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That 11T cog(19 posts)

That 11T cogelviento
May 6, 2002 8:36 AM
The necessity for a 11T ring (and in some limit cases, the quest for a 10T cog) has been much debated and sometimes given rise to name calling, ego crushing, etc. A recent article in Procycling by Chris Boardman, arguably the fastest men on two wheels, said something like, I'd like to meet someone who actually needs a 11T. I can comfortably sprint with Mario using a 12T, or something like that (sorry forgot to bring mag to office).

Does this bring any new light to the old topic?
noDougSloan
May 6, 2002 8:41 AM
Gotta consider terrain. Ever ride down a 10 mile descent, trying to keep up with some other fast riders, where you'd be spun out in a 12? Also, maybe Boardman is comfy spinning 150 rpms.

An 11 is not truly "necessary," I'd say. However, it can allow some faster speeds at lower rpms in some circumstances.

Doug
cliche: I ran out of gears on my bike...eschelon
May 6, 2002 8:44 AM
I did a crit last year with my bro against cat 3's and my bro and I were dying through the whole race...I dropped out because my chain slapped off my ring and I lost the pack...hell they hit ~30+ around the corners...anyway, my bro ended up pulling over during the race and let the air out of his tire to pretend it was a mechanical problem which forced him to quit instead of telling people at the race he cracked...and he told me later that he needed to get a bigger chainring (more than 53t) in order for him to be faster at the crits.
use mine when...lonefrontranger
May 6, 2002 8:52 AM
I'm going down a 15-mile long descent (of which there are several handy to me in Boulder). The 11 definitely becomes useful then. It's nice to be able to keep pedaling at >50mph.

I've had my 53/11 just about spun out a couple times doing speedwork on a long gradual descent in a stiff tailwind. But then I'm a sprinter, so speedwork is my forte.

Other than that, I agree, there's not much use. FWIW, I also have a 39/25 low, with the option to go to 27 if necessary (Mavic 10 cassette on a Record groupo) These Colorado Rockies ain't kidding around :)

In Dayton, OH where I used to race, I ran a 53/42, 13-19 or 12-21 7-speed and didn't miss a lick. I think gearing is pretty dependent on geography. If you're not racing and don't keep a tub full of chainrings, cogs, etc... like we do, then 12-23 or 25 should work fine for most stuff, and don't be too proud to go to 27 or a triple if you ride steep hills and/or need the knee relief. If I do Triple Bypass you'd better believe I'll take my 'cross bike and slap a triple on it. I never met a hill I couldn't walk up :-)
do you really need to pedal @ 50mph?cyclopathic
May 6, 2002 9:33 AM
unless you're riding in tight pack and drafting, you'd go faster if you stay aero.
yes, here's whylonefrontranger
May 6, 2002 10:49 AM
1) keeps you balanced and much more stable as you set up for downhill turns
2) keeps your legs more "open" and loose, especially on a long cold descent after a climb
3) keeps your neck and shoulders from locking up, as they would in a full aero tuck for a 20-minute+ descent.

Watch the pros descending in the Alps. Colorado roads are wider and more open. Being able to pedal and not just pedal air on a long, fast descent is a good thing.
the 11 and sprinting...merckx56
May 6, 2002 8:53 AM
there's a guy here in town that fancies himself a sprinter, but can't get out of his own way! i beat him 99 times out of 100. the funny of this story is the fact that he said he was "ready for me" the other day because he got an 11. he said he was spinning out the 12 in a sprint. i told him that was sad because i was kicking his ass in the 14! at forty miles an hour, one is just starting to get on top of a 12. there is no need for an 11 or even a 10. if you can spin out a 12, you are going about 50mph and descending a huge mountain pass, AND your nuts are way bigger than mine!
53x12=119.25 gear inches
53x11=130.09 gear inches
spin out an 11 an i think you actually burst into flames!
or your hips dislocate and come off of your body completely!
'spinning out'TJeanloz
May 6, 2002 9:28 AM
The key to this question is really at what cadence somebody is 'spun out'. If I can only spin 90rpm, then I could quite easily spin out an 11. Just to throw some numbers out, somebody who 'spins out' at 120 rpm is will spin out a 53/11 at 38.62mph (700c wheels). Jump to 150rpm, and speed goes to 48.2mph.

So whether an 11 can be spun out or not, is limited by how fast the rider can spin.
I think you need to check your calculationscyclopathic
May 6, 2002 9:40 AM
53/12 combo at 120RPM gives 42.1mph
I think you need to check your calculationsamflyer
May 6, 2002 9:57 AM
True, but remember too that a metric 11-tooth cog will be way different than an English 11. Makes a big difference.

Steve
I was no math major,TJeanloz
May 6, 2002 9:58 AM
And I forgot to quote my source, www.analyticcycling.com; I got all the numbers from there.
Or, I'm on crack,TJeanloz
May 6, 2002 10:01 AM
You choose.

I re-ran the numbers and they were different. I don't know how I muffed it the first time. Regardless, my point is the same, somebody who can't spin well can easily spin out an 11. Everybody has been leaving out the capability to spin fast variable.
that's truecyclopathic
May 6, 2002 10:22 AM
I've ridden with riders who had "natural" cadence 50-60RPM. Still, it isn't very common. 53/11 isn't needed for long period of time, one should be able to compencate for it with higher cadence.
'spinning out'merckx56
May 6, 2002 2:18 PM
i'm not talking about some poor shmoe with a club foot and a short leg who can only turn over at 60rpm. i'm talking about the real world of pushing a gear until you are spinning too quickly and must shift into a higher/harder one! our tuesday sprints wind up and, at the line, touch 40 miles an hour, on a flat road. granted, i'm talking about a bunch of cat 2 and 3 guys who are still in the mix at the end of a 50 miler that averages around 25mph, but an 11 is not needed! period. if you are talking about pro dogs, one must remember that they know how to sprint properly and jump very late and are still accelerating when they hit the line. they usually use anywhere between a 14 and an 11. a 20 pound overweight cat 5 doesn't NEED and 11. it won't help them when the screw turns and the paceline is at 32mph! drop it in the 11 all you want, but you'll still be watching the group ride away!
i've sprinted to a race finish once in the 11 and i lost! the next year i stayed in the 13 and stayed on top of the gear and won the race. the finish was decidedly downhill and my max speed said 45.6 mph!
not for sprintingDougSloan
May 6, 2002 3:01 PM
The 11 cog is not for sprinting, at least on level ground. It's for downhills.

I agree, likely no one needs an 11 for sprinting; sprinting is more about accelleration, which is better in a high cadence lower gear; tall gears are for cruising it really high speeds, usually reserved for big descents.

For the FC 508 (in the desert) I used a 55x11 combination, as some of the hills go on for 20 miles, up and down. Having that really tall gear allows picking up a little more speed instead of just sitting or spinning wildly for 30 minutes straight.

Doug
the 11 and sprinting...johnjohn
May 6, 2002 10:25 AM
Damn, I think I must be getting morbid! That whole bursting into flame reference had me cracking up. Wickedly funny indeed.
I spin my 11 out all the timeLC
May 6, 2002 9:00 AM
with a 46T chainring and a tailwind :)
I need 11 in the front more often than in the back....(nm)cory
May 6, 2002 11:06 AM
All depends on your style and the conditionsLargo
May 6, 2002 6:42 PM
If you've ever spun out a 13 in a tailwind, that 11 is a godsend, likewise in a TT.
Everyone has their own style, masher or spinner, and an 11 can make perfect sense for some people.
I've got a 56x11 combo that i use for SPECIFIC conditions in TT's, and when the conditions are right, its an unbeatbale combo.