|Lance Armstrong Vs. Greg LeMond||RanierBeer|
Apr 15, 2002 7:13 PM
|In a recent article, I was reading that these two great riders aren't fond of each other. What is the history of their dislike of each other?|
|re: Lance Armstrong Vs. Greg LeMond||guido|
Apr 15, 2002 7:38 PM
|They are two fires that can only burn hotter together. LeMond was not particularly liked in Europe. Their definition of a champion was someone who could kick ass all year long, like Bernard Hinault, Eddy Merckx, and the great champions before them. LeMond specialized on one race, the Tour de France, and then was know as a complainer, a prima-donna.
Lance had, and maybe still has, the same reputation, but after he showed some generosity befitting his status as a "patron," he's being more well liked--and over-shadowing LeMond's accomplishments to boot. Bummer for LeMond, but he still builds some really nice bikes.
Apr 16, 2002 5:06 AM
|I have read that the French love LeMond since he is fluent in their language and of course, was a TDF champion. Maybe the rest of Europe is cold to LeMond, but the French like him. Hey, the French never made any sense anyway....|
Apr 16, 2002 6:12 AM
|Like I said||PaulCL|
Apr 16, 2002 6:49 AM
|They ain't right, the French.
Beautiful country (spent a week there last March/April), gorgeous people (spent hours in the Paris fashion district just gawking), awesome food (but got sick of eating duck for breakfast, lunch and dinner)...but they ain't right....
|(not to mention he rode for french teams) nm||SteveO|
Apr 16, 2002 6:58 AM
|re: Lance Armstrong Vs. Greg LeMond||Alpedhuez55|
Apr 16, 2002 8:35 AM
|I think LeMond was fairly popular in Europe. He has also won world champiopnships and was a domestique for Hinault during his last tour. Maybe he was a specialist for the TDF but I think he raced more classics than Lance does. There may be some resentment on a small level since he was the first American to have that level of success in Europe. On the other hand, he also brought a lot more money into the sport.
I think Armstong is not as well liked in Europe as Lemond. He just does not treat the press as well as he could. Then again, the press should not write based on their personal opinion of someone. You see that in sports reporting all the time in all sports though.
He did make those comments last year about Dr. Ferrari which I am sure Lance did not appreciate. I assume Trek made him clarify the remarks with that annoying retraction that was on his website for a few months. As for the bellow comment that he is too big to be a bike racer, I think in Armstrongs book, Merckx told him the same thing. They were both right. He was carrying more upperbody weight before the cancer. THat made a big difference in his climbing.
They are both great racers. It is hard to say what they could have accomplished without the illness and injury that took some of their prime years away from them.
Apr 16, 2002 10:41 AM
|My read from following the literature from Lemond's era is that he was well liked by the peloton. Heck, even a rider on another team dedicated a stage win to Lemond, thanking him for reviving his career and emotional support. First person accounts from Fance during the Lemond era reported about how well liked he was by the press and the public. Greg also had some success in the spring classics.|
|re: Lance Armstrong Vs. Greg LeMond||eschelon|
Apr 16, 2002 6:27 AM
|Actually, I read somewhere that Armstrong met Lemond long before his cancer thing...where Lemond went up to Armstrong and told Armstrong that he was too big to be a bicycling champion and this commment really bothered Armstrong alot. In addition, many of you will remember that during last years Tour, Lemond was essentially casting doubt to Armstrong as a clean rider by his continued associated with Ferrari...to the whole frickin' world.|
|re: Lance Armstrong Vs. Greg LeMond||Galibier|
Apr 16, 2002 6:56 AM
|Of course, LeMond was correct on both points: Lance WAS too heavy before cancer (I expect Lance now agrees), and it WAS imprudent for Lance to associate with Ferrari (again, I expect Lance now agrees). LeMond never said he thought Lance was using drugs; instead, he said he was "disappointed" in Lance for associating with Ferrari, or words to that effect. Nevertheless, LeMond's words sounded resentful, and Armstrong isn't the type to tolerate any crap. That, I think, is the source of the friction, if any.
And by the way, my understanding is that LeMond was better liked in Europe than Armstrong is, but then again I don't really know.
|re: Lance Armstrong Vs. Greg LeMond||hinaults dog|
Apr 16, 2002 7:36 AM
|i was on the champs elysee '89
and got the impression that
the french wanted lemond to beat fignon
however i'm not sure whether this was due to lemonds
popularity or a dislike of fignon.
|re: Lance Armstrong Vs. Greg LeMond||StmbtDave|
Apr 16, 2002 8:50 AM
|Saw LeMond in Denver at Wheatridge Cyclery Pro Event and he was still whining about his days as a racer and how he didn't get the respect he deserved. The man came across as a jerk. I haven't had any contact with Armstrong but LeMond doesn't have enough class to be considered a champion.|
|boycott the frogs||ohmk1|
Apr 16, 2002 9:43 AM
|I just want to take this opprotunity to bring up the topic of boycotting the French. Former NY Mayor Ed Koch started this movement.I hate to do it, after all I spent my Honeymoon in France. It's just that the French suck. They are anti anything American.Let's all stop buying those crappy Mavics, and those disgusting Look frames and pedals.|
|and all that crappy French wine and cheese...||mr_spin|
Apr 16, 2002 10:30 AM
Antibes, Chamonix, St. Malo
Oh wait! Those are all good things.
Forget the boycott--let's all go to France!!!
Actually, I could do without the fondue.
|Don't take it personally...||eschelon|
Apr 16, 2002 10:32 AM
|My sister who lives in England says the French hate everyone...and the Parisians hate anybody who isn't Parisian. Damn Frenchies....|
|The French don't like the winners...||TypeOne|
Apr 16, 2002 11:24 AM
|My college buddy spent a year in France and reported to me that the French never like a winner, but they like the person who comes in second.
I responded that this doesn't sound too strange, as most Americans seem to root for the underdog.
My friend said no, they don't root for the underdog, either. They hate a champion, but like the person in second.
They like the second-place finisher? I could pick fun of the French for an explanation, but I don't know what the heck that means. Any ideas?
My thought is that the French disliked Lemond and Armstrong equally, but will warm up Lance as his career declines just like they did with Lemond.
|sounds like any other grande cultural metropolis to me||128|
Apr 16, 2002 11:40 AM
|whether it's Istanbul, pre-colubmian Yucatan or a gathering of ancient sages at the Oracle of MyWay (later made popular by Sinatra, yup, same deal), and the french are particularly..ohhh...je ne sais pas les mots.
I find Paris to the french south like trying to compare NYC (oh, yes 'the city', of course)to upstate...very different, no fair comparison, same in any city/provincial relationship isn't it??
As for LeMonde, my reading suggests he was popular in Europe, primarily as he was instrumental in raising everbodys salaries; a good American-i.e. money hungry- Boy (yes, north america, no not that one! the united states! you know 'the' America!). Who could blame him...look at those tennis salaries and prizes!!
Ok, now let's critically generalize about a "historicaly oppressed" culture (excluding the french before Bastille)and outside europe of course and see how many hypocrites come out of lurking....
|All I know is...||Sintesi|
Apr 16, 2002 11:53 AM
|they put on the greatest race on earth and their people show up in droves to cheer on the winner regardless of nationality. The whole country is enthusiastic. I'd buy a Look on sheer performance and technology alone. Mavics I have. Michelins I've had. All great products.
Why make a sweeping generalization about the French? Boycott!!?? What does Mayor Kock, I mean Koch, know anyway? He led one of the most corrupt administrations NYC has had in the last 40 years and kooky gadfly. Ignore him.
|Parisians hate anybody who isn't Parisian.||guido|
Apr 16, 2002 10:43 PM
|Because they've been there and done that and just get bored with the rantings of the provincials. New Yorkers used to be that way too, probably still are.
My reading on that 89 TDF was the French were very proud of Laurent Fignon, even if he was the somewhat distant and nerdy Parisian. It's the nature of competitive sports, however, to root for the underdog, and LeMond jumped into that role in the final act, displaying incredible grit, the form of a champion, as he had done many times before, while at other times acting like the spoiled American, holding back, lacking passion, or compassion, which Lance Armstrong seem to be overcoming.
As a Parisian might well tell you, the French relationship with LeMond was paradoxical. They love that word, paradox.
If, as Woody Allen once said, the music of George Gershwin perfectly protrays the depth and breadth of New York, then Paris is the city of Francis Poulenc or Jacques Ibert, changeable, fickle, inconsistent, full of surprises, paradoxical, typically French.