|What's with Litespeed?||RoyGBiv|
Apr 19, 2002 12:57 PM
|This is not - I repeat, not - intended to start any kind of dispute here. |
From time to time, I've observed debates - hell, all-out flame wars - over Litespeed bicycles.
What's the argument here? The quality of the bike? Snob appeal? Reverse snobbery? Is there something wrong with bicycles made out of titanium?
The only reason I ask is I've been toying with buying a Litespeed. A cycling buddy says it'll be the last bike I need to buy. But this week, I saw a titanium-built Colnago Ovalmaster dressed up in that Geo paint job. Now the fun begins.
Any and all level-headed thoughts and insights are appreciated.
|re: What's with Litespeed?||Troyboy|
Apr 19, 2002 1:11 PM
|A lot of it is the poseur factor and Fredism. The best racer/riders I know personally are on team rigs, free rigs, Cannondales, Treks, Fujis, KHS, etc. No club rider on his LS or C40 in the world could spank some guys I know on their alu Fuji w/RevX or old Dales and Cosmics or whatever.
It aint about the bike.
|im not saying nothin||bic|
Apr 19, 2002 11:45 PM
|No need to belittle other brands...||eschelon|
Apr 19, 2002 1:15 PM
|I've ridden and owned many bicycles. I used to be hard core MTB, but I grew a brain and found road cycling :)
Anyway, this is the example that I tell others what it was like before I bought my Litespeed and after:
Before: I fell in love with this fat chick and things were going great. She treated well and we had alot of fun. The sex was great because that's all that I knew before her (i.e. riding aluminum bikes)...but I always ended up beaten up and worn all over my body after long rides and races.
After: Then I found my true love...she had killer looks, and a killer bod...and boy, could she perform. Just looking at her inspires greatness. I could be as rough as I wanted and take it as easy as can be and yet she still didn't leave me feeling beaten up...she inspires me to keep going with no trade-offs requested.
Some may call me sick. Some may think I need to get a life. Some may think I need to get laid more often. It doesn't matter. As long as I have this bike, I feel like there is hope in my life. This bike has only made my love for cycling stronger.
It's amazing how riding a bike like this changed my life so much...mentally and spiritually. Maybe it's conincidence that this bike is made from titanium...or it's from Litespeed...why question happiness or analyze it to death? Happiness is meant to be grabbed with both arms, held tight to your heart, and run like hell from those that want to diminish it within you.
Apr 19, 2002 1:16 PM
|We all feel it from time to time. I feel it towards 5200s, but not towards Litespeeds 'cause I have one. Something about ubiquitousness connotes trendiness and prompts resentment.
I think even the average LS detractor can't really say with a straight face that they aren't a fine frame.
The other thing that has fueled the flames to the point of silliness, at least on this board, is the over-the-top reactions of a certain LS owner. Then it just becomes kind of a baiting game.
Otherwise, you just hear "but Moots welds are pretty" and "but Serotta has the size cycle and cool paint," and the other such difference of opinions that makes the world go 'round.
|Very very very true. I hadn't considered that. nm||Troyboy|
Apr 19, 2002 1:26 PM
Apr 19, 2002 1:42 PM
|Brilliant and succinct response. It's part of our national character to champion the underdog, often at the expense of the overdog.|
|JT, with all due respect because I||Lazywriter|
Apr 19, 2002 6:19 PM
|don't have a problem with you at all and I know you have been critical of me but I am usually just laughing my ass off when I post my rants because it is ridiculous to even argue about this bullsh%$. I enjoy pissing off some particularly arrogant people off.
However, you hit something on the head which is the reason why I post the way I do. The fact that others resent a big bike company has always been ridiculous to me. In the beginning I would always say it was just a bike company and ask why does it trigger so much hostility?
I said it was like the 3 Stooges skit, "Niagra Falls, Slowly I turn" when the guys snaps everytime he hears Niagra Falls. LITESPEED rahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
So I find it amusing to be contradictory to these idiots that seem so moved by seeing the name. LS bashing went on long before I started chiming in. It is funny because when I bought my first LS over 5 years ago, they were fewer in # and still coveted as the ti frame to have. I understand the phenomenon and have stated the same thing you did about the ubiguitousness causing people to dislike a product because it loses its exclusivity and that is what strokes the ego of people. The idea that I am special because I ride a bike few can afford or have. I ride a Vortex but drive a Honda so that shows you where my priorities are.
And when people have legitimate questions about the frame, some moron will invariably make ridiculous claims about what a piece of sh%$ it is and that the welds will fall apart on a ride down a mountain. I mean come on, it is ridiculous. I don't own stock in the company but they have been good to me. Always answering my questions and sending me free decals when I need them and t shirts when I bought my new Vortex.
The best analogy I can use is when a teenager is into a rock band and has their CD and tells all their friends that they are into this great band and they should be into them too. Then that band hits Z-100 and the song that was their favorite now becomes crap because it is "played out" and now everyone is into it. It loses its exclusvity but the inherent meaning and the song itself was the same one that they loved at first.
I wouldn't buy a 5200, but if someone wanted to give me one, I would love to have it. But I hear ridiculous comments like if someone gave it to me I wouldn't take a Litespeed. What a total douchebag. Honestly, what a tool.
Plus when I hear ridiculous claims about poor LS quality, and how Merlin sucks now that LS bought it, I laugh but it isn't fair to an American company that makes one of the best ti frames in the world.
|They are both awesome rigs.||Troyboy|
Apr 19, 2002 1:25 PM
|I've been lucky enough to ride an Ultimate, Classic and Master X Light. Go for it if you can afford it!
If I had that type of budget for yet another ride (totally absurd) I'd prefer something else, but that is purely my own personal choice.
|It's About Choice||TonyR|
Apr 19, 2002 1:46 PM
|When I was getting back into road cycling, I test road everything under the sun. Based on my needs, profile and budget I bought an Al bike. Will this be the last bike that I ever buy. No, not if I can help it, and it wouldn't have been if it were a Lightspeed, a Colnago, and Merlin or a Trek 5200.
Other people might buy steel, Ti or CF, it just depends on their siutation.
As for snob appeal or Fredism, or whatever someone wants to call it, who the bleep cares. I'd love to own a Calfee or Spectrum/Merlin at some point, but I doubt that I'll ever be able to justify the cost. You see the one thing that I did figure out over my months of test rides is that it isn't about the bike. Rather it's about the rider, and getting a bike that fits same.
The fact is that I love my ZR-1.0, and while GT's will soon be sold in Costco and WallMart, I could care less. I know that its a good bike, and if I can scrounge up a few more nickles and dimes I'll buy an extra frame and put it away for later use. Otherwise, I'll probably find a custom builder and have another Al frame built. Al bikes work for me.
Living NorCal, I see ridiculously overpriced everything, including bikes, every day. It seems silly to me, but not much more. For over the top nothing has topped the Credit Agricole Look and the Deutches Telkom Pinarello riding on top of the Range Rover. Lightspeeds, 5200's, Calfee's, Look, Colnago's are everywhere, ridden mostly people you would call Freds. I jack'em up regularly on my bike, who's progeny will soon be sold in discount stores. Yes it does make me grin, at least until one of my riding buddies blasts me on his lower end Giant compact. Just ride and enjoy it.
BTW, for what it's worth Tom Weisel does ride a Klien, garrish American flag paint job and all. He obviously could afford any bike he wants.
|re: What's with Litespeed?||steve1244|
Apr 19, 2002 1:55 PM
|I have ridden a LS Classic for the past three years and absolutely love the rig. The LS may not be as cool as a Colnago or a Seven or as high-powered in the "bang for your buck category" as a Dean, but it's a damn good frame.
I'm with JTolleson on this one. LS is a fairly big name out there with lots of bicycles on the road. It's not hard to generalize the large numbers of LS riders as lemmings or the equivalent of status conscious BMW purchasers. Hey, whatever. Everyone's entitled to an opinion.
Even though I ain't no lemming and don't drive no beamer, I'm still damn happy I went LS three years ago.
|I think I get the picture. Thanks.||RoyGBiv|
Apr 19, 2002 2:14 PM
|The dispute is about style, not substance. |
Some people who ride Litespeeds think they're cool, or are perceived to think they're cool; some people who don't ride Litespeeds resent Litespeed riders because they think they're cool, ... yadda, yadda, yadda ...
So there's nothing wrong with titanium, per se? And whether it's a Litespeed, an Ovalmaster or even if Huffy comes out with a ti bike, it would be a good long-term investment, right?
By the way, my cycling buddy, who does not ride a Litespeed but wishes he could, says many of the Tour de France bikes are actually Litespeeds but with other teams' colours and bikes' logos. Is that true?.
|I think I get the picture. Thanks.||pina|
Apr 19, 2002 3:20 PM
|I wouldn't say many. Several years ago Zulle and Virenque rode litespeeds in the tour, around 1997. Lotto now rides litespeed, but i think it is incorrect to say many. Most tour riders are riding aluminum.|
|Lance Armstrong won all three time trials||Lazywriter|
Apr 19, 2002 6:36 PM
|on a rebadged Litespeed Blade in 1999 TDF as well as the 1993 World Championship on what was essentially a Litespeed Classic today but was the Ultimate way back when.
The other post was correct in that Virenque and quite a few others were riding custom Vortexes that they paid for a few years back.
Use of materials in the pro peleton goes in waves. Ti was big one year then carbon then aluminum etc. It all seems to cycle but all bikes at that level are awesome.
The beauty of ti for the person who has to shell out the cash is the indestuctability for the most part. If a ti bike doesn't crack at the weld within the first month of riding it, odds are the welds are pure and the thing will last a lifetime.
As far as quality control issues and LS, the fact that Ls makes so many frames, they will inevitably have more flawed frames than a Moots, but for the most part LS is careful about what they ship out because the fact that they offer lifetime guarantee, it is in their best interest to make a good product.
Lotto Adecco is riding stock Vortexes this year and have been tearing up the roads with them. So for all the LS detractors, that is more exposure for LS which will result in the proliferation of LS in Europe where they are very rare now. Oh well.
Both my Classic and Vortex are beautiful bikes and I haven't really gotten totally used to the Vortex yet. It is a lot stiffer than my Classic which rides so smoothly. The front end is a lot stiffer as well as is the BB but I still love the ride of the Classic. If I had to choose one, right now I would have to go with my long time friend the Classic. Normally I would think I would have newbikeitis and say the Vortex, but objectively speaking, the Classic is more sweet. But they serve different functions.
Apr 20, 2002 9:11 AM
|Lazy, I feel for you everytime someone chums the surface but I give you credit for taking the bait and making the reel scream everytime. |
As for Europe, I've been living in the UK going on four years now riding a Vortex and have also traveled quite a bit in Europe. Litespeeds are not frequently seen on the roads. Until last year, I did not see one on the roads and I ride every day. Last summer I finally saw another one riding through Richmond Park and last week, another, again in Richmond Park. If you talk to the shop owners such as Condor, BikePark, Geoffrey Butler or FW Evans, they'll tell you that the old distributor was simply bad news. The new one is much better and there's actually a US expatriate working there who was quite helpful when I had a stuck post in my bike. They have done a better job at signing up new dealers and this year, you see a greater number in the stores. That being said, they're very expensive so I doubt that they'll ever sell in great numbers versus a Colnago. The problem for US versus EU products is that the former are liable for import duty and VAT. A Vortex in the UK costs about £2500, that's about $3,600. A C-40 costs £1,800 including post and stem while a Pinarello Prince costs about £1,500. I love my Vortex but if I hadn't brought it over when I moved, I'd be riding a C-40.
That being said, you do see a fair number of Cannondales and non-5200 Treks, both UK and Europe. It's definitely one of those "I want it because it's made elsewhere" things. The people in the bike shops love seeing a Litespeed that's ridden in person as again, they're rarely seen. I've had two custom steel bikes made in the UK and the builders were both very interested and impressed by the workmanship.
As for Litespeed's foray into Al, I'm not that excited about their decision. If I want Al with carbon stays, I'd probably go elsewhere. I like the curved rear seat stays on my Vortex but I don't like them in carbon, It's personal. I for one would buy another Litespeed with no qualms but only if I were located in the States. Outside of the US and for the price, C-40's probably the way for me.
Apr 19, 2002 2:54 PM
|Just remember, Litespeed is not the only ti builder out there. And, they are not necessarily the best either. Nothing wrong with the brand, but don't start out thinking LS is the standard to measure all ti bikes against.|
|I knew someone had to do it.||JS|
Apr 19, 2002 3:42 PM
|Let me guess, "Seven is the best bike made", Or "Moots welds can't be beat", and my favourite, "Serotta knows how to fit you to a bike" ughhhh.|
|I had one.. and it cracked alone headtube||cyclopathic|
Apr 19, 2002 4:08 PM
|bad weld. LS fixed it under warranty but I could never trust it so I sold the frame. That must have been my luck (or welder's drinking problem).|
|re: What's with Litespeed?||gtx|
Apr 19, 2002 5:01 PM
|When I worked in shops in the mid-90s, we'd get LS frames with qc issues (alignment issues, poor facing) you wouldn't see on a Moots or an Ibis, for example. So you have a lot of people who work in shops down on LS. And for a while they were using a pressed-in AL sleave in the headtube, which was lame--lot of creaking bikes and annoyed customers. Also, their mtb geometry was terrible for a while--seems like they got it right lately, just in time for everyone to lose interest in ti hardtails. Then there is LS pricing, which is kind of goofy, and the fact that they are always hyping minor changes every model year and then you see the prior year's bikes being sold at major discounts. And now there's the integrated headsets. LS will always give people something to complain about. Doesn't mean they don't make nice bikes. I think if you can find one of their mid-level frames on sale at the end of the year, it will represent a great value.|
Apr 19, 2002 7:12 PM
|First off I will say that I rode an Litespeed built Eddy Merckx EX Ti frame for several years and liked it. The quality was excellent and contrary to what Mr. Lazywriter stated in his post, the EX WAS the frame that Lance Armstrong rode when he was with Motorola, not the Classic.
I think Litespeeds real downfall relative to public relations centers in their marketing hype and stratospheric pricing. $3000 for a Vortex? Give me a break.
Technology wise the frames are nice but nothing earth shattering. And they have had their share of quality problems, such as seat post clamp problems, which are excusable on lower priced frames but not so considering the prices they command.
|Ness, what the hell is the difference||Lazywriter|
Apr 19, 2002 7:26 PM
|if it is produced by Litespeed. Man you are a pain in the a$$. First of all LS built the bikes for the Motorola team so the EX didn't even exist at the time in that Merckx didn't sell them yet. They were rebadged Litespeeds just like Lances Blade wasn't a Trek just becuase the decals said so. So you are actually wrong.
The Titanium EX is a Litespeed with Merckx stickers and slightly different geometry. Same ti, same welders, same bike. Plus I said it was the Ultimate which back then was essentially a Classic today. The Ulitmate evelved into something much different. You are exactly the reason why I persist and obviouisly come across like an A$$hole because you are one of those people I meet in daily life that I would live to just tell off but social constraints always prevail. Many are you an annoying bastard.
Apr 19, 2002 7:32 PM
|a Vortex isn't any more expensive that high level steel , aluminum and carbon which are not a durable as a ti frame that can last literally a lifetime.
I have had steel frames that rusted, aluminum that fatigued and carbon that was scraped and made me nervous after a spill that its integrity was affected.
So if you buy a ti bike by any manufacturer, it is most likely gonna be the most durable considering all the possible scenarios. I never said Litespeed is the best, there is no best, just one amongst the best.
Plus I dont pay retail anyway so I got my ride more than a grand below retail price. Brand new out of the box, you just have to negotiate. or wait until the end of the year to get a great deal.
|Pessism, I mean Nessism to||Lazywriter|
Apr 19, 2002 11:56 PM
|further prove a ridiculous point, a little tidbit. Look at the Litespeed Classic on the LS site and you will see that at the edge of the white paint (that is paint with a decal on top) you will see the World Championship color stripes. What do you suppose that stands for genius????
Only bikes that were ridden and won have this and it isn't BS. I know for a fact so please stop trying to prove me wrong each and every time you obnoxious bastard.
|lazy, why do you have to go postal ...||bianchi boy|
Apr 20, 2002 2:05 PM
|every time somebody says something that you don't agree with? Nessism is one of the most knowledgeable people who posts here. He really knows his stuff when it comes to frames, and his knowledge is very evident from his posts. He also makes his points without insulting people and name-calling.
You are a PR nightmare for the Litespeed Corp. They make fine bikes and most people realize it. However, the way you attack anyone who says the slightest thing critical about LS's tends to make others just want to pile on. Lighten up. People will listen to you and respect what you have to say if you just learn how to say it without lashing out at everyone.
|You know, I totally admit you are||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 4:07 PM
|right, but I have a weak spot for a few who constantly reply to me and I lash out. Its an Impulse Control Disorder, but I feel better after I beat the sh$% out of my girlfriend. Hold on! POW BAM CRASH.
|So on that issue:||Leisure|
Apr 21, 2002 2:51 AM
|Wait fifteen minutes or so before responding to posts that hit a nerve. When you do decide to type it out, spend a little extra time focusing on the point you really want to make rather than losing yourself in a bunch of flaming. Going through the grammar and spellcheck might make it easier to follow through with this. Then read it as though you were the recipient. If you find you've written ANYTHING insulting, you aren't finished; go back and edit.
Be prepared to deal with some extra flack for awhile. Not to beat you down, but you've earned it. A lot of the other posters on this board HAVE NOT earned your negative responses. Even if they had, you shouldn't be posting that way.
I don't believe we should be turning this board into some sort of public therapy session, particularly when you're not explicitly asking for it. I don't think it's appropriate. I also prefer to ignore flame wars. But this one time I'll fall out of form and give you some free advice. Take it or leave it. But (in the classic therapy mantra,) you need to realize your current reaction patterns are not working for you. Try my "delayed response" tactic for a while. If you take it seriously I think a lot of things will fall into place for you.
Apr 19, 2002 11:01 PM
|Yo Nurse Ratchet o' Lazyrida' o' whateva' yo' name be, yo' ass be postal, whitey! I think yo' patients gots'ta be havin' some way baaad effect on yo' ass. Slap mah 'fro! I fell out at yo' ass sayin', "You are exactly the reason why I persist and obviouisly come across like an A$$hole because you are one of those people I meet in daily life that I would live to just tell off but social constraints always prevail."
Aint dat plum some long winded way o' sayin' yo' ass be some chickensh!t in real life an' yo' ass plum live out yo' tough guy fantasies in da house? Yo' ass need some goat slappin'. Word t' yo' mama, litespeeds aint diesel an' yo' ass be some Joe Sad. While we be at it, who learn'd yo' ass how t' spell? Yo' ass gots'ta o' been puffin' crack an' drinkin' 40 when yo' ass wuz in school.
|Are you retarded?||Lazywriter|
Apr 19, 2002 11:40 PM
|honestly are you. First of all your post isn't very politically correct like you usually are when you post under your regular name. Some would say it is blatantly racist.
Secondly, I am not known for my typing and dont bother to correct my mistakes when I post to jerkoffs like you. I assure you I don't need to prove how tough I am. Not hiding from anyone you dickhead. Keep em coming I am amused as I obvioiusly affect you enough for you to post such gibberish. Retard
Apr 20, 2002 10:03 AM
|If you're implying that I wrote that message, you're an even bigger dope than I thought you were.|
|Oops, that's Mr. Bocia||mickey-mac|
Apr 20, 2002 2:41 PM
|Same message as before.|
|O.K. Columbo I guess you've gotta||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 3:37 PM
|make a comeback because Baretta just went to jail. Like I said you are a friggin weirdo. Nothing has changed.|
|MY o MY aren't we||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 3:48 PM
|a little Narcissistic. Of course I had to be referring to you because. No, not in particularly but it wouldn't surprise me because you wouldn't have the balls to actually use your own handle when saying something that isnt PC. Don't want to ruin that "good guy"image.
I get a laugh out of you because you think you are "manipulating" me by baiting me when it is you who always responds to my posts and that fact that there are almost 1700 views to this thread proves that people are looking for some entertainment. YOU ARE NOT THAT CLEVER
|is calling people a retard P.C.? just wondering?(nm)||merckx56|
Apr 20, 2002 10:07 AM
|I am the first to say I can't stand P.C. people||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 3:40 PM
|becaue there is a disingenuousness about them.|
|i don't like 'em either but...||merckx56|
Apr 20, 2002 5:51 PM
|it's a bit hypocritical to point out one wrong while commiting another!|
Apr 20, 2002 6:16 AM
|The Merckx EX frame was produced starting some time in 1995 (or maybe even 1994) which WAS during the Motorola/Merckx era. The frame that I owned was purchased in 6/96. Yes, they were produced by LS and had a sticker that read "Designed by Eddy Merckx and built by Litespeed".
The Merckx EX frames had a few different features compared to the standard LS frames at the time: downtube was heavily vertically ovalized at the headtube and horizontally at the bottom bracket, top tube was ovalized at seattube, chainstays were significantly larger and more ovalized, rear dropouts were horizontal style with adjuster screws. You can see some photos of my old EX in the link attached.
The Ultimate frame has always maintained a different marketing position compared to the Classic. Ultimate is designed to be a stiff crit oriented frame, the Classic is more of a road bike. The modern Classic is nothing like the Ultimate of old.
The Ultimates main design feature is, and has always been, the short rear chainstays and subsuquent short wheelbase. The first Ultimates were built with a seat tube that was bent with a curve in it so the rear wheel could tuck in closer to the crank. These frames also used some extra metal in the tubes which is plainly evident in the fact they they were heavier than the other frames in LS's lineup. The extra meat on the tubes was there on purpose to make the frame stiffer.
Last thing, my wife and I teach our children to never call people names. Calling me an A$$hole just shows your lack of maturity.
Apr 20, 2002 8:31 AM
|'94 or '95 is right for the LS built Merckx--they came out before I stopped working in shop, which was in '95. I know because I wanted one.|
|Ed, I apologize for the misunderstanding||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 8:39 AM
|because I actually was refering to myself coming across as an a$$hole because you are always trying to correct me. I guess it could have been interpreted by the way I worded it, but I did call you an annoying bastard which I stand behind. :)
Lance won the world championships on what I said was "ESSENTIALLY" a Litespeed Classic. That was in 1993 so the bikes they were building weren't exactly totally evolved into their own unique entities for lack of a better word. You see why I get annoyed. I didn't misrepresent anything nor was I wrong. I said that Lance won the 1993 World Championship on what was "ESSENTIALLY" a Litespeed Classic which was at least 2-3 years before there was a Merckx EX for sale.
LS experimented with many different combinations back then as they do now and were forever changing a tube shape here and diameter there. Man O Man stop trying to catch me is an untruth.
|lance actually won the world's on a merckx mx-leader!||merckx56|
Apr 20, 2002 10:13 AM
|study the 1993 worlds tape and look back at old photos. the chainstays are way too large to be a ti bike. 1) they just didn't produce ti stays that big at the time. 2)the bike is sitting in merckx's shop in meise, belgium, as part of his collection.
as an aside, the ex merckx ti came out in 1995. my shop owner "broke" his 1st generation oclv about the same time...ironic?
|NO, YOU ARE ACTUALLY WRONG||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 3:35 PM
|Tour Tech: Those Treks in the Postal arsenal (updated with photos)
By Lennard Zinn
VeloNews technical writer
This report filed July 15, 2001
There are four different colors of Treks you will see U.S. Postal racing on in the Tour. These are two different road bikes and two different time trial bikes. The two road frames you can buy, and there is no difference between them and models sold in bike shops.
The two time trial frames are strictly team issue. This use of stock frames is unique at that level of racing. Almost all top riders have frames custom built especially for them, often by a manufacturer other than the one whose name is on the frame.
In fact, Trek claims that Lance Armstrong's two Tour victories were the only ones ever on stock production frames. Armstrong always raced on custom frames throughout his professional career, and, on Motorola, he had custom Eddy Merckx bikes as well as custom Litespeeds painted like the Merckx team bikes. In fact, he won the world championship on one of these Litespeed.
Here is the actual link so you don't think I made this up.
|Nothing but the best for Armstrong||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 5:03 PM
|yet more proof
|just telling what i saw with my own eyes!(nm)||merckx56|
Apr 20, 2002 5:53 PM
|btw- are you on litespeed's payroll? they're nice bikes but..||merckx56|
Apr 20, 2002 5:58 PM
|jeez! time to get over it. the reason people him and haw about it is people like you would defend litespeed even if they decided to make a frame out of polybuytlene water pipe.
"it's the best federally recalled waterpipe frame there is", you probably say. find something else to be so passionate about, like helping our buddy netso through his tough time with parkinsons.
|Man, you must hate being proved wrong||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 6:16 PM
|and you were, but no, I am not on LS payroll. Why is it that everytime someone ahs a legitimate question about their bikes and I or others try to answer there is invariably others that will bash them. There is no need to bash, I just offer my positive experience and then all hell breaks loose. People love this topic 1800 views and counting. BTW you were lied to at that bike shop. LOL|
|that bike shop was the merckx factory!(nm)||merckx56|
Apr 21, 2002 6:16 AM
|EX Ti chainstays||Nessism|
Apr 20, 2002 7:40 PM
|My understanding is that the early Eddy Merckx Ti frames used by Motorola were working prototypes for the production frames to follow. One of the features of the EX frames are the huge chainstays -the dimensions are similar to a Columbus Max frame.
I'm not sure about the '93 Worlds in particular, but I do know that LA did ride a frame very similar to the EX during that time frame.
|EX chainstay photo||Nessism|
Apr 20, 2002 7:45 PM
|Tried to post a photo in my last message but must have screwed up. Maybe this time?|
|Comparing the photo to my Classic||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 8:01 PM
|the two look the same with regard to the chainstay size in relation to the bottom bracket. The main difference is the ovalizing at the BB of the other tubes which my Vortex has. Bottom line, Lance rode a Litespeed in 1993 which ever one model it eventually became isn't the issue. It was "essentially" a Classic or a Merckx EX for that matter because the two are almost identical in and of themselves.|
Apr 20, 2002 8:26 PM
|...you never give up. How about posting a photo of the chainstays of your Classic? I have never seen a Classic with chainstays that large.
LS did make some other Ti frames for Merckx's which had smaller chainstays, the AX and later the Majestic. It is these frames that were similar to Classic.
And congratulation on your Vortex. Nice frame. You are obviously very proud.
Funny thing is, my post support your claim that the LA rode a Ti frame with large chainstays back in the early Motorola days. To bad you don't recognize support when it's offered.
|You are the one who keeps||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 8:54 PM
|posting pics of your old Merckx and I have shown you links to prove that it was a LS that he rode and not a Merckx. He rode ti and I said it was "essentially" a Classic which is correct. Jeez, you could have given up 3 posts ago so what are you talking about never giving up? You are the one who can't admit fault. And your Merck Chainstays look similar to the Classic not exact but very close.
And yes, my new Vortex is awesome and I am proud of it. Tough to beat IMO.
|my take||bianchi boy|
Apr 19, 2002 7:16 PM
|All good points made above. I ride a steel frame because it's comfortable and I can afford it. I bought my entire bike (Gios with Campy Chorus 10) for less than the price of a new Litespeed Classic. If I could afford a Litespeed, I probably would think real hard about it but settle on a nice, light custom steel job. Why? Not because I've got anything against Litespeed, but just because I don't like the way they look. It's that simple. Some people like the simple metal look and never having to worry about paint chipping. Myself, I think bikes are works of art and I love color. One of my bikes is a 17-year celeste green Bianchi and the other is a cobalt blue Gios. It's superficial, but the beautiful paint jobs are one of the biggest reasons why I bought each bike. Maybe someday I will come to appreciate the simple utilitarian appearance of Litespeeds, perhaps if they at least came up with some different colored decals. Or maybe when I get rich I'll buy a custom-painted Litespeed.|
|Plain gray is not for everybody||Nessism|
Apr 20, 2002 6:26 AM
|I respect your opinion regarding the paint. A nice paint job really sets off a quality frame. One thing I can say about the brushed Ti finish however is that it IS durable. My old Ti frame looked like new after almost six years of use. Just take a Scotchbrite pad and rub away the scratches. Clean off road grime with WD40! Very simple clean up.
In the end though, I sold it to keep my lugged steel rigs. Something had to go.
|re: What's with Litespeed?||mackgoo|
Apr 20, 2002 4:17 AM
|Check out those "time to time" posts, you'l get the jist.|
|PUSHING 1700 VIEWS TO THIS THREAD||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 3:42 PM
|What is wrong with you people? LOL HAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA|
|PUSHING 2000 VIEWS TO THIS THREAD||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 7:09 PM
|PUSHING 2000 VIEWS TO THIS THREAD?||mickey-mac|
Apr 20, 2002 7:12 PM
|Yep, and have you ever seen the crowds that gather when someone is threatening to jump from a tall building or bridge? Watching people self-destruct in public is the great American pastime. On this board, you're only too happy to oblige.|
|Mickey, I was waiting to see how long||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 7:38 PM
|it would take you to respond. Still cannot resist me hugh?
I didn't start this thread. Self destruct? Me? Cmon don't you know me better than that. So how have you been loser?
Are you still a scummy lawyer? Doesn't surprise me though.
People with no scrupples can do that job. I hope you are really successful because although I am an athiest, I do believe in Karma. I am still glad to see how much I affect you. It is so obvious that I get a rise out of you. Hopefully not the kind in you underpants though, if then you are a homo by definition.
It is funny how you try to garner support from others to try and discredit me. You must have been a real prick in high school. Even now, people are always trying to catch me and others is general in falsehoods, but I am not wrong on this thread. You are still incredibly annoying you obsessed stalking fellow cyclist. I hope you don't live on the east coast because I would crap my tights if you rode up beside me and said "hi Lazy". The funny thing is that I wouldn't put it past you you crazy bastard.
What is your obsession with me. I never respond to you extraneous posts that I have nothing to do with. But seem to follow me around and stalk me. I should gt a virtual restraining order against you. Next thing I wil know my webcam will click on and you'll be watching me as I scratch my nuts on the couch watching t.v.. You know, there is medication to help you.
|OVER 2100 VIEWS AND I HAVE THE PROBLEM?NM||Lazywriter|
Apr 20, 2002 10:14 PM
|yea, because 20 of the actual posts are yours...||merckx56|
Apr 21, 2002 6:19 AM
|people keep looking to see what crap you throw out next!;)|
|WOW OVER 2200 VIEWS||Lazywriter|
Apr 21, 2002 7:51 AM
|There used to be 2 things one should/could never argue about, religion and politics. Now there is 3, religion, politics and Litespeed. Crazy bastards, just accept the fact that it is a great bike and move on. I only chime in when someone invariably makes a retarded statement that they are crap, QC sucks, the bike gave me Herpes BLAH BLAH BLAH.
And Merckx, why so testy? You are another one who cannot accept when they are proved incorrect.
|LAZYTHINKING RELOADS THREAD RECORD NUMBER OF TIMES!!!!!!||xxll|
Apr 21, 2002 12:07 PM
|Lazythinking doesn't your finger hurt from from reloading this thread 2297 times? I haven't read anything in this thread, just the message headlines. From past experience I know it's about Lazythinking being egocentric and exposing his man-child maturity. I also know that he manipulates the viewing numbers by reloading the thread as much as he can. Such a waste of energy, all for the sake of low self-esteem. Wouldn't it be nice to expend that same amount of energy on something positive for the board! |
Son, you really don't have what it takes to play with the big boys!
|First of all who are you Thurston Howell?||Lazywriter|
Apr 21, 2002 12:18 PM
|Big boys? How retarded a statement is that. Can't play with the big boys. I assure you i am not reloading over and over. This topic always gets a lot of hits.|
Apr 21, 2002 1:15 PM
|It's been evident for quite awhile that his low self-esteem causes him to do things like this. It's too bad he has to be so obsessed about how others see the threads he is involved in. His manipulating the view numbers is just another example of his intellectual dishonesty. |
"I HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU ALL BUT MY" posts almost invariably get the most views. Why????"
Lazywriter "Just watched 48 Hours news program" 4/18/02 2:44pm
WHY???? Because you do EXACTLY what xxll said.
|Not True-he has a trained chimp do it for him. hahahahaha||AllisonHayes|
Apr 21, 2002 1:59 PM
|You should hear what his parrot has to say!
btw. I could appreciate his ascerbic comments & deadpan humor more if there wasn't so much vile attached to the message.
|It is not the chimp, I actually am able to||Lazywriter|
Apr 21, 2002 2:44 PM
|hit the refresh button with my Weinie. Wanna come over Allison and watch me prove it?|
|If it were a choice between||AllisonHayes|
Apr 21, 2002 2:58 PM
|watching your wee willie wonka and sticking my finger in a gob of phlegm in the coin return of a pay phone, I would take the phlegm.
btw, you're getting better LOL
|If you were to stick you finger in the||Lazywriter|
Apr 21, 2002 3:09 PM
|phlehm filled coin slot, then you would have an idea of what it is like to perform cunnalingus. Maybe you do know what that is like. Are you a gym teacher by any chance? :)|
|Without further ado, here is Lazywriter, take a # and||Lazywriter|
Apr 21, 2002 3:12 PM
|one thing is for sure you will||AllisonHayes|
Apr 21, 2002 3:57 PM
btw, you would have promise if only your mind were as half as funny as the cartoon.