
GAUD SOL NO
GA
...mere heros...JS Haiku Shop
May 29, 2002 12:28 PM
GAUD SOL ON
GAUD LOS NO
GAUD LOS ON
LAD GON SOU
LAD NOG SOU
LAD GOON US
LAD GNU OSO
LAD GUN OSO
LAD GO NO US
LAD GO ON US
LAD GO NOUS
LAD GO ONUS
LAD GO NU SO
LAD GO UN SO
LAD GOO SUN
LAD GOO USN
LAND GO SOU
LAND GOO US
NODAL GO US
DOLAN GO US
ONLOAD GUS
ONLOAD USG
UNLOADS GO
LOAD GON US
LOAD NOG US
LOAD GNU SO
LOAD GUN SO
LOAD GO SUN
LOAD GO USN
LOAD GUS NO
LOAD GUS ON
LOAD USG NO
LOAD USG ON
LOADS GO NU
LOADS GO UN
ALOUD GONS
ALOUD SONG
LADS GO UNO
LADS GOO NU
LADS GOO UN
DUALS GOON
DUALS GO NO
DUALS GO ON
DUAL GON SO
DUAL NOG SO
DUAL GOONS
DUAL GO SON
DUAL GO ONS
AULD GON SO
AULD NOG SO
AULD GOONS
AULD GO SON
AULD GO ONS
LAUD GON SO
LAUD NOG SO
LAUD GOONS
LAUD GO SON
LAUD GO ONS
AND LOG SOU
AND LOGO US
AND GUL OSO
AND LUG OSO
AND GO LO US
AND GO LOUS
AND GO SOUL
AND GUS LOO
AND USG LOO
DAN LOG SOU
DAN LOGO US
DAN GUL OSO
DAN LUG OSO
DAN GO LO US
DAN GO LOUS
DAN GO SOUL
DAN GUS LOO
DAN USG LOO
DNA LOG SOU
DNA LOGO US
DNA GUL OSO
DNA LUG OSO
DNA GO LO US
DNA GO LOUS
DNA GO SOUL
DNA GUS LOO
DNA USG LOO
DONA LOG US
DONA GUL SO
DONA LUG SO
DONA GUS LO
DONA USG LO
ANDS GO LOU
SAND GO LOU
DANS GO LOU
SUDAN LOGO
SUDAN GO LO
ADO LONG US
ADO LUNG SO
ADO LOG SUN
ADO LOG USN
ADO LOGS NU
ADO LOGS UN
ADO SLOG NU
ADO SLOG UN
ADO SLUG NO
ADO SLUG ON
ADO GUL SON
ADO GUL ONS
ADO LUG SON
ADO LUG ONS
ADO GNUS LO
ADO GUNS LO
ADO SNUG LO
ADO SUNG LO
ADO GNU SOL
ADO GNU LOS
ADO GUN SOL
ADO GUN LOS
SODA LOG NU
SODA LOG UN
SODA GUL NO
SODA GUL ON
SODA LUG NO
SODA LUG ON
SODA GNU LO
SODA GUN LO
ADS LOG UNO
ADS LOGO NU
ADS LOGO UN
ADS GON LOU
ADS NOG LOU
ADS GNU LOO
ADS GUN LOO
ADS GO LO NU
ADS GO LO UN
SAD LOG UNO
SAD LOGO NU
SAD LOGO UN
SAD GON LOU
SAD NOG LOU
SAD GNU LOO
SAD GUN LOO
SAD GO LO NU
SAD GO LO UN
USDA LOG NO
USDA LOG ON
USDA GON LO
USDA NOG LO
SAUD LOG NO
SAUD LOG ON
SAUD GON LO
SAUD NOG LO
AUD LONG SO
AUD LOG SON
AUD LOG ONS
AUD LOGS NO
AUD LOGS ON
AUD SLOG NO
AUD SLOG ON
AUD GON SOL
AUD GON LOS
AUD NOG SOL
AUD NOG LOS
AUD GONS LO
AUD SONG LO
AUD GO SOLN
LAG DON SOU
LAG NOD SOU
LAG UNDO SO
LAG DUN OSO
LAG DO NO US
LAG DO ON US
LAG DO NOUS
LAG DO ONUS
LAG DO NU SO
LAG DO UN SO
LAG DOS UNO
LAG SOD UNO
LAG DUOS NO
LAG DUOS ON
LAG DUO SON
LAG DUO ONS
LAG DU NO SO
LAG DU ON SO
LAG DU SOON
GAL DON SOU
GAL NOD SOU
GAL UNDO SO
GAL DUN OSO
GAL DO NO US
GAL DO ON US
GAL DO NOUS
GAL DO ONUS
GAL DO NU SO
GAL DO UN SO
GAL DOS UNO
GAL SOD UNO
GAL DUOS NO
GAL DUOS ON
GAL DUO SON
GAL DUO ONS
GAL DU NO SO
GAL DU ON SO
GAL DU SOON
LANG DO SOU
LANG DUO SO
LANG DU OSO
LOGAN DO US
LOGAN DUOS
LOGAN DU SO
ALONG DO US
ALONG DUOS
ALONG DU SO
ANGLO DO US
ANGLO DUOS
ANGLO DU SO
LAGOONS DU
SLOGAN DUO
OLGA DON US
OLGA NOD US
OLGA NODUS
OLGA SOUND
OLGA DUN SO
OLGA DO SUN
OLGA DO USN
OLGA DOS NU
OLGA DOS UN
OLGA SOD NU
OLGA SOD UN
OLGA DU SON
OLGA DU ONS
GAOL DON US
GAOL NOD US
GAOL NODUS
GAOL SOUND
GAOL DUN SO
GAOL DO SUN
GAOL DO USN
GAOL DOS NU
GAOL DOS UN
GAOL SOD NU
GAOL SOD UN
GAOL DU SON
GAOL DU ONS
GOAL DON US
GOAL NOD US
GOAL NODUS
GOAL SOUND
GOAL DUN SO
GOAL DO SUN
GOAL DO USN
GOAL DOS NU
GOAL DOS UN
GOAL SOD NU
GOAL SOD UN
GOAL DU SON
GOAL DU ONS
LAGOS UNDO
LAGOS DO NU
LAGOS DO UN
LAGOS DU NO
LAGOS DU ON
GOALS UNDO
GOALS DO NU
GOALS DO UN
GOALS DU NO
GOALS DU ON
GAOLS UNDO
GAOLS DO NU
GAOLS DO UN
GAOLS DU NO
GAOLS DU ON
SLAG DO UNO
SLAG DUO NO
SLAG DUO ON
GALS DO UNO
GALS DUO NO
GALS DUO ON
LAGS DO UNO
LAGS DUO NO
LAGS DUO ON
GAUL DON SO
GAUL NOD SO
GAUL SNOOD
GAUL DO SON
GAUL DO ONS
GAUL DOS NO
GET A GRIP, MAN! (slap across the face) :-) nmDougSloan
May 29, 2002 12:31 PM
ok haiku-boylonefrontranger
May 29, 2002 12:33 PM
Looks like the Internet monkeys out there are working on their sonnets... :) Good one - you *must* have a randomizing program that allows you to do that, right? geez, I sure hope so.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy...?DougSloan
May 29, 2002 12:35 PM
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

redrum?
another take: ho-to-N-E? nmJS Haiku Shop
May 29, 2002 1:20 PM
OK and true enough (warning, generalizations within!)lonefrontranger
May 29, 2002 11:58 AM
I'll admit I have my good and bad days too and I feel your pain. Your rant (especially the LBS rant and I had to become a pro wrench to solve that one) hits close to home more than I'd like to admit, BUT...

Cima is a bit salty, agreed. What I believe he was really griping about is the double standard that exists, and that irks me too. Women are absolutely way more vocal about pace, getting dropped, etc... than men are, and they often seem to feel some sort of entitlement that the men would never expect. Women (many, not all) going fast in close quarters tend to brake too much, swerve a lot, scream, bitch and freak out whenever anyone gets too close to them. And then get their feelings hurt when the guys respond in kind.

Sorry to generalize (I'm a woman, and have been racing, coaching and promoting events for 10 years)... how to say this without getting flamed... *as a rule*, the majority of women riders regardless of experience level are HORRIBLE bike-handlers, period, because unless they've done a considerable amount of racing or riding with the guys, most of them just don't have the pack experience for it. This is due to a whole laundry list of issues; they've been intimidated out of the fast group rides, haven't had the luxury of good mentoring, were too scared to try the group rides in the first place, got the cold shoulder from the Bike Nazis when they did try, train solo all the time due to family constraints, race in very small fields that don't require being skilled... the list goes on and on and on. I can't tell you how many times I've seen instances of the strong Spinning class instructor who's never trained on a bike that requires balance, and suddenly gets a wild hair to go racing. Guess what? She's an aerobic nightmare who wins races by going off the front, upgrades without ever having to ride in a field, and never really learns pack skills or good manners. Given the choice between 50 Cat IV men and 20 Cat IV women, I'm sorry but I'll take the Cat IV men as the smoother, safer field.

Men will suffer in silence, get dropped if they have to, and don't take it personally when someone yells at them for pulling a no-brainer. Being female, it took me a bit to grow a thick hide and suck it up at first, but once I did I found that (when I can hang on) I really enjoy doing fast group rides and all that testosterone :) I take my pulls, create my own attacks when things get feisty, get dropped when I overreach, and before the group ever leaves the shop (or wherever), I tell the guy in charge that a) I have my own cell phone and know my way home and b) I don't expect anyone to worry about me if I get dropped.

Also, a men's group ride will automatically feel far more obligated to see that the lone woman in the group gets home safely. We (regardless of gender) feel no remorse at dropping that squirrelly SOB who can't follow a wheel and sprints through the paceline to take his pull. But they'd *never ever* leave their wife (or anyone else's wife) in the dust - too much sociological baggage there.

Peace - LFR
pretty much summed it upDougSloan
May 29, 2002 12:20 PM
I think you are more like the women I ride with. They pretty much just act like everyone's a cyclist, and don't distinguish much between men and women. They are respected for their riding, which is about all anyone is respected for among these groups. Half the time I don't even notice whether I'm riding next to a woman or not, until I see a ponytail hanging out the back (but then that's not so conclusive, either).

Doug
Face realitygranda
May 29, 2002 7:49 PM
Can't believe I'm saying this because for a guy I like
to complain alot, BUT... Do you realize there are like 1000000 guy riders for every girl rider? Your email is
like complaining about walking into a restaurant alone
and wondering why the waiter/waitress/food attendant is
paying so much attention to the group of 10 people making
all that noise in the corner. It's all about experience
and expectations, that group of 10 people will probably
tip better than you. So when you walk into a bike shop
people deal with you from their experience with women and
women dealing with mechanical things and it's not unfair
to assume that your going to be clueless and uninformed - most of you are. The reasons for that I imagine are
somewhat varied, but that's life.
I don't walk in some place that charges $35 for a haircut(
point being that's a lot and the place has "women things"
all around) expecting to be treated like I'm knowledgeable
about hair.
Bike shops.Sintesi
May 30, 2002 6:39 AM
If you're talking about Manhattan bike shops then I see no sexist divide. From my perspective they ignore all their customers. There is your usual array of bike shop groupies who come in everyday to shoot the sh!t, and underpaid bike staff who wouldn't know the first thing about customer service let alone care. My experience, basically, is 90% of the time I am ignored or not treated with respect everytime I go in. "Hello, may I help you?" or "I'll be right over here if you need anything." are two phrases I don't hear very often in this city.

I kind of like Bicycle Habitat but my experience there has been pretty uneven. I keep bike shop contact down to a bare minimum.
I think this world needs more women in general nmcyclinseth
May 29, 2002 12:14 PM
yep...2 girls for every guytronracer
May 29, 2002 12:29 PM
dare I say it? It was too easy, I'm sorry...so sorry.
At the same time, right? ;-) nmrideslikeagirl
May 29, 2002 12:41 PM
however they want to do it...:) nmmr_spin
May 29, 2002 12:52 PM
Really off topic!imthehotone
May 29, 2002 1:17 PM
:-)
i saw the girl of my dreams this weekend...dustin73
May 29, 2002 1:35 PM
...i never see hot female cyclists. rarely do i see any girls on bikes that are 18-21. however...she was working at Bike World in San Antonio, and she helped me decide on some glasses. the absolute most attractive female cyclist i've seen that's my age (she's maybe 21). she fit my ideal girl perfectly...i'm definately gonna have to go back to Bike World.
Two Club RidesCFBlue
May 29, 2002 3:39 PM
The first one was listed as slow and easy, my wife and I decided to go because the leader, an accomplished woman rider, has a reputation for slower, evenly paced rides. But this woman has ridden most of the way across the USA, and I believe done some competetion, but she tries to honor the posted ride speeds.

We were not prepared for the way this ride deteriorated, sprints to more closely spaced regroups, being on the tandem, this stopping and starting was a pain, so we just changed course and went off on our own. At least one other woman on the ride was dropped within the first few miles, no one, not even the ride leader was concerned, 'she knew the way'. It was my last ride with that club.

The second event went by me. I don't know who they were, they were not in team uniforms, but they were fast. We have a local route that has a 6% 3.5 climb included. I was passed like the old geezer I am by a womens cycling team. They seemed to be as hot of riders as they were looking, and their bikes were top of the line as well.

So, both extremes here...

I was laughing at some of the posts. They describe one of my favorite riding buddies, a male. On the flats we usually hang together, but in the hills I just leave him behind, with the understanding that we will regroup at the next turn.
Some Guys Need to Lighten Up...tincanman99
May 30, 2002 8:35 PM
I am a guy and have only been road cycling for 2 years. The women do have a point - there are quite a few roadies who have attitude problems. Not sure what the deal is but they need to lighten up. This is for enjoyment, your not out there building rockets, nor are you competing in the Tour de France.

I have seen guys ride in packs get so competitive - they ride like they are going to die. My answer is so what - big deal.

I take Spin classes at my gym and ALL the Spin instructors are young women in great shape. Lots of them ride outside as well. I have ridden with them a few times and they grind these most men into the ground. These women teach Spin sometimes 10+ a week. They are in amazing physical condition.

In the Spin classes they like to teach in teeny tiny bike shorts and a sport bra and not much else. Very entertaining ;). The first time I rode with one all the men were making fun of her because of what she had on - till she left them gasping for air after the first couple of miles....

As far as I am concerned you can't have enough women on bike rides. They are what makes the world go around. If your married - so what, just because you are married does not mean you can't look (discreet of course). Its eye candy, enjoy it while you can.

Now go out and ride...