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I'm not a crook...(18 posts)

I'm not a crook...tronracer
May 17, 2002 10:30 AM
So many attacks on me, so many attacks. Only I was at the scene of the accident and could assess the situation when it happened. This post was blown way out of proportion a kin to what I was afraid might have happened in real life. I didn't even read everything people have said here about my situation because there were so many, but someone actually said that they should take my bike away?!?!? Another, thought I was spineless, moron, etc... I'm not going to strike back at anyone because that wouldn't solve anything, but give a fellow cyclist the benefit of the doubt will ya?

I make a living by riding the streets of Philly everyday delivering stuff and I know the law. (I even have morals, contrary to what others might think) I did NOT break ANY laws. AND I beleive I didn't break ANY moral codes either. LAW: Philadelphia law states that a cyclist may ride either on the left or ride side of a vehicle and even in between. Furthermore, I have no legal obligation to stay at the scene if there was no damage. MORAL: If after an accident, the other invlolved party seems to be okay AND says that they are okay, why should I stick around? So they can change their mind later and try to sue me? In my case the other party was standing, coherent and said that they were not hurt, and seemed to not be hurt, as they were able to walk to the sidewalk. She didn't ask me a damn thing (if I was okay), so why do I have to push the envelope to help her?

In America, we are innocent until proven guilty although a lot of you seem to have condemned me. So I challenge you to PROVE I broke the law. Just the facts please.. Post a link to a written law in the state of Pennsylvania or city of Philadelphia. I am sure the references are readily available with this internet thing.

BTW a cyclist has NEVER killed a pedestrian in the history of one of the oldest cities in the United States of America, Philadelphia.
Pennsylvania vehicle code:Me Dot Org
May 17, 2002 10:45 AM
(c) Brakes.--Every pedalcycle shall be equipped with a braking system which will stop the pedalcycle in 15 feet from an initial speed of 15 miles per hour on a dry, level and clean pavement.

I believe you said your were riding your fixie which did not have brakes. You can say that your feet are brakes, but the law says "the pedalcycle" not "the rider".

http://members.aol.com/StatutesP1/75.Cp.35A.html
Dude, enough already.mixinbeatz
May 17, 2002 10:48 AM
You don't have to defend yourself in front of a bunch of yahoos on this message board. No ones opinion here really should matter should it? You were at the scene, you know what happened. Drop it. The last thing we need is this to turn into another stupid newsgroup in which we discuss moral conduct on your bicycle and whether helmets prevent injury or not.
Wait a second... Helmets prevent injury? nmthatsmybush
May 17, 2002 3:10 PM
Dammit man...EJC
May 17, 2002 10:57 AM
...this sounds supiciously like a ploy to get free legal help and avice via a challenge to the intelligence and guile of the collective community here-in (of which you will get all the free advice you need, and worth every damn penny of it.)

Seriously, the chap before me said it best...let it go, and enough already.

Giro spoiler ***You are acting like Pantani right now, and we all know what happened to Pantani today***

EJC
How do you know?onespeed
May 17, 2002 11:26 AM
"BTW a cyclist has NEVER killed a pedestrian in the history of one of the oldest cities in the United States of America, Philadelphia."

If she goes home and passes out because you gave her a concussion, they would never know how she sustained her injuries. She may have died and a newspaper just never picked the story up.

You will never be sure you did/didnt kill her...
My apology to you, tronracerAllisonHayes
May 17, 2002 11:46 AM
I used the term spineless. Yes, it was in reference to your post, but not to you directly--I was trying to raise the discussion from a personal level to a more general discussion. That is why I posted separately. One thing about this board is that it provides a chance for all of us to learn.

You demonstrated a willingness to learn by asking the question, "What should I have done?" in your own post.

IMHO, your first responses came across a self-serving and callous. Your later responses showed that you cared. Your post has benefited everyone because it generated some good discussion.

I am not attacking you; please accept my apology if you thought that I was.

Allison
Good advice, this is the last time I post on this subjecttronracer
May 17, 2002 12:37 PM
Granted this is from 1997, but...

http://www.messengers.org/messville/happy_pr.html

Allison, I humbly accept the apology, and allow me to say that I usually enjoy most of your posts.

Me Dot Org, technically you are correct, but I was referring to a cyclist leaving the scene type of law. Someone said it was a felony, they didn't mention any locations where that law is on the books.

Since this happened I have added a front brake to my bike (not because of, I just finally got around to doing it). I can, however, come to a complete stop by locking the back wheel up, "in 15 feet from an initial speed of 15 miles per hour on a dry, level and clean pavement." I'd say I was doing about 12mph and only had a few feet in which to stop anyway. Stopping in this fashion is identical to coaster brakes.

Sorry if it seems as though I am beating this issue to death. No more posts on this subject from me.
Here's a pic of the bike, brakeless.
Whoops, here's the pictronracer
May 17, 2002 12:42 PM
that Pista is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet....dustin73
May 17, 2002 5:27 PM
the Vicious would be as much so had it only 1 gear and a Vicious fork, still not bad, though.
OH MY GOD!!! tronracer killed Kenny!SnowBlind
May 17, 2002 11:52 AM
You Bastard!
Your attitude is the problem, not your bike.czardonic
May 17, 2002 1:22 PM
You: "I have since installed a front brake even though my courier friends call me a wuss."

You: "Since this happened I have added a front brake to my bike (not because of, I just finally got around to doing it)."

Which is it? And why can't you admit that you did something wrong, even if unintentionally? You approached a blind intersection at a speed that prevented you from stopping in time to avoid a collision. That is a mistake, plain and simple.

We all make mistakes, it is what we do afterward that counts. Hopefully, we evaluate the circumstances that led up to the mistake and recognize how to prevent them in the future. We can also jump through rhetorical hoops trying to absolve ourselves of any responsibility. It seems to me that your defensiveness is a manifestation of the latter. It also seems like your addition of brakes to your bike is a manifestation of the former, though you seem reluctant to admit it.

Whatever the case, don't expect people to pat you on the back for knocking someone over, regardless of whose "fault" it was.
Whatever, you got the facts all mixed uptronracer
May 17, 2002 5:46 PM
I changed my mind. I'm going to defend myself. Not right now though, going out for awhile to hit more pedestrians.
CZARDONIC - Try to over analize you dotronracer
May 17, 2002 5:53 PM
Yes, going back on my word to not post again, but you piss me off. Which is it?!?! First of all, those two statements are identical. Yes since that incident happened I put a brake on. Had it not happened, I still would have put a brake on. My courier freinds call me a wuss out of jest, jokingly. Its a messenger thing that you might not understand. Its sort of a stupid macho thing to ride a track bike w/ no brakes. I bought the bike w/out brakes and rode it until I found the ones I was looking for on Ebay. You seem to be reading into what I said and drawing your own conclusions. I DID NOTHING WRONG. I can surely admit when I am wrong when I am. My defensiveness is a manifestation of idiots like you who misread or misinterpret what I say and then proceed to lecture me on right and wrong. I'm a grown adult, I know the difference. I have asked this question before, but no one has the balls to answer it because you all would have done the same thing. So I ask again CZARDONIC. WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE?

Oh, and where did you get that it was an intersection? I never said that. Let me lay it out AGAIN for you smartass. There are two lanes. Cars on both sides. The right side being a bus and bike ONLY lane, even though cars disregard all the signs and travel in the bike lane anyway. I was between traffic in the very middle (legal by the way)between the cars Approaching a light about 40 feet away.

I hit a Jwalker, big deal I hope she dies. That's what you paint me as so that's what I'll be. If you still don't understand, I'll draw you a picture later.

PS I'm really a nice guy.

More to come...
It's simple.czardonic
May 20, 2002 10:18 AM
What would I have done?

When approaching a blind intersection I slow down as much as is necessary to be able to stop should someone or something stumble into my path suddenly. For my own safety and the safety of others, I do not ride my bike past my ability to control it, regardless of what the law says. That is just plain common sense that should guide even a low life who's only instinct is to cover his own a$$.

Get it?

And by intersection I mean any point where your path can be intersected.

Get that?
Read these links about another bike messenger in Bostonkenyee
May 17, 2002 6:51 PM
I didn't notice this back then because I wasn't into bikes, but found this recently digging for places to bike in Boston.

http://www.messengers.org/messville/BOST_ACC.HTM
http://www.messengers.org/messville/GLADSTON.HTM

I personally agree w/ the messenger's comments in the 4th paragraph from the bottom in the 2nd link. The pedestrians have gotten a *LOT* worse in Boston over the past few years. Even when confronted w/ death if they hop in front of cars, they still do it, let alone hopping in front of bikes.

I'm pretty disgusted at the drivers that didn't stop as witnesses, but that's par for the drivers here (I don't drive that way).
what difference does it make???Fender
May 17, 2002 7:05 PM
what difference does it make... the lady was okay at the scene of the accident.. the guy on the bike learned his lesson.
from now on, he will be on the look out when there are buses.. and so will the lady.
now to conclude my two cents.. bike messengers have the best handling skills anywhere, 'cause they basically live on their bikes for 8+ hours a day. if half the pelonton at the sunday crit had half of the skills these guys have, if guarantee you that there would be far less accidents occuring.
just get over it everybody!!! where you directly affected by the whole incident?? NO!!! then whats the problem??
I'm just posting cause it p*sses me off to see so many people debating about an issue they have no say in.
The fact isAlexx
May 18, 2002 5:54 AM
You injured a person (probably not your fault), but then you fled the scene, like a coward. Oh, yes, that's the same as hit-and-run. If you ever expect to be respected as a human being, how can you justify your actions? You can't, so instead, you come here to minimize your guilt. You need a good lawyer, and a good therapist.