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need help from you runners out there(14 posts)

need help from you runners out thereGall
May 27, 2002 10:56 PM
hello,

today i was thinking about what i wanted to accomplish next in life. i decided that i wanted to run a marathon. i found one near by that will take place on november 10.

so what and how should i train to do a marathon and still be road racer? should i train for an ironman tri and just take out the swim part and add a run or a ride or is there some better way to train for both sports?

i just dont know how to fit running and riding in my already busy schedule. any suggestions?

thanks
re: need help from you runners out thereJuanmoretime
May 28, 2002 1:46 AM
Hi Gall,

Run every other day. If your schedule allows it or cut out the bike on the day you run. You won't lose anything, just work harder on the day you ride. You will need to to a progression of long runs starting at about ten and adding two miles every long run until you reach 20. You should get at least two twenty mile long runs in before the marathon. Your last long run should be two weeks before your marathon. Long run every other week. Do the math on you progession of long runs and you will probably need to start late July, guessing. This works, I've run eight marathons using this system all under 3 hours. Good luck and any more questions, email me.
ditto that system except...SteveO
May 28, 2002 3:11 AM
once your long run exceeds 15, start pushing your long runs to every other week.

i'd like to add that if youre not currently a runner, November might really be pushing it; I wouldnt consider a november marathon unless you currently have a ~20 mile weekly base.
ditto that system except...Juanmoretime
May 28, 2002 5:42 AM
You will notice I posted all long runs to be every other week irregardless of distance. Recovery is the most important element of training.
indeed you didSteveO
May 28, 2002 6:10 AM
sorry, missed that the first time through..i even went back to double-check before i posted.

must be groggy because i missed my morning run.
what worked for metheBreeze
May 28, 2002 6:09 AM
I combined running training with cycling last summer, although I was concentrating more on 5K & 10K distances. My plan was similar to those posted. I based my training on typical running programs (search Runner's World web site for some great ones.) My approach was to keep the quality in my running miles, and use the bike more for base aerobic fitness. So I did three run workouts a week, a speed/hill day, a tempo run, and a long run; then cycled on days the scheduled called for base mile runs. I rode for 2-3X the time it would take me to do the mileage called for. For example, if I was going to run 5 miles, and it would take me 50 minutes at an easy pace, I rode for 100-150 minutes.

If you still plan to race on the bike during training, maybe you would take the opposite approach. Do your quality work in whatever your main focus is. I recommend NOT racing (bike) at all at least 4 weeks before the marathon.

I agree that a November marathon is close if you're not a regular runner. Build up those miles slowly, and check out Jeff Galloway's run/walk training approach (www.runinjuryfree.com). He can probably give you suggestions about combining run/cycle too.

Another suggestion is to try the half-marathon. It's still a real challenge and can give you a taste of what marathon training would be like.

Ride/Run on!
HowdyEJC
May 28, 2002 6:18 AM
First thing, straight away get yourself to a good running store and get fitted for a porper pair of running shoes!!!

I cannot stress that enough. Have a professional get you on a treadmill, videotape your stride and fit you to the porper shoes. This will avoid MANY injuries and problems!!!

Second, start slow and easy. You may be in grand shape for cycling, but running is a whole new game. It is incredibly difficult and painful, and you will find yourself getting frustrated at what you may perceive to be a lack of fitness. THIS IS NOT SO!!! You are going to have to build a new base for running. It is incredibly violent on the body and much harder than cycling! The bonus is that you will find your cycling strength increase almost exponentially from the running!

In regards to fitting in running and riding training into the schedule, get a good multi-sport training book and write a training regimen. I would think Joel Friel's Multisport Triathlon Bible would be a good start.

For online resources, try www.trinewbies.com for good pre-written dualthalon training programs. Good luck with it, and let us know how your training goes.

Cheers,

EJC
re:Take your timedzrider
May 28, 2002 7:20 AM
I've juggled running and riding through the years although I've never been a competitor, just a participant and very frequent finisher. Try to do your long workouts running and your hard workouts riding to maintain your road racing speed while developing your endurance for running.

Unless you have already measured lots of routes for you may want to measure your runs in hours rather than miles. It works out just fine. Your longest runs should be about 3/4 of your estimated marathon time. IMHO riding around measuring routes is a colossal waste of time.

Picture the differences in effort, pain and recovery time between doing a century in 6.5 hours and the doing one in 5 hours. The same is true running. Speed is far more painful than distance. Learn to be comfortable and feel efficient while taking your sweet ass time. Unless you think you can win it, do your first marathon to finish. If you like it, go for speed on the next one.

Good luck, have fun, and if your legs start to feel vaguely sore and tired, give 'em a day off. If that doesn't work try new running shoes.
my take:SteveO
May 28, 2002 8:29 AM
re: 'IMHO riding around measuring routes is a colossal waste of time.'

I find this to be very productive; i measured and marked NUMEROUS routes which all overlap each other; rather than marking total miles, i marked 'segment' miles.

Doing this allowed me to have great diversity in my routes (no boring out-and backs for me), while being able to 'guestimate' the time i'm on the road; I too believe in running TIMES rather than running MILES, however, when i'm on my 3 hour run, I dont want to find myself 8 miles from home at 2:50. This also keeps me from having to check my watch every 5 minutes after the first hour (for the turnaround point).

I probably have 150 miles worth of road marked. All it takes is one nice summer evening and a can of paint.
Whatever works for you.dzrider
May 28, 2002 10:32 AM
When I first started running I drove every route I ran and recorded the mileage. It no longer seems to me to be a good use of time or energy. I almost always start from home and I know how long it takes me to run or ride the enjoyable routes nearby so the fear of being 8 miles from home with 10 minutes to go is not very real.

I don't worry much about 5 or 10 minutes variance on my workouts. There is lovely park near my house with shade and well water where I can run a few minutes if I get home early. The riding near my home is pleasant and hilly enough that an added loop doesn't turn into 10 minutes of soft-pedalling. I'm compulsive enough about exercise without counting it to death.
re: need help from you runners out theret-bill
May 28, 2002 10:17 AM
This URL is a guide to the marathon training section of Hal Higdon's web-site. He is affiliated with the Chicago Marathon. There are a few different training program depending on current level of fitness, and your goals. You definitely need to put in a lot of running miles to train you legs (and the rest of your body) for the pounding they will take during the race. Riding can get you some good base endurance, but the long weekend runs are crucial. Hal is happy to answer questions via e-mail. I suggest asking him directly.

Good luck!

http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar00index.htm
re: need help from you runners out theresam-g
May 28, 2002 10:57 AM
I agree with most all of the other postings especially the need for the progressively long runs occuring every other week and the need for adequate rest. What I'd like to add is the benifit of joining a training group for the long run. I'm 52 and have run 5 marathons all under 4 hours, most recently this past May 5th. The biggest help in my training program this year has been to join a training group for the weekly long run. May I suggest joining "Team-In-Training" sponcered by the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. Not only will they help coach you through your marathon training and provide weekly group runs, but you can help a worthy cause by raising funds to fight this dreaded cancer. I'll definately join "Team-in-Training" again for next year's Flying Pig Marathon.

Now if only they'd ease up on the age/time brackets for Boston, I'd really be happy.

Sam
re: Team in Trainingbrider
May 28, 2002 12:14 PM
I'm not trying to take away from the general goals of Team in Training, but I just want to send out a general warning concerning the attitudes that some groups are portraying out there. At some events (I've heard of this at triathlons, so it may be totally different at runs), there seems to be an attitude of "I'm better than you" because of the association with Team in Training (look up some threads at Tri-Newbies Online http://trinewbies.com/phorum/list.php?f=1 ). I only put this caution out so that you can watch out for this attitude in any group that you may become associated with, and if you see it, you can sever your ties before tarnishing your reputation.
on the contrarytheBreeze
May 28, 2002 2:50 PM
I don't know what your source is, doesn't sound like first hand experience.

I just finished training for a century with the TNT program and had an excellent time! I started road riding (from mtn biking) this past fall and hadn't built up a group of people to train with. I specifically chose TNT because the participants weren't the type to try to ride someone into the ground, or leave them dropped on the route somewhere. I found my local group to be fun and welcoming. Even when I turned out to be faster than my coach!

Maybe in a larger metropolitan area one would run across a few different attitudes, just because there is a larger variety of people. Hey, there's a$$holes everywhere.

I cannot see how participating in any organization like Team In Training and the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society would "tarnish your reputation." What a cynical attitude.