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favorite high end Ti(15 posts)

favorite high end Ticollinsc
May 21, 2002 8:25 PM
Extralight, Legend, Axiom, etc, etc, there are a lot of options in the high end Ti arena. Without flaming each other, can you tell me your favorite Ti bike and why?


(I hope this doesnt get bloody)
re: favorite high end TiJohn Ryder
May 21, 2002 9:17 PM
1998 Litespeed Ultimate
Why? I'll show you.
re: favorite high end Timackgoo
May 21, 2002 9:48 PM
I don't know why you ask, but if it's because your in the market I would pass on as a current rider of a Ti bike I'm not overly impressed. Yeah it's nice but the ride isn't anything to write home about, no negatives either. I have my sights now set on carbon, a King to be exact to me that's a beautiful bike. I'll have to wait though and pick up a used one in a year or two.
I have a feeling though that afetr my quest for the perfect frame material is over I'll find my self back on steel. But heh at least I picked up a Ti and carbon bike in the process.
re: Kingcollinsc
May 21, 2002 10:34 PM
Can I assume you mean the De Rosa King? has some good prices i think. I'd be interested in knowing more about this one as well. What have you heard?

I'm not shopping exclusively Ti, not really shopping actually more like browsing, and carbon is an interest too. I just thought I'd keep the question simple for now.

thanks for your input
Bill HollandDMoore
May 21, 2002 11:09 PM
Bill is a frame builder in the San Diego area. He built beautiful lugged steel frames for years (I have one from 1988) but now works almost exclusively in Ti. Many Ti framebuilders come from an almost industrial approach - Litespeed certainly, but I think that's true of many others as well. That doesn't offend me, as I've owned a LItespeed Ultimate since 1994. Nice bike, but just not in the league I'm discussing here.

Bill, like Ben Serotta and Tom Kellogg, was already a master builder before Ti entered the picture. Although Serottas and Kelloggs are terrific bikes, I don't think anyone lavishes as much care and attention on their frames as Holland does. I'm not flaming, but Serottas are built in what amounts to a small factory. Kellogg designs his own bikes but Litespeed/Merlin builds them, and then he finishes them off. (And beautifully, I might add.) Bill Holland personally builds every bike with his name on it - I think there's one other guy in his shop. They're pretty much a cult item in Southern California. And as a plus, he shares space with Joe Bell so one of the very best painters in the country is the "in-house" painter for his frames. The combination of a Holland frame and JB paint job can be stunning.

I'm a nut for lugged steel frames, and have a Richard Sachs and Brian Baylis in addition to my Holland. I think Holland is the only Ti frame builder with the same approach as those steel masters. If I were in the market right now for a Ti frame, I'd go straight to Bill Holland.

My $.02.
Are Holland bikes expensive? nmBruno
May 22, 2002 8:18 AM
re: favorite high end Tiboneman
May 21, 2002 11:54 PM
I have a 1999 Vortex with 15,000+ miles ridden. I own a number of lugged steel frames, Gios Torino, Pinarello Gavia, 3Rensho, Davidson Challenger, Marinoni custom, Corrado custom, Chas Roberts custom and a Merckx EX Ti. I have to say it's my favorite bike.

High end? Well that's open to debate and it cost me $1,800 in the beginning of 1999. For me, bike frame's are about fit and balance. When I ride them, if they're right, you just forget about the bike and enjoy the ride.
May 22, 2002 4:34 AM
Can you tell any difference in bottom bracket stiffness between the Vortex and the Merckx EX Ti? I owned an EX and liked it although it was receintly sold because it didn't fit me all that well.


May 22, 2002 5:01 AM
Hey, Master Nessism, I checked out the Dean site ( and their frames look pretty good for the price! I'm not sure, but I think you can get a one-off, custom frame for $1200! They say each frame is "made to order." That means custom in my book. It sounds like they put each frame's geometry in their CAD computer, custom cut the tubes, and weld (per the website.)

However, I did put in an inquiry about that. That's so groovy, I might just buy 2 frames! Dean has to be a serious contender for a ti frame since I know their quality is top-notch.
Second thatGator
May 22, 2002 7:09 AM
I've ridden a ti Dean Colonel MTB for years. Wonderful frame, beautifully made, and a great company to deal with. And yes, all their ti road frames are full custom, even at their moderate price. Very hard to beat.
May 22, 2002 1:07 PM
No, I don't find them to be that different in stiffness but I'm no Mario bashing the pedals either. I find that both are more than stiff enough with excellent ride quality. I like bits of the Merckx geometry, the more laid back seat tube and the lower BB while the Litespeed appears to cater more towards Stateside racing with the higher BB and slightly steeper seat angle. All that being said, there's a Ti frame builder here in the UK, Omega, which makes custom Ti frames for a reasonable price so I may end up going custom. The other through is to go to the Merckx factory on my next trip through Brussels and having a custom steel or Al/carbon frame built. I can't possibly justify another bike, built or just a frame, but I've seen Omega's workmanship and it's quite good. As for the Merckx factory, enough said.
thanks (nm)Nessism
May 22, 2002 3:17 PM
Yves Saint Laurent or perhaps Hermes :-) NMSpirito
May 22, 2002 12:00 AM
valentino.. ("aren't you italian?") nmcolker
May 22, 2002 4:06 AM
re: favorite high end Tiohmk1
May 22, 2002 10:34 AM
seven of course