's Forum Archives - General

Archive Home >> General(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 )

Protein Supplements(14 posts)

Protein SupplementsJuniorRacerFL
May 6, 2002 12:44 PM
Hello i recently got a thing of Whey protein because i dont think im getting enough protein in my diet lately. When is the best time to be taking it. I will probably just put a scoop or two in a strawberry smoothie or something but would it be good to take it on recovery days or just after excercise or when? It says for best affects take at least once daily but i dont know if i should or not, what do u think?
Right after a workout is idealPODIUMBOUNDdotCA
May 6, 2002 1:59 PM
Optimally you should take it within 15 mins of a workout. Just drink lots of water along with it. Some people like Peleton will argue to the ends of the earth you don't need to supplement protein in your diet. Which to a degree if your not an athlete is true. But look at my example... for a year and a half I did not and I made it to Junior Worlds last year. But this year I started using it and my recovery times have decreased dramatically. I'm a sprinter so I need a lot of muscle but for endurance riders muscle means strength which is good and it also burns fat so you can climb like... well Lance!

Take it easy and have fun!
Nick Corcoran
Right after a workout is idealpeloton
May 6, 2002 6:36 PM
Go to your local University's Kinesiology department or do a google search for what the experts (nutritionists and physiologists) are saying about protein supplementation. It is a very expensive way to get your protein requirements, which are easy to reach in a normal diet. Typically, Americans consume too much protein anyway. There are studies out there that will point out that endurance athletes require 57% more protein than the typical diet provides at a ratio of 15% of calories from protein and 2000 calories. This is misleading in the way that athletes typically consume much more than 2000 calories. Most cyclists here are probably in the 3000 plus range. So, keeping your protein ratio at 15% will provide this extra amount with the extra calories consumed. 15% is a nominal amount really, and can be attained with food sources easily. Chicken, tuna, nuts, legumes, fish, and the list goes on and on. One can of tuna contains 33 grams of protein, and 132 calories from protein. A glass of milk contains 8 grams and 32 calories. Not much food there for a cyclist in training, and you already have 1/3 of your requirements for the day. The BS about athletes needing more isn't true. If you want to supplement, it won't hurt you unless you go way overboard. It sure isn't likely to help either.

FWIW- Nick- I'm an exercise physiologist, coach, and former high level athlete myself. So I'm not just relaying what works for the couch potatoe population.
May 6, 2002 6:54 PM
This is from peak performance online. Some food options here too.

The all-pervading folklore in strength sports is that you need to pack in the protein. Up to 4g of protein per kg of body weight per day (contrast this with the standard Recommended Daily Allowance of 0.8g/kg) has been recommended - most notably by Eastern bloc coaches and nutritionists. There is evidence that athletes involved in resistance training have a heightened protein requirement. But 4g/kg seems to be way over the top.

There are thought to be two circumstances related to strength training and competition which increase protein requirements. Firstly, during the initial 10-12 days of training, there is a small increase in protein breakdown. Less body protein is broken down if the amount of protein in the diet is increased at this time. After about 12 days of training, protein balance is restored, and the body is likely to start building extra protein into the muscles if strength training continues

The second circumstance is prolonged heavy resistance training. The specific protein demands depend on the amount of work done and the rate at which muscle mass is developing. Brotherhood estimates that young men on a well-designed muscle building programme might increase their lean body mass by as much as 0.5-1kg per week, requiring extra protein retention of up to 30g of muscle per day during the active phase of muscle building. He acknowledges that this is an extreme value - most of the time, rates of gain of lean body mass with a general strength training programme would be considerably less

Peter Lemon, a researcher based at Kent State University, Ohio, has been investigating athletes' protein needs for a number of years. He concludes that strength training athletes need to consume more protein than the RDA, recommending levels of 1.5-2.0g/kg. He emphasises that although increasing protein intakes above the RDA (in tandem with resistance exercise) may enhance muscle gain, this increase is not a continuing linear relationship - the effect appears to plateau out at relatively modest increases

This was borne out by a recent study which compared a group of experienced strength-trained athletes with a group of sedentary controls. Both groups were tested at three protein intake levels - low, moderate and high (0.86, 1.4 and 2.4 g/kg body weight respectively). The protein intake required to maintain body protein levels was 1.4g/kg for strength athletes and 0.69 for sedentary subjects. An increase in protein intake from low to moderate increased the rate of protein synthesis in strength athletes, but increasing to the high level did not have any further effect. ('Evaluation of protein requirements for strength trained athletes', Tarnopolsky et al, J App Physiol, Vol 73, pp1986-95)

However, other studies have come up with conflicting results - for example, seven experienced male weight lifters were found to maintain their body protein levels at an intake of merely 0.52g/kg body weight. Another study found no difference in strength gain from a diet containing three times the RDA for protein, compared to a diet containing the RDA, in a group of men involved in a resistance weight programme over 28 days

There isn't enough information currently to be able to draw out hard and fast rules on protein requirements. In a review published earlier this year, Janet Walberg-Rankin concludes, 'it is prudent for the resistance trainer to consume at least 1.2g protein per kg body weight per day, but not more than 2g/kg' ('A review of Nutritional Practices and Needs of Bodybuilders', Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, Vol 9 pp116-124)

A protein requirement which is higher than the RDA does not mean that exercisers need to consume protein supplements (see end of this article). Although the protein requirements may be higher in absolute terms, athletes in training need to be eating more food overall than their sedentary colleagues
I completely respect your opinion but...PODIUMBOUNDdotCA
May 6, 2002 7:17 PM
Like I said I completely respect your opinion but to a degree I know adding protein in the form of a protein shake right after a hard strength or even endurance workout helps me recoover. Yes it isn't a cheap way but it works and I believe in it whether its a placebo or not. Just like I shouldn't risk hitting my head theres a base line that is medical learning and people either are on that line or above or below it. I choose to be above it and recover faster than my accident than in theory I should. We'll see if the doctors will say I'm recovering faster.

Glad to hear you argue this topic again!

Take it easy,
Nick Corcoran
Here we go again.LeGrimper
May 6, 2002 11:18 PM
Its good that we don't all agree.

I rarely agree with all the opinions posted on here, mostly due to contrary findings by myself on (and off) the bike. However its good to hear what works and what doesn't for the different people here.

I think all this jousting is us all just getting ready to race and we are mostly testing our confidence and knowledge against other riders without having to race.

If a protein shake makes you feel faster and recover thats GOOD. If its a can of tuna and a glass of milk that good too. Price isnt much of an issue against confidence.

I do the full bit. Protein, Aminos and lots of carbs.

This is my best year to date!

Love to you all.

Le Grimp.
A study from the web supporting this.Quack
May 7, 2002 6:14 AM
December 2001 - Protein Taken With Carbs is Better than Protein Alone for Building Muscle!

This study, conducted at University of Texas Medical Branch, measured the amount of uptake of the amino acid L-phenylalanine into healthy leg muscle tissue in one of three protein shakes. The shakes were consumed one and two hours after intense leg training and provided about 6 grams of protein, 34 grams of carbs, or both per shake for a 150 lb. bodybuilder. The L-phenylalanine uptake in the protein and carb shake was measured as being three times higher than the carb shake and roughly twice as great as the amino shake.
re: Protein Supplementsfirstrax
May 6, 2002 4:15 PM
I cant speak for nutrition but I can speak for flavor. A sports nutritionist told me to take in protein no more than 20 minutes after the ride. He also said I need carbs too. The carbs speed delivery. Proteins should be taken on recovery day as well. On recovery days I have a myoplex shake in the morning and 2 scoops of Designer Whey before bed. Muscle only grows when at rest.
Heres the list of products he recommended.

Myoplex. 42 grams of protein and 24 grams of carbs (only 3 are sugar). I use the chocolate cream. This stuff tastes incredible. The serving is huge, they recommend 15 oz of water but I use 24 and its still plenty thick. sells a 50 pack for $50.00 making it cheap too.

Next Proteins Designer Whey. I was told this was the best type of protein. As far as straight protein shakes go, this one tastes the best. Although not as tasty as the Myoplex. I sometimes use half a packet of Myoplex and a scoop of designer whey. Best of both worlds.

Designer Whey Protein Bars. I used to be addicted to peanut better body but the added glycerlean and they suck now (in flavor only). I switched to Met-rx protein plus. Much better.
May 6, 2002 4:40 PM
I just use plain whey protein power with some milk and some fruit... carbs protein calcium and everything you need and not at a designer price.

Nick Corcoran
just make sure to use skim milk...up_hiller
May 7, 2002 7:57 AM
you don't want fat in your recovery drink. fat slows down the uptake of protein. that means fat in any form, of course, so for those who do not use a powder, don't just eat a bunch of peanuts. sure they contain protein (although it's not the best type out there - see below) but they also have lots of fat. at least it's mostly healthy (unsaturated) fat. peanuts are great, just not optimal for post-workout.

Protein Supplements overviewKerry
May 6, 2002 5:28 PM
Adventure Cyclist, July 2001, Protein Supplements comments by Nancy Clark: "Yes, you can choose protein shakes for additional calories, but they are expensive - milk or peanut butter can do the job just fine." "1 gm of protein for each pound of body weight is a very generous allowance for athletes building muscle mass. (More likely 0.6 to 0.75 gm per lb. will do the job just fine.)" "Designer proteins are indeed expensive. You can easily spend $2.30 for a packet of MetRx. Milk powder (the best and least expensive protein supplement around)." "Eating balanced meals and then drinking protein shakes for "high quality protein" is an outrageous concept - and expensive." "The protein from natural foods works just fine. Any animal protein is "high quality" and contains all the essential amino acids." "No engineered food can match the complex balance of nutrients designed by Nature."
Protein suggestions?Nessism
May 6, 2002 5:43 PM
I'm getting sick of Tuna (also some people claim that Mercury is a worry). How about some other cheap ideas? I used to eat a lot of beans but these can be somewhat...unpleasent if you know what I mean. Peanut butter is a favorite but has so much fat. What else?

Protein suggestions?dsc
May 8, 2002 4:15 PM
Cottage cheese (lowfat tastes best to me) is a staple in my diet. Another good source of protien is 3-4 scrambled egg whites, although I usually add in 1/2 - 1 yolk, for flavor.

Either of these, along with 1/2 c oatmeal, makes up my usual breakfast, and cottage cheese can be eaten anytime of day.
Protein Supplements overviewup_hiller
May 7, 2002 8:00 AM
<"Eating balanced meals and then drinking protein shakes for 'high quality protein' is an outrageous concept - and expensive." "The protein from natural foods works just fine. Any animal protein is 'high quality' and contains all the essential amino acids." >

note it says "animal protein." that means whey, or milk, or egg. not soy, or nuts, or beans. I agree, as long as it's some sort of animal source, it won't make that big a difference, but don't use something that came from a plant.