|Anyone ever hit a pedestrian?||tronracer|
May 16, 2002 11:41 AM
|Riding down Walnut st in Philly. There were two lanes and I was riding between traffic. I was passing a bus and out pops a muslim woman in full black dress with the vail and everything Jwalking in front of the bus(traffic was stopped). I tried to stop, lean forward and skid (riding my fixie, no brakes). I didn't have enough time, she was oblivious and I head butted her right on the temple with the front of my noggin(I knew it was her temple, I felt the soft tissue give a bit and it was gross). She went down and people looked at me as if I did something wrong or maybe I just felt that way. Had no choice but to get out of there as fast as I could. I think she was okay, she was a lot bigger than me. Maybe next time, she'll look both ways b4 crossing the street.|
|Do rollerbladers count? (nm)||Softrider|
May 16, 2002 11:45 AM
|Yes, scooters and animals too||tronracer|
May 16, 2002 11:54 AM
|One dachshound, one Irish Setter neither on a leash - nm||dzrider|
May 16, 2002 12:12 PM
|I have tagged a few dogs||Softrider|
May 16, 2002 12:15 PM
|on the local MUT. Those retractable 80ft. leashes should be banned. Owner is walking on one side of the trail and little fluffy is running across the trail on this long leash. Someone comes buzzing down the middle, and the fur ball goes for a ride.|
|Those retractable leashes are such a problem||AllisonHayes|
May 16, 2002 12:56 PM
|I think people who use retractable leashes must their brains at home. I can't believe how dumb they are; they are oblivious to others who use the MUT. These people should be at the top of the stupid people tricks chart. |
When you have an owner on one side of the MUT and an 80 lb bowser on the other and you come riding through, someone or something is going to get hurt. I have seen this sooo many times. I prefer the road now and stay away from the MUTs and mut owners.
Oh yeah, then there are the joggers with poochie on the inside of the MUT wandering into the traffic lane. Ride by little poochie and he yelps because you startled him and the owner yells at you. (don't get me started here.)
|Saw a ped get hit at MTB race once||mikebikr|
May 16, 2002 11:54 AM
|There was a crosswalk constructed of snowfence at a 24 hour race at Seven Springs last year. It was an obstacle that took some work to get around and cross the course. The crosswalk was at the bottom of a very fast grassy downhill section. This chick obliviously yaking on her cell phone wanders right onto the course as this rather tall biker dude comes sceaming down on her. He has no where to go at about 35 mph and locks up his breaks a split second before making contact. He catapults up and over this chick taking her out as he's launched over his bars. There was incredible carnage. I never saw the results... it was my turn to start another lap.|
|You mean by accident?||MSA|
May 16, 2002 12:00 PM
|I have never hit anyone but sometimes it seems like I should. I use a bike path to commute, no cars but lots of joggers/walkers. Most of these pedestrians are great, but some just will not use the path with the understanding that cyclists are using it as well. Like the groups that walk two or three abreast and will not move aside for a biker OR worse those who walk with head phones on, and no matter how loud you warn them when approaching from behind, they can't hear you. Another favorite is the person, who after hearing "On your left" jumps to their left. Mercifully, these comprise only a few of the people I encounter.|
|You didn't stop?||mixinbeatz|
May 16, 2002 12:34 PM
|By not stopping, I think that you could qualify for the idiot of the day award. Understand you could go to jail for that even if she was not seriously hurt. I ran down a businessman who was jay walking a couple years ago. I was ok but he ripped his suit all up. He was swearing at me and told me he was going to kick my ass, while I just sat back and laughed. I was still laughing when the cop wrote him up a ticket for jay walking.|
|Sorry to lecture, but you need one.||czardonic|
May 16, 2002 12:41 PM
|I toyed with the idea of riding my fixie w/o brakes. I figured I would ride a little slower, be a little more aware. A little risky? Sure. But a risk I thought I was willing to take. That is, until I started reading stories about riders hitting and killing pedestrians because they had no brakes to stop. Then I realized that it wasn't just my saftey I was putting at risk.
Sure, the pedestrian was at fault for not looking where she was going. But you are even more at fault for riding your bike past your ability to control it in a crowded area. The fact that you fled the scene shows that on at least some level you knew that you were in trouble.
I hope for everyone else's sake (if not your own) you learned a valuable lesson about responsible behavior
|Why didn't you stop? nm||AllisonHayes|
May 16, 2002 12:42 PM
|Well here's how it went down in a little more depth nm||tronracer|
May 16, 2002 12:54 PM
|Like I said I was passing a bus that was on my right. The bus was blocking my view of her and I was only about five feet away from the front of the bus when she popped out. To lock up my back wheel, I had to lean forward and really put my legs into it to stop the bike. So leaning forward eats up about 1-2 feet, that leaves me only three feet to come to a complete stop from around 12 mph. I yelled "LOOK OUT", but she wasn't really paying attention. Basically, I couldn't see her until it was too late because of the bus being so tall and I skidded into her. I have since installed a front brake even though my courier friends call me a wuss.|
|Your courier friends would call you a wuss?||cyclinseth|
May 16, 2002 1:16 PM
|That's a hell of a lot worse than running down muslim women. Dude, you've GOT to cave in to peer pressure and ditch that front brake NOW! Better yet, why not switch out the fixed gear for a free-wheel single speed. Now who're the wussies?|
|re: Anyone ever hit a pedestrian?||Crankist|
May 16, 2002 12:45 PM
|And run? No. You did have a choice, contrary to your statement to the opposite. Apparently the "gross" feeling
of her temple collapsing wasn't enough of a concern for you to stop. No need for you to apply for "Biking Ambassador of the Year".
|I gotta look out for no 1, and not step in no 2||tronracer|
May 16, 2002 12:59 PM
|Well, she did say that she was okay. And I just left it at that and split, rather than hanging around to possibly turn a mountain out of a molehill.|
|In your first post you stated, "Had no choice but to get out of||AllisonHayes|
May 16, 2002 1:05 PM
|there." Now you are saying something different. Not to question you, but something doesn't sound right here. IMHO, you had an obligation to render assistance. |
Also, I am concerned by your comment, "gotta look out for no 1, and not step in no 2." What was your motivation? To run or to help?
|when a bike = an SUV = an idiot||SFgeek|
May 16, 2002 1:25 PM
|the guy is an idiot and should not be on a bike. you might think about driving an SUV instead.
btw, "felt the soft tissue give a bit and it was gross" - cool. you should have kicked her while she was down, too.
|In your first post you stated, "Had no choice but to get out of||FlySpinner|
May 16, 2002 1:28 PM
|It's simple he was also at fault...
In his first line he states that he was riding between traffic.
Don't know about Philly, but that will get you busted where I live.
And I agree, he's to self-center and arrogant to know any different. Cycling need a lot few of his kind.
|to your defense, tronracer||TypeOne|
May 17, 2002 7:48 PM
|I'll back you on this one (see my similar post, above). What could you do to avoid it or to make anything better afterward? You assessed that she was ok, you know she was in the wrong--get the hell outta there before someone takes a potshot at you! (Have you ever had a girl bump into you at a party, spilling her drink on herself, then she gets upset? Next thing you know, some frat boy appears and wants to kick your ass. Same deal here.)I think people here are more offended by your callous description of the event ("soft tissue") than your actions. I'm glad you are more careful now and have a front brake. But remember, she's lucky: you could have been a car.|
|no, that's really the problem, isn't it? He couldn't have||bill|
May 17, 2002 8:06 PM
|been a car. All the cars were stopped. That's why she stepped out into the street.
Don't want to beat this to further death, but, you know, there's enough blame to go around. The lesson for all of us is that we can be right, we can be wrong, but we really ought to remember that we are a minority, that people expect and plan for cars but not bikes, and that we should act accordingly.
|re: Anyone ever hit a pedestrian?||jkoshi|
May 16, 2002 1:33 PM
|I've hit a yuppie concentrating on his non-fat soy latte and not the street he was crossing. I felt the soft tissue (his entire body) give way as I lamely tried to stop (I actually didn't hit my brakes). I've also hit a helmetless (nothing to protect) weekend warrior that resulted in some bad spinal compression, a brand new lid and a new wheelset.|
|wow, you're almost a superhero!||mr_spin|
May 16, 2002 1:41 PM
|The Judgement and Stereotype Kid, keeping our streets clean and safe.|
|wow, you're almost a smartass!||jkoshi|
May 16, 2002 1:46 PM
|oblivious pedestrians, drivers, and other cyclists are a danger to everyone.|
|Let me understand this. You were riding, you say, "between||bill|
May 16, 2002 1:58 PM
|traffic." What means this? Are you telling me that there were two lanes of stopped traffic in your direction, you came careening between them, and you think that this was HER fault? And, even assuming that you were in the right, which it doesn't sound to me as if you were, what makes you think that this wasn't a hit and run? Which is a felony in a lot of places.
Get a grip, my friend. I'm not even going to address the no-brake thing.
|wait. wait. wait. "tronracer" = RADICAL RON?!!! we've missed||bill|
May 16, 2002 2:08 PM
It has to be!!!!! You're so . . . fabulously clueless. Fabulously, deliberately, too-clueless-to-be-real-I-saw-it-first-nyah-nyah clueless.
|You "think" she was ok?||kenyee|
May 16, 2002 2:10 PM
|Egads. You should have made sure she was ok. You probably caused more damage to her than she caused to you since you're the one w/ the most momentum.
So if I hit you w/ a car while you were blowing through a stop sign or a red light, I should just take off because I think you're ok and it taught you a lesson for not blowing through a red light?
I can't even tell if this story is even real, it's so weird...
|Attempt to address all the questions||Ernesto Montagnaro|
May 16, 2002 5:10 PM
|1. Not Radical Ron
2. In Philly, the law says a cyclist can ride on the right side OR left side of a car (my lawyer told me after a car hit me)
3. Green light, I was going WITH the flow of traffic, but it was around five o'clock so rush hour had cars almost at a standstill.
4. She was not crossing the street at a crosswalk, but in the middle of the block (between 16th and 17th on Walnut for those of you who know Philly)
5. I did manage to slow the bike enough to reduce the force of the impact considerably
6. What else could I have done to help her? I helped her up and she said she was okay, so I split. Nothing good would have come out of the situation if I had stayed.
7. When I said I got out of there as fast as I could, it made it seem as though I hit and ran right away, but I helped her up and asked her if she was okay. She said yeah, I'm okay, so I split.
8. Condemn me if you will, but if I had to do it over again I would not have done anything differently.
9. Oh, and what stereotyping and judement did I make? Because I said she was muslim? I was merely stating a fact.
|PS Ernesto Montagnaro = Tronracer||Ernesto Montagnaro|
May 16, 2002 5:11 PM
|I'll back you up.||hayaku|
May 16, 2002 6:27 PM
|It's a scary thing hitting someone. If everything seems OK then laughing about it afterwards is natural. If they say they're OK there is no reason to stick around other than to let self-righteous, do gooder, heros of the down trodden dump you in it because they don't see any brakes on your bike.
She was in the wrong place doing the wrong thing, you were in the right place... going too fast by the sound of it.
Bad stuff like that happens.
|Two things in your original post bugged me||kenyee|
May 16, 2002 7:35 PM
|You said "you split" w/o mentioning you helped her up and asked if she was ok. Strong implication of hit and run.
You said "maybe that'll teach her not to jaywalk". That just sounded cold.
I probably wouldn't have posted (and perhaps others) if you had cleared those up (though I still don't get that jaywalking comment). And posting using multiple pseudonyms doesn't help believability though you did say you had posted as tronracer.
|haha when I was little...||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
May 16, 2002 5:00 PM
|Out of many crashes one was broad siding a poor woman. It makes me laugh though.
Nick (now happier remembering that instead of gettin pissed he has no Giro coverage)
|Old Japanese people have a death wish!||hayaku|
May 16, 2002 6:11 PM
|I was practicing my down hill cornering one day, passed a moterbike on the strait before the corner... a blind corner... There was an old woman on the road... WHAM!
She said she was OK but with the blood coming out of her mouth and the way she limped away, I dunno. I felt so bad. I had a very close call on that same corner a few weeks before.
Then the other day I was just cruising along. An old woman saw me and must have decided that this was her chance! She jumped out in front but with my Ultegra brakes and a loud scream, I missed her.
|Enough with the sarcasm||Ernesto Montagnaro|
May 16, 2002 6:14 PM
|Okay, so tell me what should I have done differently?|
|What about getting some brakes?||elviento|
May 16, 2002 8:24 PM
|If she was crossing the street at the wrong time and wrong spot, it should be her fault but when you are going right next to a big bus, it's wise to be slow because yours and someone else's vision is severely impaired at that time. For your own safety as well. Maybe I am too naive, but I just don't understand people who ride bikes with no brakes in traffic. Bad idea if you ask me.|
|Enough with the sarcasm||filtersweep|
May 17, 2002 4:06 AM
|I don't think you should have been riding between lanes, and the legality of that is questionable. It is not the same thing as passing on the left, and regardless of the legal aspect, it is the sort of thing that annoys other motorists- the bike that splits lanes... but if you are a courier, I doubt you care about that (and I get it- why dispatch a bike if it is slower than a vehicle).
"Jaywalking" around here is only a crime if it "impedes traffic"- and if "both lanes" of traffic are already stopped, the pedestrian really isn't impeding anything. The question is, does riding on the line constitute a lane, or traffic.
Regarding traditional garb... I doubt those hoods do anything for peripheral vision. I question whether some of those women should be driving in them, and there have been a few bizarre court cases around here regarding whether they constitute as "disguise" (when worn in banks, etc..).
|What you should have done: IMHO||bill|
May 17, 2002 5:37 AM
|Your subsequent explanations go some way towards justifying that you weren't as bad as your initial post makes you sound. You apparently weren't going that fast, and the woman stepped out midblock. She was just a few feet ahead of you, you could not possibly have seen her sooner, and you tried to stop.
You should not have been traveling between lanes. Not only does it make everyone nervous, car drivers, pedestrians, and, hopefully, you, but I'll bet it's not legal. In most states, bicycles on the road have most of the same obligations as cars. They have to stay to the right, and I can't believe that they can straddle lanes. Moving in a clear right lane past a stopped vehicle is one thing; moving between lanes is another.
While I can't say that the woman was doing everything by the book, either, she had no earthly reason to suspect that a cyclist was moving between the lanes. Does that give her the right to move out into traffic that happens to be stopped at that moment but that may move any second? No, but it's hard to say that she was more wrong than you. That kind of a tie isn't really a tie; pedestrians win.
I also find it a little odd that you mention what she was wearing. Does that matter to the story? Bias against Muslims is the last acceptable prejudice in this country; granted, too much of the visible Muslim world isn't doing a whole lot to bolster that image in the West, but, you know, people are people. Some good, some bad, most indifferent, and it's the same for Muslims.
May 17, 2002 8:20 AM
|In reality it's almost impossible NOT to ride between lanes in busy city traffic. Can you occupy a whole lane to yourself at 15-20 mph when everyone else is going 35 mph? Maybe it's just me, but I find "riding like a car" almost impossible on busy city roads.|
|Yeah, but . . .||bill|
May 17, 2002 9:12 AM
|Our hero was not trying to negotiate 15-20 mph while traffic was moving at 35. Traffic was stopped, and he was threading his way through two stopped lanes of traffic. Big difference (although, I must say, if traffic is moving at 35, you have to stay to the right, period; that situation is not going to allow safe movement on the lane divider any more than stopped traffic would).
I also will tell you that I have done it (ridden down the middle of two stopped lanes). But it made me real nervous, and, if something had happened, I would have a hard time saying that I had no fault.
|I'm not biased against Muslims....||tronracer|
May 17, 2002 11:15 PM
|I don't know why I mentioned it. She was wearing a borka. It just seemed strange that I hit a Muslim in full dress. What if I said I hit a nun? Just stating the facts.|
|re: Anyone ever hit a pedestrian?||tacoShoppe|
May 17, 2002 1:19 AM
|Had a couple close calls with last second green lights, but managed to stop right before hitting them... Had to go into a full tail slide once to stop. Did tack a hiker during a mtb race on a non-closed course. yelled at him to move coming down a fast singletrack, but he never did. Ended up just barely clipping him on the side and went off the trail.|
|Leaving the scene is a FELONY!!!!||Alexx|
May 17, 2002 3:35 AM
|You had better get your things in order-when they finally catch you, your going to get sent to prison for at least a year. I hope they confiscate your bike, too. It's morons like you that give us all a bad name.|
|Oh good lord man...||EJC|
May 17, 2002 4:33 AM
|...Now perhaps the original post you are responding to was posted by a Yank, and that the alleged conflict took place in the land of Yanks, but your above post regarding felony charges regarding cyclist/pedestrian collisions is fairly ethnocentric.
How is that? You forget that this board is INTERNATIONAL...that means MORE THAN THE GODDAMN UNITED STATES AND THAT OTHER COUNTRIES ACTUALLY HAVE RULES AND LAWS THAT ARE NOT JUST LIKE 'MURICANS!!! Go figure.
As for your diatribe about going to prison, having the bike confiscated etc...it is a fairly typical American repsonse to seek out an ujust sentence for fairly mild infractions. AND I can see the responses to this..."How can you say this was a minor infraction...some little old ladie/baby/child/puppy etc...could be hurt or killed" So typical Yank to seek hyperbole and histrionics for the sake of making an extra space in the already over crowded prisons.
Sorry everyyone, for my rant, but I do get weary of hearing all this vengeful and mean sprited sentiment that comes out of this country.
|OK, WHOSE post is vengeful and mean-spirited?(nm)||Crankist|
May 17, 2002 5:17 AM
|Well, I don't know Carnkist, you tell us. (nm.)||EJC|
May 17, 2002 5:24 AM
|I believe that in most places, it IS a felony to leave a scene||bill|
May 17, 2002 5:51 AM
|where you have caused bodily injury. What's the law where you are? Until you've answered that, I think that you have criticized without much substance, suffering from the same bias from the other direction as you accuse our hero. The bicycle confiscation is a bit much, I'll grant you, and I can't say I disagree with everything you say. But, you know, you ought to mellow out a bit yourself. Would give you more credibility.|
|I think you are right bill!||EJC|
May 17, 2002 10:25 AM
|I posted that BEFORE I had my first cup this morning!
I grew up in Canada, but spent a few years in UK as well (London.) My post was meant (albeit in a much too aggresive fashion) merely to point out the ethnocentric attitudes that are prevalent here on this board, and perhaps even worldwide, when there are 'Murican interests involved. Okay, that said, I put in this caveat...I live and work in the USA now. HOWEVER, that does not mean that this is the best country, or that I must think it is better because I work and live here. Rather, I had a wonderful professional opportunity that happened to be in the USA.
Think of it this way, if a Yank decides to take a job in, say, Uganda, would you then assume that Uganda is a better or more just country simply because She/He dicided to take advantage of an opportuntiy there?
Also, there seems to be a "default" assuption that all internet users on an English Speaking Website are 'Murican. This DOES lend itself to the idea that we should blindly follow along in the 'biig brother's' example and shadow, which is nonsense. I think there are some wonderful aspects to the states, but if push comes to shove, I BELIEVE that there are other countries that have a more just/fair/better system.
Thanks for pointing out my hot-headedness bill!
May 17, 2002 6:06 AM
|was my mother. About twenty minutes after you hit her she went into a coma and we don't know if she will recover. I've been searching the internet and a can't belive I found you. You'll here from my lawyer today.
I also sued McDonalds because the coffee they sold me was hot.
Just kidding on both counts. But the trend in this country to pass all reponsible off to others is troubling. Coffee is supposted to be hot. If you hit a pedestrian you need to stay until the Police arrive to file the accident report.
"Maybe next time, she'll look both ways..." Grow up.
my 2 cents.
|That gulldarn McDonalds coffee case has created more misunder||bill|
May 17, 2002 6:36 AM
The facts are a bit different from the headlines. I'm not going to get this perfectly right, but I think it's close enough.
The coffee was not just "hot." The coffee scalded the skin off of the thighs of the plaintiff, then in her late seventies. She had to undergo a series of painful skin grafts; I think that her medical bills were somewhere around $70-80,000. The plaintiffs introduced internal memo's from McDonalds citing knowledge of the dangers of the temperatures. I think that the temperatures in the store even were in excess of what McDonalds prescribed.
The plaintiff tried to settle. McDonalds told them to pound sand. McDonalds got what they deserved.
And, the amount actually paid was quite a bit less than the verdict. Plaintiff was very happy to take a lot less and avoid an appeal.
|Still feel bad about it||Me Dot Org|
May 17, 2002 8:22 AM
|It happened a couple of months ago.
Riding through a little town north of San Francisco (San Anselmo), I came to an intersection with painted crosswalks on both sides. I went through the first one, and something caught my eye - a dog looking at me - and I turned my head. When I looked forward, I was right on top of a guy in the second crosswalk. BAM! Hit him head-to-helmet and knocked him down.
He was an older guy (I'm guessing about 70) but big. I helped him up and over to the side of the road, apologizing profusely. He was a little dazed at first, but okay. His wife with was with him. They were meeting his daughter for lunch. I stayed with him while his wife got his daughter. He said he was okay. After his wife and daughter came, and he assured me he was okay, I left.
I still feel bad about it. Believe me, I think about it every time I ride through San Anselmo. The moral of the lesson: DON'T LET YOURSELF GET DISTRACTED. Especially not in an urban situation, where things can change in an instant.
|Threading through stopped traffic||justina|
May 17, 2002 10:36 AM
|We all do it, but it's illegal and dangerous. You were wrong and should have stopped and made sure the woman you hit was OK. Your brazen disregard for others' well being is reprehensible, and it's the cycling community as a hole that pays for your wrecklessness. When running the gauntlet between stopped cars you need to be extra vigilant of pedestrians who aren't expecting fast moving objects to be hurtling between traffic. When coming to blind corners due to buses or other large vehicles stop! It's that simple. Technically those peds are jay walking and in violation of the law themselves, but as cyclists we are in the minority and should keep that in mind and take special care to look out for them because it is unlikely they will be looking for us. Also, put a break on your fixie please, you don't have to use it when making planned stops, but in an emergency it's a life saver, literally.|
|people should read the entire thread before they post...||tronracer|
May 18, 2002 1:17 AM
|their opinions. BTW, it is not illegal to thread through traffic (on a bicycle)as I have stated at least three or four times.|| |