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position question(18 posts)

position questionweiwentg
May 5, 2002 9:24 AM
ok. position question. my saddle is as far forward as it can possibly go. and very often, I find my butt slightly forward on my saddle. woof (our friendly resident dog) says I'm too far forward. looking at me, I might agree, but somehow, my butt decided I was not too far forward.
what say y'all? do I need to move my saddle back? do I need to move my heavy a55 back? do I need to do both? my knee is right over the pedal spindle when my rear is properly on the saddle (i.e., as was NOT the case in the pic). or should I just shrug my shoulders and say I have an ultra-goofy (criterium) riding position? or do I get a shorter stem (which means a 9cm stem, which is kinda hard to find, but oh,well...)?
woof, to answer your question, I think I was stable enough in the turns. I wasn't completely confident, but this is only my third criterium.
Try thisMrCrud
May 5, 2002 9:31 AM
Try raising the nose of your saddle a bit. This will prevent your butt from slipping to the front. If everything else is good, this might be the problem. I had a similar problem, and this was the answer, so give it a try.

Mr.Crud
re: position questionfrank_freedom
May 5, 2002 10:04 AM
Hi,

you must feel a lot of pressure in your privates amigo...

Why not look into a stem and shorter handlebar combo?

I think Salsa makes a good handlebar with much shorter reach in the drops:

http://www.salsacycles.com/index1.htm

Take a look at those,

François
Seatpost?Bigburlymtnman
May 5, 2002 11:13 AM
Do you have a seatpost that at the top it has an extension that puts the seat towards the bars more? If you do have one like that, get a straight seatpost without the extra extension at the top, and that'll put the seat back even farther than it is now. Hopes this helps.

chardin
Seatpost?weiwentg
May 5, 2002 11:23 AM
it's a thomson elite (non setback, as you can see). no extension or anything, if I understand you correctly. like I said, my KOP position is correct...
re: position questionCT1 Guy
May 5, 2002 11:45 AM
The effective TT on Giant frames is pretty long and so a 9cm stem would not be a bad idea given your size - I'm about the same size and so have some experience - big guys positions sometimes don't work for us small guys. I can't see your seat height, but you might want to think about dropping it a bit to get your butt on the saddle.
I had a problem with always ending up on the nose of thebill
May 5, 2002 5:37 PM
saddle. Lowered my seat height a bit (a bit lower than a lot of the standard advice) and it worked great. I'm now firmly in the saddle, with more power at the bottom of my pedal stroke. Bike feels better balanced, too.
Course, your problem may not be mine, but try moving the seat height lower, anyway. Worse that can happen is that you move it back up.
Not necessarily bad...Ron B
May 5, 2002 2:30 PM
If it's comfortable for you why worry about it too much. Not everybody is built the same and just because you don't look like everybody else on the bike doesn't mean that it's not right.

I have the same problem with most bikes My problem stems from very short femurs and short legs overall 32" inseam and I'm 6 feet tall.

My current set up has a 0 degree lay back seatpost, 73.5 degree seat angle and the seat pushed most of the way forward. The seat is also a Titec Berzerker DH which is a very long mountain bike saddle that works very well for me. Even with this set up I find my self moving forward a little on the seat.

Even though I'm forward on the bike, it handles very well and feels very comfortable. If your KOP position is fine and you feel comfortable I wouldn't worry about it too much. Check the seat angle of the bike, it may be slack for your proportions.

For me I would really like a bike with a 74 to 74.5 degree seat angle and a 0 degree lay back.

Basically go with what works.
re: position questionmerckx56
May 5, 2002 2:55 PM
you are way too far forward. woof is right! move your seat back. roll your bars up a bit. the way they are positioned forces you forward. that knee/spindle thing is a load of crap! during certain times, your butt will naturally migrate forward or back. that will change where your knee is is relation to the spindle, so the static "knee over spindle" argument is rendered moot! that can also change depending where your cleats are positioned on your shoes! you don't need a shorter stem, but maybe one with a bit of rise, which will bring you up a bit and forcing your weight back to where your saddle needs to be! your hands are too low! 1)push the seat back. 2)roll your bars up! 3)try a stem with a bit of positive rise.
re: position questionweiwentg
May 5, 2002 3:18 PM
hear ya on the bars. but would moving my seat back help? my body seems to want to go forwards - sometimes I feel a little stretched out on the bike.
re: position questionwillem72
May 5, 2002 3:58 PM
WWT

I agree with other posters that it's probably best to move the saddle back a little. You could use a spirit level to check it's dead level. Also I'd roll the bars back a bit, so the top of the STI lever is say 1cm above the top of the handlebar tops. Some savvy fellows (Hogg and Kennedy) here in Australia say that if you sit/slide too far forward you lose pelvic stability and instead use a lot of extra energy locking the pelvis into the solid platform you need to generate real power. The SFs suggest pelvic stability is enhanced by having a seated position behind the bb, also allowing earlier application of power at top of stroke when climbing. 90mm stem is fine - the Giants have a long tt and some of them (the OCRs) come with a hinged ajustable stem which (when the hinge is taken in account) means the overall stem length is waaaaay too long for most people.

Hope you enjoy the crits - they can be a real blast once you get used to them.

W72
bingo!colker
May 6, 2002 5:31 AM
i would say maybe even try a longer stem to push butt back in order to balance the added weight upfront.
You guys aren't listening to our hero. You looked at the pic,bill
May 6, 2002 7:09 AM
and you said, yeah, too far forward, but you're applying conventional wisdom without thinking about the problem. Don't forget that he ended up there because he was trying to keep his butt on the comfortable (i.e., correct) part of the saddle. He felt that he was sitting too far forward on the saddle (while still in an acceptable pedaling position, according to the rules of thumb), so he moved the saddle forward to get under him. Obviously, moving his saddle forward hasn't fixed it, but, certainly, moving his saddle back won't, either. Moving his saddle back, getting a longer stem is going to make his problem worse.
Believe me, I'm not trying to single out anyone here, but it is really amazing to me how much myth there is out there from all of these rules of thumb. It seems that no one, and I really mean no one, has a handle on how to daddress these problems in the abstract. I guess you just have to try stuff.
compact frames produce a diff. set of fit issuesgregg
May 6, 2002 5:37 AM
As you know, weiwen, I have the same frame and size as you. I often notice myself up on the front of the saddle too ('specially for climbs). I rationalized the fit as part of the race oriented design of the bike.

This is a big reason why I am hoping to get a different frame for long rides and centuries. The super light weight is nice, but I just can't seem to get the fit dialed in either.

-g
Try lowering the saddle. I'm running an experiment here,bill
May 6, 2002 7:13 AM
advocating a lower position than conventional rules of thumb advise. I just went lower, and I'm still sort of testing it out. At first, I felt more powerful but I would have a hard time saying I was more comfortable in my knees (although my butt stayed where it should, instead of sneaking forward). Yesterday, I went fifty hard miles very happily.
I'll try it (nm)gregg
May 6, 2002 12:26 PM
Try lowering the saddle. I'm running an experiment here,weiwentg
May 6, 2002 2:16 PM
how much lower? I'll give it a shot as soon as I can get back on the damn bike...
Try lowering the saddle. I'm running an experiment here,willem72
May 6, 2002 3:32 PM
Actually I take Bill's points here to some degree.

1) I dropped the seat height on my tourer over about 6 weeks so now it's about 1cm lower than on my racing bike, and everything is going fine - seated, powerful, no front-of-knee problems etc

2) maybe I wasn't really listening to what you had to say and just got too involved in sprouting the ROT (rule of thumb) - if your saddle is level and your stem is not too long, and you still drift forward then that may be the ideal position for you - it is for Brad MacGee (who rode to a second and a third on stages of last year's TdF): simply, he gets most power from a forwards position, and attempts to move his seat back have proved disastrous

Yes, try it all out, and stay rubber side down!

W72