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Sizing question(17 posts)

Sizing questionLive Steam
Apr 13, 2002 10:56 AM
I don't recall the rule of thumb for sizing. Is it hub hidden from view when in the drops or on the hoods?

I can't even reach the hoods, so don't ask me!
re: Sizing questionDINOSAUR
Apr 13, 2002 1:11 PM
I've read that it's either way, hoods or drops. Some say this doesn't hold water as it's based on a persons anatomy and your ht angle. A lot of it boils down to preference. But when I'm dialed in and I'm on the hoods, my front hub is obscured by my handlebar. I had to go a a shorter stem to achieve this, although the big problem is my bike is two sizes too large for me in the first place. The rails on your saddle also make a difference also..
Rule 'O Thumb...Geex
Apr 13, 2002 1:57 PM
...Is the front hub is obscured by the bar when the rider is in the drops.... This w/ all the usual disclaimers regarding riders' flexibility, proportions, personal preferences, etc....

* Next question: Who's this
i Thumb
guy that makes up all these rules with innumerable exceptions?
So we have two different answers ... sort of >Live Steam
Apr 13, 2002 2:32 PM
You at least both agree that there are more variables. But, is it hoods or drops? Can anyone site a link with this info? Thanks for your help!
Since it's only general guidanceKerry
Apr 13, 2002 2:54 PM
Perhaps your best bet is that the hub be obscured "when riding in your preferred position." Some ride on the hoods all the time, some in the drops, so this takes care of the variation. Still, there's no point in trying to figure out how to critically interpret a guideline that is only meant to get "most people about right." Move on.
This is a meaningless response >Live Steam
Apr 13, 2002 4:00 PM
People shouldn't ride in the drops all of the time and probably not most of the time either. People shouldn't ride on the hoods all of the time aslo. There is no PREFERED POSITION. If you are a true roadie you should know this. Hoods sometimes, bar tops others and drops when necessary.

I asked a simple question. If you don't have anything meaningful to offer, why respond?
Another "Rule of Thumb"Scot_Gore
Apr 13, 2002 4:38 PM
"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

If your not satisfied with the advice you get, request a full refund from Gregg, I'm sure you'll find him completely sympathetic (or was that just pathetic......I get those mixed up)

With a reply like that, somebody else with knowledge you may find more to your liking is quite likely to remain silent. I know I will.

Scot
No problem Scott. Sounds like you don't have >Live Steam
Apr 13, 2002 5:14 PM
much to offer either. Gregg's "move on" response was uncalled for. It's not like I was taking up much bandwith with my posts.
Thank you so much for your supportKerry
Apr 14, 2002 3:28 PM
So you want a hard and fast interpretation of a rule of thumb, and when you don't get it, you start insulting people. Once again, this is personal preference. "People shouldn't ride in the drops all of the time and probably not most of the time either. People shouldn't ride on the hoods all of the time aslo." Where do you come up with this? People can ride where ever they please if it is comfortable and efficient for them. I guess my 33 years of road riding at 5-9K miles per year doesn't count for anything. I'm sure not a roadie by your definition.
Kerry / Gregg ? Whom ever - I didn't mean any >Live Steam
Apr 14, 2002 5:50 PM
disrespect, however, your "Move on" comment seemed a little harsh and premature. I have a right, as you do, to post information, questions, whatever, even if you don't feel it is a worthy subject. You initially started off with the intent to help then desided it wasn't worth further exploration. Again, sorry for my post, but due to my persistance I did get better help from those willing to offer it.
Regards, Bill

PS I have been hanging around this board for almost 3 years. I have contributed as well as been the recipient of good advice. As for positioning on the bars, there are inappropriate as well as appropriate times to be on the hoods, in the drops and even riding no hands. I know you know this from your extensive experience :o)
Rule 'O Thumb...Geex
Apr 13, 2002 4:43 PM
http://www.kevinlippert.com/bike_fit_202.htm
"A good way to measure correct stem length is after the bikes seat height, fore and aft position and stem height are set with the hands in the drops and a slight bend in the elbow, the handlebars should block the view of the front hub without causing the shoulders to round forward..."

http://www.coloradocyclist.com/bikefit/
"Unfortunately, there is no formula for sizing the top tube and stem that works as well as the inseam method. One indicator comes from glancing down at the front hub while riding in the drops; your view of the the front hub should be obstructed by the handlebar. LeMond recommends that your elbows, bent at 65–70° with your hands in the drops, should be within an inch or two of your knees at the top of your stroke..."

Sorry; my bad. No 'Thumb' mentioned here....
Thanks very much. Just what I was looking for. I did >Live Steam
Apr 13, 2002 5:14 PM
a Google search, but did not get these pages in return. I have two frames I have been riding for the past two seasons. Both are very different from one another. One is a TCR and the other is a Colnago steel. I have been considering a new purchase and was going through my likes and dislikes of each, including how each is sized and fit. I am thinking that I would like a smaller frame with more seat post and a longer stem. I guess I now have to decide how I want to set up a new frame and this was a question I felt I needed answered. Thanks again.
Bill
Why not pay for a fitting >pa rider
Apr 15, 2002 9:47 AM
I'm looking at buying a new ti bike at end of year. My local LBS charged $50 for a fit. The best money I ever spent to see why some bikes fit me better than others.

I need a 72.5 seat angle verses the standard 73 degree. My top tube length is 580 instead of 590 I always get on bikes for my size. This explains why I always like shorter top tube bikes.

I just need to dial in the stem height and I'll have this fit figured out. They messured me on a station fit bike, but I don't trust the numbers for a 5 hour ride.

I'm thinking about getting an ITM adjustable stem to help me. My point to this post is sometimes the expert knowledge is worth paying for if it keeps you biking.

Hope you find what you need for your next bike.
Thanks. I will probably do that. I was just trying >Live Steam
Apr 15, 2002 5:49 PM
to figure out where I may have gone wrong in the past. I know the "rule of thumb" stuff can get thrown out of the window, but on one of my bikes I can see the hub when in the drops and the other it is obstructed by the bars. The strange thing is that on fast agressive rides I feel more comfortable on the one that doesn't fit the ROT. I realize that the two frames are very different - a steel Italian classic design vs an AL compact frame. When I set up each of these bikes I modeled one after the other as far as dimentional setup is concerned. They both have the same reach, saddle height from the BBand saddle position relative to the pedals. However that just don't feel or even set me up the same. Oh well, live and learn. Thanks for your post.
Perhaps this will help...DINOSAUR
Apr 13, 2002 6:13 PM
According to Lennard Zinn

"There is no single formula for determining handlebar reach and height. Using the all-too-common method of placing your elbow against the saddle and seeing if your fingerstips reach the handlebar is close to useless. Similarly, the oft-suggested method of seeing if the handlebar obscures your vision of the front hub is not worth the brief time it takes to look, being dependent on elbow bend and front end geometry."

"The reach from the saddle to the handlebar is also very dependent on personal preference. More aggressive riders will want a more stretched out position than casual riders. This length is subjective and I usually need to look at the rider on the bike and get a feel for how they would be comfortable and efficient."

"A useful starting place is to drop a plumb line from the back of the elbow with your arms bent in a comfortable riding position. This plane determined by your elbows and the plumb line should be 2-4cm horizontally ahead of each knee at the point in the pedal stroke when the crank arm is horizontal ahead of each knee at the point in the pedal stroke is horizontal forward. The idea is to select a position you find comfortable and efficient, listen to what your body wants."

I always note the different riding positions when watching tapes of the pros. Three riders can be side by side. One will have a lot of bend in his elbows and his hands on the hoods, another one be riding with no bend with his hands on the flat portion of the bar, and the third will be all stretched out with his hands on the drops. A lot of it has to do about your own personal anatomy and flexibility.

As I mentioned before, when I got my bike dialed in and I'm on the hoods OR drops, and look down, my bars obscure the hub of my front wheel. But this is also dependent on where I am positioned on my saddle, I might have to jockey around a little bit to achieve this position. I just go with what my back tells me after about three hours in the saddle. I prefer to ride a little stretched out as I found it's less jarring when my spine is extended, especially when I am descending on rough roads. I also found it helped to tilt my bars forward a tad, so when I'm on the hoods my weight is more evenly distributed and it's less jarring for me.

I found the two most important settings on my bike are KNOP and stem length. And I had to do a lot of experimenting with both until I found that magic spot. I cringe when I think about dialing in the new Colnago MXL. My Klein fits me so well I hate to start over again (well, sort of).

I guess the answer is, there is no common rule of the thumb for determining reach, too many factors involved.

Dino
Thanks for your time Dino! After 6+ years of what I >Live Steam
Apr 14, 2002 8:02 AM
consider serious road riding, I am only now re-thinking my positioning. That is not to say that I haven't tinkered with stem lengths, saddle position and everything else under the Sun. It is that, now in my 40s, I see that my body does not adapt as well to make a fair fit feel much better than it really is. I too am contemplating a new ride and would obviously like the basis - read frame size - to be as near perfect a fit as is possible. I would like something off the shelf, but it may come to a custom frame by Pegoretti or Steelman as my preference is steel for long rides. Thanks again, Bill
Your welcome! nmDINOSAUR
Apr 14, 2002 8:44 AM
nm