|What do you make of the Garzelli situation?||yeah right|
May 21, 2002 10:46 AM
|Based off the current situation (B sample positive, other stages 2 and 3 negative) and some of the suspicious circumstances of the day of the test (strange phone calls etc., which may just be rumors), what do you think about the likelyhood Garzelli is being scamed?
Personally, I'm not usually one for the, "golly gee, wonder how that got in there, I didn't take it" argument, nor the "spiked drink" theory, but I have to add that Garzelli's tone is a little different than your typical doper, but I've still got to support taking him out of the race, just a shame if he's actually clean. Just interested to see what people think...
|If this be 'doping'||scottfree|
May 21, 2002 10:56 AM
|it's an odd form of 'dope' and a strange way to do it.
I wonder how many of us on this board would pass a 'dope' test administered by the Euro cycling authorities? Take a look sometime at their list of banned substances.
|I wouldn't pass||t-bill|
May 21, 2002 11:09 AM
|I take Zyrtec for my hay fever, and I'm pretty sure it has a banned substance in it. It is strange though, because it makes me feel worthless in cardio intensive activities. Granted everyone reacts differently, but I don't see how it could be considered performance enhancing.
I feel sorry for Tyler and anyone else has has bad allergies. I am miserable without good drugs... I don't know how they do it.
|I'm rarely sympathetic (ask my wife)||McAndrus|
May 21, 2002 11:09 AM
|I'm rarely sympathetic to guys who get busted but this one does seem odd. Why take a masking diuretic when what I've read says this diuretic lost its effectiveness against testing a decade ago?
The diuretic itself is of no benefit and from what I've read masks steroids which are easily detectable in the tests used today. On the other hand, it's hard to swallow the conspiracy theory Mapei's management is throwing around.
I was particularly miffed at some press reporter who just had to comment that he'd seen the Mapei boys stop five times to relieve themselves during a stage. Geez, and I'll bet they threw syringes in bags into a dumpster while they were at it ...... sigh.
|I'm rarely sympathetic (ask my wife)||t-bill|
May 21, 2002 11:12 AM
|...And if they stopped 5 times, how did they stay with the peloton. He probably saw 5 different guys stop once, but chose to phrase it as "they stopped 5 times"! Horse Hockey!!!|
|That's why they call it dope nm||DaveL|
May 21, 2002 12:29 PM
|I think its all gone to far now.||Randy_Luttbicher|
May 21, 2002 11:22 AM
|I dont think that doping is really that much of a help especially in a sport like biking. I played a HS foot ball game once really drunk from vodka and burbon and true I felt great for a while....but then I caught a cleet in the throt....I pucked my guts out!!! I felt worse for the rest of the whole game. I think it would be somewhat the same while biking too, even it their better athletes than I am.
Ride hard and stay cool!!!
|I'm not a doping expert||grandemamou|
May 21, 2002 11:25 AM
|but most professionals seem to feel that these are very suspicious circumstances. The agent used and the single positive result, Hmmmmmmmmmm?
I'm not a big conspiracy theories but when you think about the number of people that come into contact with the riders food and drink it seems plausible.
I would be very worried if I was a serious contender. I hope they get this right otherwise there will be hell to pay.
|Contact with food and drink||TJeanloz|
May 21, 2002 11:39 AM
|In Grand Tours in particular, riders (and teams) are VERY careful about who comes into contact with their food and drink. Most teams (and certainly uber-team Mapei) have their own chef in charge of the entire process to make sure no contaminates work themselves in. This is the legacy of the bad-old-days of cycling where events like deliberate food poisoning were all too common. You will notice that riders will only take up drinks from fans that are sealed- often canned Coca-Cola or something else tamperproof. The risk of becoming sick from ingesting something unexpected is well known and carefully avoided.|
|Contact with food and drink||grandemamou|
May 21, 2002 1:26 PM
|Sorry, but I don't buy the arguement that these teams have this super airtight security and it can't be done. These guys and their belongings come into contact with hundreds of people everyday. The starts,finishes, and transfers at these events are total chaos. I'm sure riders and teams take precautions but if someone "really" wanted to do it I'm sure they could find a way.
I'm not saying that it happened. I only meant that it is plausible and that it could have happened.
May 21, 2002 11:37 AM
|I don't know. Until we get all the facts straight, it's a tough nut to crack. I mean he had to be tested before the prologue or after and that came back clean and his other 2 tests came back clean. So we have 1 positive test and the others are clean. Either something fishy is going on or someone is just plain stupid.|
May 21, 2002 11:41 AM
|Tests aren't conducted on everybody every day. Most riders will not be tested. The only person who can count on being tested is the leader, which Garzelli was for his first test (non-negative), and also the second and third tests done. But we do have one non-negative and two negatives- I'm not a doctor, so I can't say what that means.|
|b-sample test was positive--garzelli is in deep sh*t (nm)||ColnagoFE|
May 21, 2002 11:46 AM
May 21, 2002 11:48 AM
|Not good for the Giro||ms|
May 21, 2002 11:58 AM
|Whatever the true facts are, the Garzelli situation is not good for the Giro. Either Garzelli was doping or someone set him up. Neither situation reflects well on the race. I like Garzelli and hope that he can clear his name. Insofar as the Giro is concerned, I also hope that it can get a grip on the doping situation. The race, like the Vuelta, is a nice contrast to the Lance-hype of the Tour de France. I would hate to see sponsors (and OLN) drop the Giro and deprive overseas audiences of the race.|
|Good for Tyler Hamilton||mr_spin|
May 21, 2002 2:04 PM
|I badly wanted Garzelli to win, so I am very pissed about the situation. Garzelli seems like a pretty cool guy, doing leadouts for teammates last year, giving Bettini the win at LBL this year. Based on what I've seen so far in the Giro, he resembles Lance Armstrong in the way he now gets total and unquestioned dedication from his team, because they know he can deliver the goods. But unless they come up with something before sign in tomorrow, he's out.
The good news is that Tyler Hamilton now has a much better chance at the podium. Hamilton is riding well despite leaving the bike behind a few times. Garzelli supposedly said that he was only worried by Hamilton, not Casagrande or Simoni, but that might be because Garzelli and Hamilton never raced each other as team leaders.
Go Tyler. It took an American to rescue the Tour de France after the 1998 scandals, maybe it will take an American to rescue the Giro!
|I hope that you are right-nm||ms|
May 21, 2002 4:55 PM
|i love it!||DASS|
May 21, 2002 1:48 PM
|The Giro is the best specatator sport in the world! It's like a soap opera. So much drama, beautiful scenery, spectacular crashes, great competition, drug scandals, I'm on the edge of my seat!!!|
|re: What do you make of the Garzelli situation?||scotja|
May 21, 2002 2:18 PM
|I personally think Garzelli either is telling the truth or he's really stupid, and Mapie don't hire stupid people! Oops I am sorry I forgot Mapie once employed one Frank Vandenbroucke. You know on second thought he is guilty! Common we heard these words before from Vandenbroucke, Frigo, Zulle, Casagrande, and Virenque only to find out they were users!
The other side of the coin.
The only reason I find it hard to believe he's guilty is he had been racing and got results in Liege-Bastogne-Liege and Giro Del Trentino, which generally leads to testing for drugs. Why didn't he test positive earlier? Additionally if you were going to use steroids, you would use them in your build up phase and your initial racing phase, not when you're peaking!
What I want to know is, was his prologue drug test clean? If yes, I just find it hard to believe someone would take a substance that they definitely test positive for during a stage knowing they may be tested. If he knew that he would be positive do you think he would have tried winning the stage and taking over the lead from Cipollini? He could have easily finished in the top 10 and not lost any time to Casagrande and likely avoided being tested.
I now two things, one we will never know the truth, and two I may be leading the Performance Bikes Fantasy League now (leading since the end of stage 1), I will not be leading on June 2nd. Now I hope Simoni beats Casagrande!
Funny I was in the top 10 in last years Performance Fantasy League when Frigo got caught!
May 21, 2002 8:27 PM
|I am very outspoken about what I think should happen to people who knowingly dope for ergogenic purposes. I've seen some of the BS that goes with drugs and athletics, and this situation makes me think it is very strange indeed. Most people I would say to ban for life, but something tells me Garzelli got taken for a ride. I can't imagine why Garzelli would take this product. He got busted for having 20 nanograms of Probenicid in his system. Probenicid hasn't been availible in many European countries for years. It is meant as a treatment for gout, or gonnorhea, and not specifically as a diuretic (although it does that too). It stops the kidneys from secreting certain substances such as urea, and has been used to stop the kidneys from secreting steroids in the past. The problems with probenicid is that it is very easily detectable, and not even a trace is allowed in your system. It also is very ineffective in helping to mask steroid use today with the superior sensitivity of today's tests for anabolics. The amount that was in Garzelli's system would have been too small to even help back in the day when steroid tests weren't as good. There isn't a reason that I can think of to take this product. It has no ergogenic effect, is easy to detect, and doesn't do a good job at covering anything else up either. Why take it? If Maipei is doping I would like to think that they are far smarter than this. Only a very stupid physio or sogneir would allow an athlete to have this drug in their system. Or someone who wanted it to get found.|| |