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Some people need to get the hell out of the way(41 posts)

Some people need to get the hell out of the wayeschelon
May 6, 2002 8:39 AM
Please...fellow brethren, do not hold too much malice towards me for riding my mtb...I still am a roadie through and through.

Anyway, after the lbs tuned up my mtb, I went riding at the hardest trail in the area this past weekend. I wanted to ride hard and fast to develop power that I am lacking on the roadie. I'm flyin through the woods and I come up to this dude pushing hard. I guess he noticed me and started to push harder...never giving me an opportunity to pass...I know, I know, maybe I should've told him I wanted to pass on his left. But this was some real technical trail here where passing is not an option unless someone pulls over the side. No big deal...I'll just recover for the next couple of minutes...I must have shadowed this pussy for 3 miles and then I finally had enough of this crap and told him I was passing on his left and he still would'nt let me pass and so I passed him by going off-trail...and then the next thing I know it this pussy was nowhere left to be seen...I guess he blew up and didn't want to keep going.

Some people need to realize if anyone even catches up to you and is about to overtake you, that means that person is way faster than you and you should get the hell out of the way. I am so sick of this shit where people don't want to deal with getting passed on their bike rides.
wowDougSloan
May 6, 2002 8:49 AM
Sorry, but your tone seems a bit rude and arrogant, but I think your legitimate sentiment comes through anyway.

In a perfect world, other riders would part and allow us to pass at will, just like on the highway in a busy commute (right).

While courtesy would dictate that he allow you to pass, I think you need to communicate your desire. Arguably, for all we know, he may have felt he was doing the right thing by speeding up.

I've been on some wicked single track climbs where stopping or pulling off trail was not an option - else I'd not get started again. I've never seen this go on for 3 miles, though.

I think communication is key. I don't think you have the right to get angry until you tell him what you want ("may I pass, please?") and he refuses.

Doug
agreeSteveO
May 6, 2002 9:35 AM
"Arguably, for all we know, he may have felt he was doing the right thing by speeding up."

exactly...not everyone is as fortunate to know the same 'rules' that 'everyone else' follows. The poor dude was probably working his butt of to stay out of his way.
re: Some people need to get the hell out of the waygtx
May 6, 2002 8:52 AM
try mtb racing some time--depending on the course, that's what the whole race can be like. Learning to pass in the singletrack is a very useful skill. After a while you will learn to basically ride right through/over people who don't get out of the way.
Passing during a race...biknben
May 6, 2002 9:41 AM
You always hear a story or two after a XC race about a pass gone bad. Very rarely do I have problems when passing. Then again, I'm usually the one being passed. :-)

My etiquette on the race course depends on the situation but when I come up slowly I give them a second to notice me. If I see no change I'll say "Looking to pass". I consider that to be nice and allows them to control the situation. At this point, many will move over and yield. I say thanks as I go by. Some don't know what they should do so after another second I look for a place to pass and let them know which way I'm going.

Passing in a non-race situation soens't need to be any different. Communication is the key. I can't imagine riding behind someone for 3 miles getting all pissed off that you can't get by. Let him know you're there. Give him the chance to yield. If he doesn't, blow his doors off. Shouldn't be that big a deal.
agreegtx
May 6, 2002 12:20 PM
yup, I do exactly the same thing--and I can't say I've ever had problems passing in non-race situations. Racing, I almost communicate that I want to pass, and I always get out of the way for others when I can. But hey, it's a race, and it's not always convenient or safe to move over. It's no fun trying to pass through the bushes, but sometimes that's what you gotta do. The main thing is gear selection and having the power to go when you need to/have a chance to go. My problem in XC races is that I often pass people going up and then they pass me going back down. So it pays to be as cool about it as possible. What goes around comes around and all that.
Yeah make it a positive challenge for yourself.Sintesi
May 6, 2002 10:10 AM
Pretend he's a competitor who doesn't want you to pass. Develop some sly skills. Who knows, you might even have fun by trying to approach your dilemma in this way.

I hit the trails last Saturday myself. YEEAHHHHH!!! HOOO!!!!

: )
Lack of discipline & experienceSlipstream
May 6, 2002 9:04 AM
In Europe, there is much more discipline & experience when it comes to these situations. In the States, people are wholly unaware of what is the right thing to do. They don't seem to have a clue that it would make sense to let you by.

There is no quick solution to the problem--this requires that we have an educated mtb community, which simply isn't going to happen overnight. In the mean time, you need to find a way of dealing with your frustration. I think that Doug's suggestion is about all that can be done in the short run. It simply isn't worth letting some dumb b@#$%rd ruin your whole day.
Just open you Mouth.Lowend
May 6, 2002 9:28 AM
Who is the biggest Pussy, the one that did not let you pass or you, who took 3 miles before asking to pass? Three miles can be a long time on a single track especially in a technical area. He probably had no idea that you wanted to pass.
Don't get personal a55holeeschelon
May 6, 2002 9:39 AM
This thread isn't about me attacking you. Maybe your screen name is an indication of your life, your bicycle skils, or your intellect.
"Trail Rage"biknben
May 6, 2002 9:57 AM
Newest trend in conjested singletrack. Forget that bell on my handle bars...I'm getting an air-horn.

C'mon esch...next time you find yourself in that situation just ask to go by. You'd get a completely different outcome.
"Trail Rage" ...that's funnyKristin
May 6, 2002 10:38 AM
But I think I'd rather pit my extremely weak handling skills against Mr. Eschelon on a trail than meet him in a dark alley. Dude, your post makes you sound truly scary.

What's with this "I gotta get mine, so get the Frig outta my way!!" attitude these days??!! People are converting to this mentality en mass. Its one of the few American problems that has made me consider jumping the pond.
Right on - it's an epidemicCRM
May 6, 2002 1:14 PM
A true analysis of the causes would require a much longer dissertation than anyone wants to read here. I think it's a combination of our ever-increasingly busy lifestyles, media-influenced expectations and a general decline in decency.

Among cyclists, the epidemic is nothing new. The ultra Type-A's who frequently are drawn to the sport tend to over-emphasize the importance of their "performances."

If you really are great, you don't have to try so hard to convince everybody of it.
Politely dusting rude alpha-riders gives me great pleasure.Quack
May 6, 2002 1:25 PM
Coming up on their wheel and trying to hold a conversation with them while they go anaerobic is quite fun. Very choppy sentences, and once you continue on, they disappear. Good for the ego, and very entertaining.
attitudeDougSloan
May 6, 2002 1:28 PM
I posted this in non-cycling, but probably applies here more:

Attitude
by Charles Swindoll

"The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness, or skill. It will make or break a company ... a church ... a home. The remarkable thing is we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude ... I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me, and 90% how I react to it. And so it is with you ... we are in charge of our Attitudes."
You used the P word first...Lowend
May 6, 2002 10:32 AM
You are right, this thread isn't about attacking me. It is about me defending the rider in your way. If you would just open your mouth sooner, he might have gotten out of your way. It is ok to call someone a P for not getting out of your way, but not OK to be called one yourself.
My screen name is an indication of what type of road bike a ride. Sometimes it my be my life style, so by you saying it does not effect me at all.
Have a nice day.
Dick.
Don't get personal a55holeSteveO
May 7, 2002 3:38 AM
"Maybe your screen name is an indication of your life, your bicycle skils, or your intellect."

ironic retort from someone who relies upon 'p', and 'a'.
Plenty of blame to be shared hereMel Erickson
May 6, 2002 9:40 AM
Sure, the polite thing would have been to let you pass, if he knew you wanted to. He may have thought he was pulling you along, or maybe you needed a breather, or was just content to have found someone to ride with. How would he know what your intentions were if you did't tell him? Yeah, letting you pass would have been nice but maybe he could feel your attitude and was just giving back what he was feeling. The trails are not there for your personal use. On the road this is not a problem because passing is relatively simple. However, trails, especially tight single track, are a different story. Patience and communication on your part, politeness and etiquette on his part and problem solved.
Introduce yourself to jaredhartman...separated at birth?amflyer
May 6, 2002 9:42 AM
Don't be so pissy...now you both had a bad ride. Be more Jimi Hendrix and less Dimebag Darrell.
damnJekyll
May 6, 2002 9:51 AM
3 miles on really technical stuff is almost a half an hour. You could not find a place to pass in all that distance and time?
If the guy in front of you is dying just to stay there he's probably exhausted and not all there because of the effort. Just be nice and ask to pass. Otherwise you'll just be pissed off because he did not read your mind. For all you know maybe he thought you wanted to tag along with him. If he can't read your mind screaming that you want to pass how can you read his?
Out of the way! His excellence ESCHELON is on the trail! [nm]tz
May 6, 2002 10:43 AM
I hate those jerks who keep trying to pass me.Sintesi
May 6, 2002 10:55 AM
I'm going PLENTY FAST, let me tell you, and I don't need no mondo-hammer with a death wish crawling up my @ss. He can just wait.
re: Some people need to get the hell out of the wayskyman51
May 6, 2002 11:18 AM
Yikes! Get a life.
Can I have your autograph?pmf1
May 6, 2002 11:28 AM
You are so cool.

What pro team do you ride for?

I would have sensed your greatness and pulled over right away and bowed down.
Next on Fox: When Roadies Hit the TrailGator
May 6, 2002 11:29 AM
Dude, you MUST chill. You have to remember that MTBing is largely experiential, not a fitness test -- people are often more into looking at the trees and chattng than maintaining a 140 heart rate at a 90 cadence. There's a really good chance that this guy was just out tooling around and either didn't know you were trying to pass or couldn't figure out how to get out of your way. And if you rode up his ass for a half-hour without saying a word, the guy might have been so stressed he didn't know what to do.

If you're gonna MTB, you'll HAVE to adapt a bit more of a MTB attitude or you'll never get anything out of it. Hammer where you can, but chill when you can't -- it's supposed to be fun, remember?
Amen Brother...miposy
May 6, 2002 1:35 PM
You said it best...
Hell is other people -Camus (eom)128
May 6, 2002 11:33 AM
j p sartre nmcolker
May 6, 2002 11:45 AM
nm
Thanks. I rot at the 50/50....... nm128
May 6, 2002 12:27 PM
well normally.....K-Man
May 6, 2002 11:40 AM
most riders when they want to pass ask right away and don't wait 3miles to finally ask. Maybe the guy thought you wanted a buddy to ride with?

No really, check your attitude at the door.
"Hardest Trail" maybe in Florida......HAHAHAK-Man
May 6, 2002 11:46 AM
No insults intended to any Floridians.

KMan
People like YOU are the reason that trails keep getting closeddsc
May 6, 2002 12:03 PM
Dude, you need to just chill the hell out.

Yes, I understand how you felt that day. I am a pretty good, no, make that REALLY good mtb'er, especially in the technical stuff. Many times I have been slowed down, even stopped in my tracks by less skilled riders on narrow singletrack trails. But you know what? They have every right to be out there having fun, too. Plus, what if that guy you blew around now goes and complains to the local land use manager? Another strike against us.

Actions like yours are the reason that more and more singletracks are being posted with *circle/slash/bicycle*
signs at their trailheads.

-Debi
Maybe you should get a bell, no? (nm)Aristotle
May 6, 2002 12:23 PM
Train cannot pass on same trackflying
May 6, 2002 12:30 PM
Your not a train & there is no single track in the world that you cannot pass on. You followed for 3 miles?
Maybe your not as fast as *you* think.
Or he wasn't as slow as *you* thought.
Be polite, asking instead of telling always works for me!!Quack
May 6, 2002 1:13 PM
Perhaps my experience does not parallel yours for I don't ride public trails and the only time that I ride a mountain bike is when I'm racing. But during races, I here quite a few guys literally yelling LEFT, RIGHT at riders in front of them, which always seems very rude to me. Keep in mind that this usually occurs within the first 15 minutes of the race when all the testosterone heads are trying to blow up their chances of finishing strong. Suprisingly, none of these guys ever make the podium and I end up smoking them at some point in the last couple of laps. I would say that 90% of the fastest racers in our area are friendly and polite to riders that they are overtaking. If you are closing fast on a guy, you know you're faster, but that doesn't mean that the guy is required to get out of your way. Especially on gnarly singletrack. What I usually do is close fast, ride their rear wheel for 15-30 seconds, maybe chat with them about their bike or how the race is going, and then ask them if they would mind if I get past. I have yet to have someone say no.

The bottom line is be polite, it's a public trail. If you race competitively, you are likely considerably faster than 99.9% of people that ride on public trails. Chances are good that they know that you race by how fast you are. Don't give racers a bad name by asserting your dominance and being rude to people on the trails. Talk to them as if they are your MTB brothers, and they will kindly let you by.
How about on your left?getoffmywheel
May 6, 2002 5:37 PM
It's amazing but it actually works and you'll find most people are cool about it. If you do any xc racing, you already know that. If you asked and he didn't yield, you'd have a point.
Reminds me of the time...-JC-
May 6, 2002 7:41 PM
I was riding solo at Demo forest (Santa Cruz co). At the top of the big climb in I catch a group of about 8 riders. Judging by the number of kickstands and book racks they were novice riders who really had no business somewhere as technical as Demo. Their "leader" was a slightly more advanced rider who was talking very loudly and authoritatively about what a bunch of pu$$ies downhillers are because they ride lifts up. As Gregg can attest, I've been known to hit Northstar on occasion but I mostly climb my own hills.

Anyway, I stop for a quick drink but it wasn't quick enough. the group beat me to the singletrack descent. I decided I would try to catch them at the beginning when they were all bunched together rather than trying to pick them off one by one for the next three miles. I pass 3 or 4 of them right off the bat no problem. I pass another 4 of them on a wider section where they were all in the low, slow line. I jumped the high fast one and got past them no problem. Then I run up behind their "leader" and he will not let me by. So I hook up on his wheel and push him a little. He is clearly way over his head but still wont let me pass. We run up on a hard right hand turn that has a nice natural berm to it. He heads right for the lowest possible line of the berm effectively making it useless. I back off some and watch as he goes straight up it and over the top. I slow down to make sure he is OK. I see him get up and start dragging his bike to the trail. I keep going.

Did I wreck him? No.

Did I feel bad about it? Not a bit.

On a road bike I am probably just like that guy (except not as much of a loudmouth) and you know what I do? Stay the he11 out of faster peoples way.

JC
Nice story, reminds me of another.Leisure
May 7, 2002 2:33 AM
I was coming down a trail and turned a corner and saw a bunch of riders on their way up. I stopped in time, but the trail was narrow and I was trying to squeeze over to the side to let them pass. So what did their fearless leader do? He charges up at me as hard as he can, muttering assorted vulgarities that are, of course, too quiet for me to actually hear. I grow an incredulous smile as I watch this guy pass, hit the beginning of the corner, and promptly endo UP onto a bridge. The smile just sat there on my face, as I was too surprised to laugh. The guy was just laying there flopped on his back with his legs in the air, bike rolling off the trail. Same deal as you, I knew his riding buddies would promptly catch up to him and make sure he was alright, and I enjoyed the rest of my ride. Justice served, as my friend said.
Better to speak sooner than later.Leisure
May 7, 2002 2:43 AM
Instead of speaking and solving the issue early you let yourself pack and stew until you over-reacted. I can see how you wanted the perfect ride but you still need to convey what you want. Now while everyone else says it's possible he didn't know what to do, your original conclusion could be correct and maybe he WAS trying not to let you pass. But even if this is the case, speaking out helps because it puts him on the spot. No need to be abrasive, either, as that might just make him more defensive. There's a lot of good advice people are offering here.
Riding single track: its about soulLargo
May 7, 2002 4:57 AM
Whoah, agro dude!!
This is why i would rather ride my MTB for fun, and race on the road.
Single track doesn't lend itself to racing, too narrow, hard to pass, etc..
You want power? Go do hill intervals on the road bike, leave the single track to people having fun.
Eschelon, you sound like a complete moron.
speak up, don't be shySFgeek
May 7, 2002 3:41 PM
It's got to be an issue of general shyness.

In this case, if someone was following me for not one, not two, but three whole miles on a trail, a technical trail, I would probably turn around to greet the person - to see if his/her experience is as good as the one I was having (and to make sure i'm not being stalked); and to make sure I'm not in the way.

By the same token, if I was the person following or passing, I would let the person know that I'm planning on occupying the same space to either hang out ("Hi.") or pass ("On your left").

Communicating and being polite is a great way to have great experience; and if the person is an idiot, then take off and leave him/her in your dust - but know, at least, you were nice. And if the person thinks you're the creep, then s/he can take off and if that doesn't work, someone should call the police. Or at least the fashion police to complain about the other's clothes!