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odanata and buyers remorse(28 posts)

odanata and buyers remorselegs
May 11, 2002 10:14 PM
is a seven odonata worth it?
(its gonna be just over 6k with tax)
if you've got money to burn.. yes. if not,colker
May 12, 2002 4:13 AM
it's ridiculous. you can have a spectacular new bike, custom, built w/ chorus no less for around $2000. you can even buy something older, used from ebay: a classic italian bike with older components and ride in style for less than $700. but you earned it and can spend it however you want it.
It can be.Leisure
May 12, 2002 4:19 AM
It's an expensive bike, no question. It is beautifully welded, rides straight and true as an arrow, and has wonderful ride quality. The question is, how much do you want for the money? My LBS deals Sevens and I think they're immaculate. But I'm not going to just drop the cash for one on a whim, though eventually I will almost certainly get one.
Not everyone is as picky as I am, but my feeling is if you're going to pay for a custom frame like a Seven, you should know exactly everything you want in advance. Stuff like head tube angle, what ride quality you want, etc. etc. etc. I'll want to have an in-depth understanding of all the interplay between different factors and what measurements will yield the characteristics I want. (I've got a good handle on these things mtb-wise, but with road bikes I still consider myself a bit of a newbie.) Even though Seven does a lot of things which make it easier for buyers to get what they want without knowing all the technicals (the fit will be perfect, guaranteed), I'm of the mind that you should learn it all anyway. I'm not going to be one of those buyers that just dumps a lot of cash into something and then rationalizes to him- or herself that it must therefore be perfect. I intend to know it before I purchase it. That's what will make it worth it to me.
But maybe that's just me; it seems all of the people that purchase Sevens from my LBS are damn happy with them.
It can be.legs
May 12, 2002 8:57 AM
this isnt a whim.. been saving and test riding for about a year...
this is pain..
and yeah.. I have been riding about 15-20 hours a week since I was 20...
thats 16 years.. if I dont know what works I am an idiot..
(but 6k is so much when you actually start to spend it..)
re: odanata and buyers remorseMe Dot Org
May 12, 2002 8:07 AM
Is an Odonata $3,000 better than a $3,000 bike? Certainly not, not in objective or measurable terms. You don't say what kind of bike you are riding now. If it something in the range of a Merlin, Pinarello, or Colnago, I'm not sure if the improvement you feel will be worth the price difference.

Does it make your heart go faster in some way beyond all objective reason? Is that worth it to you? If the answer is yes, then by all means go for it.

The stratosphere of bicycle building is like many areas that combine art and technology: the last 5% of improvement cost more than the previous 20%.

No doubt the Odonata is a beautiful and wonderful bike. No doubt also that it is very expensive.

The only way you are going to own a Seven built for your specifications is to fork over $6k. Buyer's remorse is part of the possible equation at that level of purchase.
My opinion...Nessism
May 12, 2002 8:35 AM that no bike is worth that much. From a performance standpoint, a full custom bike can be put together for less than 1/2 that much money that will be just as nice to ride.

The question is, what are you willing to pay for the Seven name?

mine toolegs
May 12, 2002 8:54 AM
you know-- it isnt a name thing for me..i have test ridden every decent frame i can think of...
(and my two favorite experiences were the merckx sc and the c-40.. the seven came in third)..
the reason i am choosing is becuase i think its a more durable frame than the other two.... and because i thik the fit will vastly improve my sense of the bike..

my current ride is a custom made steel bike.. and its beautiful but it has been ridden into the ground .. after years of training and racing and beig hit by two cars and now it has cancer (rust)...

so.. no it isnt the name.. its that 4k for an aluminum framed rig that rides great but probably wont last 6 years seems more ridiculous..

and i am light so titanium doesnt limit me..
I wish it were less
and i wish seven had integrated headsets..
but still..
it is about the ride...(for me)
but the cost versus boost in hedonic experience is a kind of ridiculous ratio.. 6k is a lot of money..
my last bike was three k ten years ago...
i hate this :)
mine toogtx
May 12, 2002 10:13 AM
what about something like a custom Dean ti? Or if you liked the Merckx, there's the LS-built Merckx. Built either with DA or Chorus and it should come in under $3k.
mine toolegs
May 12, 2002 1:26 PM
headed out to go test a dean right now.. thanks for the great advice...
mine toogtx
May 12, 2002 6:11 PM
cool. Let us know how you like it. I currently ride a steel Merckx and another custom SL frame built for me in the late 80s. If I was buying a ti bike, it would probably be the Dean or the LS Merckx (unless I won the lottery and went completely nuts and got something like the ti Crown Jewel).

One other thing--I'm not totally sold on the whole test ride concept--it takes a while to dial a bike in--you might like one bike more than an other simply cause it happened to be set up better for you. I'd really focus more on your current ride--decide what you like/dislike about it and go from there. I think you can have the Dean any way you want it for a very minor upcharge. Good luck!
Any bike is worth it if it will bring you enjoyment butLazywriter
May 12, 2002 8:57 AM
I have issue with paying that much for a bike that has a 200lb weight limit on it. From a durability standpoint, I would want something indestructible and the carbon on that bike would be a concern for me in event of a crash.
Go for the Axiom ti and save the difference if you want a Seven. But as I said in the past, I test rode the Axiom and found it to ride no different than my Litespeed Classic which is why I bought a Vortex.
Now, if exclusivity is your goal, the Odanata or that Serotta one with the carbon ti combo is what you would want.
I don't see the necessity for carbon on ti bike. I even have issue with whether custom is necessary for 99% of people. The Seven is a nice bike but if yo are gonna spend that kind of $ buy one that is all ti not carbon/ti mix.
Any bike is worth it if it will bring you enjoyment butlegs
May 12, 2002 9:04 AM
I found the ride to be different (not better or worse) than a vortex.. and I weigh about 148 soaking wet.. i am small anyway and i ride a lot .. even when i was off the bike for two years i never got abover 155..
so that isnt a concern..

its funny but the exclusivity shtick actually is a huge turn off..

I tried a ct-1 and didnt like it... it was nice, but not for me.. and serrottas are great but they dont grab me either...
With all due respect...Nessism
May 12, 2002 11:20 AM
...on one hand you ask the boards opinion regarding the value of a $6k bike and then you float comments such as "...and (brand x) are great but they don't grab me either..."

Clearly, you are making an emotional purchase decision based on what "grabs me (you)". While there is nothing wrong with this, no one here can help you decide what tugs at your heart strings.

If you want help deciding on the technical merits of different bikes/frames, this is a great place to get information. But you will not find help regarding what is important to you on an emotional level.

Sorry for the hard comments. Good luck in your search.

With all due respect...legs
May 12, 2002 12:20 PM
how do you know what i mean by grab..
I am just making comments in order to help figure this out..
and while i do appreciate the kindness and insight
of the people comenting..
I am not looking to argue..
but is it nice (having all the answers and knowing all the rules?)

and hell yes a bike purhase involves some emotions..
but to call this an emotional purchase is belittling and full of assumptions that reflect nothing of my process...
Legs, Nessism tends to be aLazywriter
May 12, 2002 2:17 PM
pain in the A$$.
A pain?unchained
May 12, 2002 3:25 PM
Since when is giving honest, fact based advice a pain?

I think that you may be unhappy due to the fact that you have another "bike for life" that in reality turned out to be less than you expected.

Perhaps others here may learn from your mistakes?
Nessism has tons of knowledge.colker
May 12, 2002 3:42 PM
he builds frames. he knows waht he is talking about and is just not trying to show "wit" or "inteligence"... on the internet!
May 12, 2002 6:22 PM
When someone starts talking about a $6000 bike they are not talking about NEED, they are talking about WANT. There is no rational reason to NEED a bike like that unless you are a professional. The WANT part is where emotion comes in. There is nothing wrong with this as long as you have the money.

How about posting some more information regarding what you are looking for in terms of stiffness, dimensions, surface durability, ect. Also, how about a listing of the components you are planning on installing.

Hard to say.djg
May 12, 2002 7:18 PM
The Sevens I've seen look real nice, but as Nessim says there are some damn fine bikes that can be had for anywhere from less to tons less cash. In steel, I'd think about Spectrum (really), Serotta, Landshark, IF, Steelman, Strong...from Italy: Pegoretti, De Rosa, Mondonico (made-to-measure, any of 'em), Pinarello or Colnago. Different design ideas all, and this list is hardly exhaustive. In Ti: Spectrum again, Merlin, Litespeed (snicker away), or Colnago. Maybe Dean.

I spent about 3,300 bucks to satisfy an irrational hankering for a CT1 (bought nearly everything in England: frameset, K's, Record 10, etc.) I love the freakin bike. But so what? You might not.

Here's the basic thing: if you are wondering about performance-per-dollar (however one figures it), you can absolutely get a first rate bike for A LOT less than 6k. If you want custom, it's still no problem. If you want pretty torch work, it's still no problem. You can get a bike on which you'll go just as fast as you would on the Odonata. On which you'll be just as comfortable as you would be on the Odonata. So you should save your money. UNLESS, of course, what you really, really want, and can afford, is an Odonata. You know, it's a ton of money for a bike. It's also the difference between a mid-level Honda Accord and a loaded Honda Accord. Or between two homes which are virtually indestinguishable. Beats me. I don't know anything about your finances, which are none of my business, or what else you want in life. It's your money.
Well said! (nm)Nessism
May 13, 2002 4:39 AM
re: odanata and buyers remorsetincanman99
May 12, 2002 9:25 AM
Thats a lot of cabbage no matter how you cut it. However its your money and you should do with it whatever makes you happy. If this makes you happy and you can afford it go for it!

My own personal opinion is its a crazy amount of money. From my observations and I am a novice to cycling - you could pick up a kick ass Pinarello for like 3K. The Seven's are nice but I would not say they are 2x as nice as a Pinarello or Colnago.

Just my 2 cents but again you have to do what makes you happy...
May 12, 2002 9:37 AM
I've been riding for 30 years, and only recently spent a chunk of change on a C-40 with C-10 record equipment.

For the price of the bike, I get pleasure and enjoyment while improving my cardiovascular fitness.

My wife points out that my car has depreciated twice that amount, without doing anything to improve my life style.

HDTV's cost 5-6000 dollars, and improve your viewing pleasure, but little else. In three years the technology is obsolete.

Computers depreciate 100 % of their value in four years and will not make you live longer.

We spend thousand for devices that become worthless over time, and do nothing to make us healthier.

If you have the money and know what you want, nothing brings a smile to your face than a great bike.
Well Said MGS! (nm)Cigar
May 12, 2002 9:52 AM
May 12, 2002 12:25 PM
thank you kindly ..
everytime i ride a c-4o i feel like i have been let in on some cosmic secret...
they are so responsive and smooth..
and that seat tube is somehow the right mix of stiff and compliant..

i'll bet you love it...
I have to believe that the one thing that would be worse thanbill
May 12, 2002 10:25 AM
spending $6K on a bike is spending $3K on a bike and still wanting the $6K bike. Then, you would have to spend $9K to get what you really wanted in the first place.
As a tool, you know that it's hard to justify or you wouldn't be asking the question. Other, cheaper tools will do the job as well, or maybe not as well but a damn sight better than half as well. As a ride that gets mixed up with how you feel about what you are spending 15-20 hrs of your life a week doing, though, get the f*ck what you want to get. It's the only way to justify spending ANY amount, really.
Never heard a whisper of complaint about a Seven from a Seven owner. Most people kind of lower their voices and tear up. Passion is as passion does. Or something like that.
bills right ...koala
May 12, 2002 3:21 PM
If you spend 15-20 hours a week on it then get it. It also sounds like your looking to keep it a long time and the fit will be right. DO IT.
re: odanata and buyers remorsepeter1
May 12, 2002 3:09 PM
Yes, it's worth it. The only remorse you'll have (provided you can buy the Seven and still feed and clothe your family)is if you don't buy it...everytime you see the bike you didn't buy, you'll wish you had.

Hopefully you'll ride it for 10 years...assuming you won't crash too badly, that'll break down to $600 a year. (plus tires, brake pads etc.)or $50 a month. That's the cost of a health club membership. What would you rather do, rip up the roads on the world's best bike...or lift weights in a stuffy gym with a bunch of smelly, overweight schlumpfs?

There, that wasn't so bad, was it? Enjoy.
If it's what you want, just get itDMoore
May 12, 2002 11:19 PM
I deliberated for a long time over the decision to get a Richard Sachs. Once I got it and rode it, my only regret was that I hadn't done it years earlier. If there's something you really want, and you can afford it, just get the darned thing. Life's too short to agonize over these questions.

With that said, if I was going to buy a custom Ti bike with cost no issue, I'd go straight to Bill Holland in San Diego. His work is awe inspiring, with absolutely impeccable build quality. He shares space with painter Joe Bell, and a Holland bike with JB paint is really a treat for the eyes. His bikes are widely used by master racers in the Southern California. He has access to quite a selection of Ti tubing, and can build the exact bike you want, from super stiff to feather light.

Holland is the only maker of Ti frames I'd be willing to compare to steel frame masters like Richard Sachs or Brian Baylis.