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The C40 is a cheap, second class frame(46 posts)

The C40 is a cheap, second class frameDougSloan
May 23, 2002 7:44 AM
Colnago had to come up with something to up the ante, it appears. http://www.cbike.com/colnago_carbonissimo.htm

"Only" $8,600 for a complete bike and $4,850 for a frame? It doesn't even have any fancy paint job.

Has anyone seen one of these, yet? What are their (claimed) advantages over the C40? I can't tell.

Doug

P.S.: I will not be buying one.
I want one. nmNo_sprint
May 23, 2002 7:47 AM
re: The C40 is a cheap, second class frameMSA
May 23, 2002 7:50 AM
I asked my LBS guy who specializes in Colnago. He didn't know...he said it was actually heavier, but it was monocoque instead of lugged, so maybe more aero??? He thought it was just a marketing ploy by Colnago, something for the cyclist that has everything, kind of like their Ferrari edition.

PS- I won't be buying one either.

Mark
Colnago OCLV--only uglier and 4x the price nmgtx
May 23, 2002 7:50 AM
Colnago OCLV--only uglier and 4x the price nmRudy D Project
May 23, 2002 7:54 AM
UGLIER? How do you get uglier than the boring colors that TREK uses? They paint is boring? There is no excitment in the aesthetics of a TREK. The white paint they used on the OCLVs Postal edition is now yellowing on my frame. I wish I could afford a Colnago. I would give up my everyone wants to be like Lance frame. I wish I hadn't of bought my OCLV.
wan't referring to the paint. nmgtx
May 23, 2002 8:00 AM
Ho many of these are bought by .PhatMatt
May 23, 2002 1:15 PM
People that are buying a ferrari and just want it for a show piece. There is a guy I use to Mtn Bike with, who firmly belives that if it is not the most expensive rig ont the planet it is worth less. Me I have what I can afford and it is unique to my area. And I love my Viner.
Gotta have something to outdo the neighbors OTTROTTJS
May 23, 2002 7:55 AM
Mines bigger than yours.
Can I special order it in Ferrari RedPhatMatt
May 23, 2002 7:59 AM
For another $2000. But I must have teh Ferrari logo on it.

Matt
Here you go.Me Dot Org
May 23, 2002 8:13 AM
Actually, I think Doug's bike is the successor to the limited edition CF1.

They should just call this model the "Ernesto Colnago Retirement Fund" and be done with it.
Like Riding with Ginseng Up.MSA
May 23, 2002 9:07 AM
My Colnago's bigger than yours...
Have you heard about the new drink that is guaranteedAllisonHayes
May 23, 2002 10:50 AM
to make you a poser while at the same time gets rid of rednecks? It's called "Ginseng Up Yours"
LOL! Great!MSA
May 23, 2002 12:21 PM
the only advantagemr_spin
May 23, 2002 8:10 AM
With a much lighter wallet and no money to buy food, you'll climb hills even faster!
Think of it as an exotice Italian sports carRudy D Project
May 23, 2002 8:20 AM
You will probably never own one, but it is always nice to come up on one and oo and awe over it.
Probably heavier and maybe a bit more aeroColnagoFE
May 23, 2002 8:24 AM
I wouldn't think this would be worth the $ unless you are a collector or have tons of $ to burn. They don't really look any cooler or seem to offer any advantage to me than a Kestrel or similar monocoque-type CF frame.
Hey, but it's "one of the most unique"djg
May 23, 2002 8:40 AM
frames available. Whatever that means.

Interestingly, I haven't seen ANY claimed advantages on Colnago's site, unless you count the claim that it's beautiful and distinctive as a claimed advantage. And so far as I can tell the Colnago pro teams are still outfitted with C40s and CT1s (you know, the folks who are still riding...). I haven't seen anything that looks at all like this under any of the Giro riders sponsored by Colnago.

There now. I feel so much better about also not buying one. Even the guilty little bike-acquisition-monkey trapped deep (or not so deep) inside me is just not interested.
some old fart will buy it nmishmael
May 23, 2002 8:46 AM
Hey, even old farts aren't that dumb!MSA
May 23, 2002 9:05 AM
How do you think we got to be old farts?
re: The C40 is a cheap, second class frameBeaver
May 23, 2002 8:48 AM
From what I read...forgot where unfortunately...that the Carbisimo is the exact same frame as the Ferrari edition. Seems that Ernesto didn't want to see the mold go to waste.
the deal with this frame (at least the red one above) ...cyclinseth
May 23, 2002 8:57 AM
is that they are made in the ferrari factory. They are assembled in Italy (probably at the colnago factory) and shipped as a complete bicycle.

Big friggin whoop! They're still ugly as sin in my opinion and preposterously too expensive to ever take out on the road.
So, where to draw the line, this is funny!!!No_sprint
May 23, 2002 9:22 AM
So, for $3800, the C40 is an bargain, whereas, $4800 is completely outrageous? Now, this is funny.

Colnago aint stupid, the market is there, if not, they wouldn't build them. Secondly, their target market is undoubtedly largely composed of those who have C40s, leave out a few who purely could not afford the C40 as it is, but lied, cheated, stealed and borrowed to get one.

C40 buyers are one of many bicycling market niches, they don't go for Calfees or Parlees for less, they are definitely the *I want the best name* buyers and will likely be *I want the most expensive stuff on the block* buyers. They by and large will object distinctly to those owners who decide to simply put down an extra $1000 for the newest best thing. Hey, if you can afford $3800, you are undoubtedly in the same buying group as those who can afford $4800.

I'm sure there are those out there that think $2000 for a frameset is for totally insane idiots only.

I definitely want one.
I agree with you, somewhat...MSA
May 23, 2002 9:53 AM
there are certainly a group of cyclists out there that buy for status instead of need, but most cyclists, I believe, are more savvy than that and buy according to how they will use the bike. In the world of cycling a Calfee probably holds as much status as a C40, especially a custom Calfee or a Dragonfly. But unless you are racing or doing time trials, what's the point of having either? And the Carbonissimo makes absolutely no sense at all, since you are paying more to have a heavier bike.
Me...I'd rather have a Richard Sachs or a Riv.
what's the point of having any bike over...lets say...$2000?ColnagoFE
May 23, 2002 10:43 AM
I mean you can get a really light AL bike with decent components for around that price. Pretty much any gains in actual performance above that level are minor. Sorta like why pay for a Ferrari when a Corvette (or insert your fave american sports car here) will handle about as good and go just as fast?
Ferrari's marketingDave Hickey
May 23, 2002 11:01 AM
Enzo Ferrari always said "if we can sell 500 cars, we will make 499". Part of the Ferrari mystique is it's exclusivity. Colnago operates the same way.
No comparisonMSA
May 23, 2002 11:34 AM
Colnago imports 10000 frames/year into this country alone. Exclusivity is not what they are all about. Cool paint jobs and high prices are what they are about.
There have also been several posts about racers not using expensive bikes until someone else is paying for them. I totally agree. Winning races is "not about the bike". But many of us bust our a$$ all week just to get to ride our beautiful road bike on the weekend, and having a high end bike is part of that great experience. Those of you who think there is no difference between a univega and a Master X-light are just wrong...there is a big difference.
I agree... but it is about exclusivity.....Dave Hickey
May 23, 2002 11:50 AM
How many of those 10,000 are C-40's? How many C-40's are sold compared to Trek OCLV's? I'm not disagreeing with you about high end bikes. I take great pride in my high end bikes. One of the reasons I ride LOOK frames is because they are rarely seen at group/charity rides. I like riding something different.
if i could afford it i'd probably have a ferrari (nm)ColnagoFE
May 23, 2002 12:08 PM
This is fun :)MSA
May 23, 2002 12:11 PM
Dave-
All I'm saying is Colnago is not holding down production to keep the cost of their bikes up. In terms of exclusivity, I agree, riding a rare or unusual bike is part of the fun. My only contention in this thread/topic has been that even for myself, an older rider with a pretty good budget, who loves gadgets and rare bikes, the Carbonissimo does not make sense. I would love a Calfee, C-40, King, Custom steel, etc., but the new offering from Colnago just does not make sense to me.

Ciao, Mark
PS- I've always wondered, how does that Look Ride...
This is fun :)Dave Hickey
May 23, 2002 12:21 PM
LOOK rides great, but if the truth be known, I've been looking at the DeRosa King carbon or a Calfee. I'll always keep my LOOK. I'm just looking for something different.
Damn, there my two!Len J
May 23, 2002 12:24 PM
I've been "scouting" both the Calfee & the King, I wish I knew somwone with a King or a Calfee in a 57 looking for a good home :-).

I must say that you have great taste, Dave.

Len
Hey, this sounds familiar!Tig
May 23, 2002 2:11 PM
Of all the CF bikes in the world to choose from, the Calfee and the De Rosa King are at the top of my list. Most likely I'd end up with the Calfee since it is easier to purchase and can be custom built. Oh, but what a lust bike the De Rosa is! Who needs Ginseng Up if you have one of those?!!! Scha-WING!
You need to get out more (without your bike). LOL nmLen J
May 23, 2002 2:57 PM
I agree with you, somewhat... dittoNo_sprint
May 23, 2002 10:46 AM
I agree with ya on the Sachs. My experiences follow, there are no rules herein', just oberservations, etc..

I don't see many (actually can't remember the last time I saw one in an am race) racers in any of the cats racin' C40s.

Rare is a Calfee and Serotta. The overwhelming rides I see are Treks, Dales, Giant, GT, Fuji, etc. However, when I ride with other clubs or our team's club contingent, there are the C40s on the non-racers almost exclusively. I can't remember seein' anyone younger than 35 on one either. Good for them to have them, and it's completely fine with me that's for sure!!!

I simply disagree with you that this is a *buy out of need* group. This is undoubtedly a high luxury group.

The higher up the race ladder you go, the more saavy person you'll find, sure, he/she will also typically be more utilitarian. They live by the motto it's the motor not the rig. All their bikes are beat up from the vast amount of ridin' and racin'. They're out there on the team rigs or on the 4 year old really beat up Trek Alu because they sold their new team rig in need of money to support the race habit. Those 1s and 2s that I know break out their beloved old Mercx steel or Coppi or Colnago Master X Light for their fun rides.

You find the C40s at the club rides with those higher up a ladder yes, the race ladder no, the income ladder yes.

I race a $900 Italian frame with DA almost exclusively. I break out the high end American or others with Campy Ergo for the less apt to get destroyed rides. You'll find many other racers breakin' out what they consider to be their *beater* for most racin'.

According to your comments, the Carbonissimo makes no sense since it is more money and heavier. Is the C40 the lightest rig around? I'm not sure but don't think so. Isn't an OCLV lighter? I thought so but definitely could be wrong. Hmmmm.... much less money and lighter.

I don't buy out of necessity and don't think a C40 or a Calfee or Serotta has anything necessary over a Dale or Trek or Land Shark.

Now, give me one of those Carbonissimos AND a Sachs!!
I agree with you, somewhat... dittoMSA
May 23, 2002 12:55 PM
yeah, I guess when I referred to racers I was referring to Pros, and we all know who funds their habit. Most local racers I know will not race an expensive frame, its just too risky. But if you could race a C-40 without having to pay for it and knowing someone else would replace it if you wrecked it...would you? ...better yet for this thread, if money was not an issue, which bike would you race?
C-40 vs CalfeeColnagoFE
May 23, 2002 10:40 AM
I have been debating what my ideal bike might be and I keep coming back to either a C-40 or one of Calfee's high end offerings. Since I weigh 195lbs and ride a 62cm frame I'm skeptical whether the C-40 would be stiff enough. I currently ride a Master XL and love the way it handles, but I have in the back of my mind that it'd be cool to have something a pound or two lighter that is just as sweet of a ride. Maybe not possible. Anyone tried both a Calfee and a C-40? Impressions?
C-40 vs CalfeeNo_sprint
May 23, 2002 10:47 AM
Craig can custom make your Calfee as stiff as you want. That's a quote from the man himself.
Yeah I think I'd lean towards CalfeeColnagoFE
May 23, 2002 2:09 PM
If only he could match the cool paintjobs that the C-40 has though!
Yeah I think I'd lean towards CalfeeJohnG
May 24, 2002 6:04 AM
I have the email addie for a guy who owns both. Let me know if you want to chat with him. He said their pretty much equivalent in stiffness and feel.... with the calfee being just a tad "softer" feeling.

IMHO, different frames has virtually zero impact on how fast/hard you can go on a bike. BFD many times over. I also think the "feel" differences are fairly minimal......

I've got carbon, Ti, and Al frames and they all ride pretty similar and I'm no faster on one vs the others. Again.... BFD! Even though I've got some expensive frames I'm a BIG fan of cheap Al frames like my TCR ONCE. For $600 for a frame/fork/HS it rivals all of the high end stuff I've ridden for 1/3 to 1/4 the price.

JohnG
C-40 vs Calfeebic
May 23, 2002 7:07 PM
On one hand you debate your ideal bike. How stiff it would be and how it would handle. And lighter. Then you say you what one that has a great paint job.

For centuries we got along without hair driers. Till someone convinced us we needed one to dry our hair. It's all about marketing. Make us feel fat, ugly, slow, great looking, fast and slim, guilty about everything, different from the rest, one of the qroup, great in bed or a slug and we will buy anything!
parlee 920 grams, c40 1200 grams. nmNo_sprint
May 23, 2002 12:24 PM
People buy them for other than necessity, that's for sure. There is no *this is a bad idea because it's more for less* in this equation.

Parlee Z1 920 grams/2.02 pounds
Colnago C40 1200 grams/2.64 pounds

People are buyin' C40s, people will buy Carbonissimos.

I want one!
Take away the seatpost and it's my Y-FOIL !!yfoiler
May 23, 2002 5:38 PM
Well sort of...
It cracks me up how they can snow us into spending all that money to buy a bike made out of cloth and glue!

Marty
Henry David Thoreaucrosscut
May 23, 2002 8:09 PM
Whenever I read a thread that is strictly about
materialism, which this is about, I often consider
Thoreau's notion that, "We do not ride on the railroad,
the railroad rides upon us."

I also wonder about what goes through a Colagno bike
owner's head when a guy on a beat up 'dale goes blowing
by him in a RR or a club ride.

Nah, I don't want one. For any reason.
re: Lighten up and have funRoubaix
May 24, 2002 5:01 AM
To my eye, the Carbonissimo is the most sublimely beautiful bike I've ever seen. People, in general, probably buy bikes with their heart. Everybody should quit wining about how much everybody else spends on a bike, how, fast they are, and if they are "worthy" of the bike, and just enjoy the sport. Percentage-wise, spending $80 on a saddle is twice as "stupid" as choosing the $4800 Carbonissimo over the $2800 C40. To all the accusers in thepost I'm buying a Carbonissimo this weekend because:

1. I am an old fart
2. I am slow
3. I'm buying a Colnago because I love Colnagos
4. I know its heavier than a C40, but I'm smart enough to know that I should really lose 10 lbs, not buy a bike that weighs 500g less.
5. I'm not a poseur because I don't pretend to be anything other than a guy who loves bikes, and bought an expensive one.
6. I'll be last on the group ride, but I'm positive I'll be having as much fun, and maybe more, than the guy who finishes first.

Everybody lighten up and have fun.
My hero........... Good post........(nm)Dave Hickey
May 24, 2002 5:32 AM
thought policeDougSloan
May 24, 2002 5:46 AM
Just Kidding!

If you get the bike, let us know what it's like. I'm curious.

Doug