|what did you ogle at before the colorado cyclist chick?||Spirito|
Apr 9, 2002 3:27 AM
|i know i spent more time looking at the cover of my bike repair manual than reading whatever was written inside it. and in case you need me to point out it was the figure leaning on the bike to the left of the page that attracted my interest. at least this image has details of interest to all sexes and age groups unlike the cc catalogue which assumes that all cyclists are only into women and could be construed as sexist.
i wonder if excel sports could contact the artist and have him/her comissioned to do their catalogue completely in that style. they would be collector's items one day and im sure a catalogue war would ensue much to our amusement. it could eventually resemble the little mexican illustrated soft porn comics ( i wonder why they are so small)? any ideas?
as i cyclist i was studying the woman's proportions and figure a custom frame for her would have a seat tube of about 62cm c-c and a top tube of 52cm c-c. is that possible?
art for arts sake!
|re: what did you ogle at before the colorado cyclist chick?||Spoke Wrench|
Apr 9, 2002 4:52 AM
|I could never figure out why so many people don't bicycle. Fit fun loving women wearing stretch lycra. I love bicycling!|
|our opinions are being read....||RayBan|
Apr 9, 2002 5:08 AM
|As soon as I saw the latest issue of the Colorado Cyclist catalog I thought of all the comments we have been making about the beautiful biker chick in their catalog. So how do you think they decided to put her on the cover of the latest? I bet it's from browsing boards like this one.
So we do make a difference, and influence the market etc.
This was a good example of that.
|Do you think we can influence bike manufacturers||Spoke Wrench|
Apr 9, 2002 5:22 AM
|to stop putting cheapo rim strips on road bikes?|
|I thought the same thing....||dzrider|
Apr 9, 2002 5:26 AM
|Decided it's fine with me and I hope Excel, Nashbar, and Performance decide to compete.|
|if thats true then how come......||Spirito|
Apr 9, 2002 5:35 AM
|my local bike store doesnt have lap dancers and a bar.
im sure if it did they could turn the tide against the mail-order dominance.imagine whilst waiting for your wheels to be trued you could get a .........
|re: our opinions are being read....||Becky|
Apr 9, 2002 7:01 AM
|I know that Colorado Cyclist has certainly influenced this (female) cyclist. I'm not making any more purchases from them until they tone down the photos. Using models to sell your merchandise is one thing and everyone does it, but CC is pushing the limits on what is tasteful.|
Apr 9, 2002 7:28 AM
|I'm not sure what exactly is offensive here. Perhaps it is that she is a good looking lady who has a nice body?
I ride with a number of women and they wear form fitting shorts like everyone else, including me. Bike shorts are made that way! On the top end, sometimes they wear jerseys, sometimes they wear tank tops, sometimes they wear just sports bras. Oo la la, it's no big deal.
To me, as far as what she is wearing, this photo is not the exception. It represents reality.
How should she be dressed?
What are the respectable ladies wearing these days?
Apr 9, 2002 7:37 AM
|I take no offense at her outfits (but I would prefer to see less of her breasts). What bothers me is the somewhat suggestive nature of the poses. (And perhaps the endless discussion of this woman and her body on the RBR dicussion boards- this is a family show afterall.) I'll get off my soapbox now- I just needed to share my opinion (and perhaps that of other female cyclists).|
Apr 9, 2002 7:55 AM
|I suspect the issue is more about male response than the photos themselves. They show much less of her breasts and are nowhere near as suggestive as ads directed towards women in Glamour or Cosmo, but I haven't heard any guys raving about models in those magazines and haven't heard any women complaining about them. For whatever reason, some of us like looking at and talking about women's bodies and advertisers use that as a hook to get us to look at their product. Now, what kind of bike is she pushing? Whose clothing and helmet is she wearing?|
Apr 9, 2002 1:36 PM
|Any of you guys out there going to go out and buy a sports bra after seeing the cover? I know that my wife didn't see the cover and say "Hey...what a great product! Think I will buy some of that product! " |
The cover grabs the guys by "trying to sell" the women's clothing.
It's a bit obvious. I would hope that people in advertising would have a little more respect for the sensibliites of people that to treat us like sex-starved maniacs that need to combine sex into everything that we do in our lives.
...steps down from soap-box as the crowd mummers....
|remember, she's a model...||up_hiller|
Apr 9, 2002 11:11 AM
|This is her profession. The more photos that are published showing her looking her best, the better for her. Her job in the ads she does is to attract as much attention to them as possible. She's obviously doing a pretty good job and might get more opportunities for work as a reasult.|
|tone down or top down?||Kristin|
Apr 9, 2002 7:46 AM
|Have you ever ridden with a woman wearing a tiny little tank top like that? That thing isn't even a sports bra. If she rode in that for real, she'd be more out than in. I figure it this way. The company knows they are selling sex--someone made a specific choice to do so. She is obviously wearing something that could not function well as cycling appearal. Hopefully CC has done a demographics study and determined that their cover will produce enough additional sales to compensate for the female market that they are losing. Surely they expect to lose a good share of their female market because of this. I have a feeling the percentage is small enough that they don't care.
On a personal level, I could not sell sex and sleep. This is why I have not choosen a career in marketing or sales. The people at Colorado Cyclist appearantly do not possess the same moral standards that I do. Their choice. I would choose to not purchase from them based on this. Not only because I'm offended at a woman, but because I'm offended as a Christian. My choice, and again, I assume they don't really care.
|don't know about that...those sports bras work OK||ColnagoFE|
Apr 9, 2002 7:50 AM
|My wife is pretty well endowed and wears sports bras to teach kick boxing and Spinning and such with no problems. I don't know about that particular model that the CC woman is wearing, but if they are made well they keep you in pretty well.|
Apr 9, 2002 8:10 AM
|Obviously sports bras work. I own several myself. But that stringy thingy she's wearing--if you think that's a sports bra, you're fooling yourself! C/D cup = shoulder sraps at least 1 inch wide. I agree, she looks sexy, but I doubt she'd wear that ensemble to ride in. I don't see any hint of padding in those shorts either. Ouch!|
|you win...I'll defer to someone that actually wears 'em! :) (nm||ColnagoFE|
Apr 9, 2002 12:49 PM
Apr 9, 2002 7:50 AM
Thank you for also sharing your opinion. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only woman cyclist who has an opinion on this subject.
Apr 9, 2002 8:05 AM
|First of all, I can see your point. Second, I haven't received my catalog yet, so all I have to go on is the small picture on the website. From that picture, the top doesn't seem small to me. I have certainly ridden with women who wore less, and it was no big deal.
Maybe it's different out here in California. We get a lot more sun, we dress down a lot, and we don't have that midwestern sensibility!
Apr 9, 2002 8:14 AM
|Wear the women you've rode with who wore less been so well endowed? Of course, if its all sythetic materials (not talking about fabric content here) then perhaps things stay in place no matter what you wear. Anyway. I digress, this is a silly subject.|
|tone down or top down?||sievers11|
Apr 9, 2002 9:31 PM
|You had to play the Christian card.
Don't insult some one about something you know nothing about, and insult the advertising industry of being a cesspool of compromised morals.
#11, thou shall not use effective advertising.
You can use the cop out that CC are "selling sex" and degrading women, but that is crap. They are selling biking clothing, parts and accessories to men AND WOMEN. Not pimps or porn kings...these people use and degrade women, not any respecting advertisers would do that. Sure there are your bad apples, but there are a lot of "Christians" out there who are not either.
I work in the advertising industry and we (the ad world) have done studies of how women react to advertising and catalogs. This is how the mind of most women work when they look at products marketed to them, specifically clothing. They pick up the catalog because of the attractive model on the cover or the striking cover design, ie colors, then it starts, "she's ugly, she's ugly, oh she has a nice hair cut, what is she wearing, nice. Oh, no look how that shows off her hips, I could never pull that off, she's ugly, she's ugly, oh that top look attractive."
If you use the idea that they are selling a lifestyle, they are going to look for a fit, attractive model to sell their products and for models you need everything done to the extreme. This women is extremely fit and works out a lot. I respect the fact that she is in amazing shape and has great muscle definition. She is only completely out of place because her build is not that of a biker, more of a fitness training physic. More of a "muscle and fitness" cover girl. I would have used a women with slightly larger legs and slimmer shoulders, she does have nice shoulders, but I think most women are turned off by muscles. Muscles are generally a more masculine trait.
This is a very mild cover, attractive girl in smart cycling clothing. This picture says to men, hey you are not as dorky as you think you are, cool people ride too. But this cover is not directed towards men and this is where your logic of "selling sex" is faulted. Your argument of "selling sex" is only a byproduct of selling to women. This is not the advertising definition of "selling sex", not even close.
"Selling sex" is advertising women to men or vise versa. A prime example is putting women in loose fitting men's shirts in a men's catalog. Or putting a NASCAR shirt on a playboy model and selling car racing to men, or maybe beer and the Swedish bikini team.
Do you see any well respected women models selling beer, no. And this is incredibly insulting to lump those models into the same category.
For Colorado Cyclist this should dramatically improve their sales to women. If advertising and modeling has shown us anything it is than women want to look feminine and attractive in the "correct" clothing. How many women out there really want to look like all of the guys, none. This cover was designed to say the following things. (the attractive female model is only a tool to get women to pay attention)
"There are other colors then black for biking shorts."
"There is such thing a a coordinated helmet/outfit." "Look, I don't have to have a dorky team jersey, they do make up-to-date stylish tanks for women."
"that is a great looking outfit, if my husband is going to go out ad make me ride I wonder what other clothing they have so I don't have to look like a boy out there."
How many times are there women on the cover of men's magazines, my guess is less then 5%. And this 5% is the flesh mags or occasional suit edition.
If you are selling to women you need to have attractive women on covers and in your clothing. Women define for men what is attractive and men tell women was is attractive. This is basic human nature. If you sell women's closing you have attractive models, because ugly people reflect poorly on your product.
And most women are freakishly caught up in looks, in
|this is the rest of my rant||sievers11|
Apr 9, 2002 9:34 PM
|And most women are freakishly caught up in looks, incredibly more then men. You can put a fat man in men's advertising, because men don't care. Women do, you can absolutely never, never ever put poor looking people in advertising directed towards women, because women are caught up in appearances.
Do men hide their appearances behind makeup, no.
Do men have shoes that highlight their ankles, no.
Do men have shoes that make them taller and make their ass more perky, no who cares.
Do men cover their bodies in reflective jewelry to misdirect their looks, no.
If you are a women and this pisses you off then, don't cry to the advertisers, cry to our culture. I feel bad that we teach girls to wear make up and like pink, try teaching compassion and self esteem. These are universal truths, not solely Christian domain.
Buy your daughters a bike, be humble and respect others of what ever religion they chose. Seek truth, don't follow.
There is one clear truth, love.
Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism can be debated, Love can not.
Apr 10, 2002 6:24 AM
|Please tell me sir, how long you've been a Christian and what has been you're training in that field??? I'd really like to see those credentials since you feel yourself qualified to assess that I know nothing about Christianity. You shouldn't launch such an offensive attack without first establishing yourself an expert on the subject.
Secondly, I think this ENTIRE thread flies in the face of your statement: "This is a very mild cover, attractive girl in smart cycling clothing. This picture says to men, hey you are not as dorky as you think you are, cool people ride too. But this cover is not directed towards men and this is where your logic of "selling sex" is faulted."
NEWSFLASH!!!! I realize that a man will go to ANY length to justify his sex drive; so I decided to do an objective field study of my own. I called Colorado Cyclist to order those very shorts and that "sports" top. Well, guess what? Those aren't available. The good people at CC don't have any clue WHAT SHE'S WEARING. So I ask you now, what are they selling on their cover? Certainly they are not selling the clothes.
So please, before you attack my Christianity again, make sure YOU know what YOU are talking about. And I know exactly why I didn't go into marketing, thank you. I seriously considered it at one time as all the assessments indicated that I could be very successful in that field.
Signed: Adequately offended and not sure why because this is a stupid cycling forum.
Apr 10, 2002 6:47 AM
|They don't even sell the clothes on the cover model? That's hilarious! Pretty much ends the discussion, too.|
Apr 10, 2002 3:15 PM
|I am not a christian, and never claimed to be. I am very spiritual and at the heart of my belief is that religion is personal and your god is personal. I was brought up methodist and after studing the writings of Paul, I simply can not go to church and have religion spoon fed. The bible is a great spiritual tool, and guide, probably the best out there, but I belive in my god, not a group of peoples interpretation of what I should think.
I don't want mean to insult your belief's if you have found a group that is spiritually in tune with what you believe, then you are lucky. I have not.
I agree after your research, that the cover is tainted. I have worked in womens fashion before and I have been blamed for having good looking people in my ads. Belive me when I say it is nessesary in order to play the game.
I am also sorry that I stuck a hot poker in a already enflamed discussion. The web does that somtimes, I am really good a typing out of emotion and not common sense.
I would like to leave you with one point, there is not need to question or be ashamed of sex drive. I would hope you agree that sex is healthy. Fooling around and health sex are very different. Love is very different, although, respect, compassion and intimacy are at the root.
Please don't fault the bike fourm for inflamed conversations, it is amazing than in this day and age we can have completly wide open discussions like this. If you get mad get mad at me, not the fourm.
|wait a sec.............||Jekyll|
Apr 9, 2002 8:52 AM
|My girlfriend thought that the guy with the 6 o'clock shadow in the garish road dog jersey was pretty hot. I'm never buying from Colorado Cyclist again! I'm offended! How dare they put good looking guys in tight clothing and try to pass that off as cycling ware advertising!
This is absurd. For every picture of the "cycling chick" in the CC catalog there is an equaly "sexist" picture of the Bay Watch life guard turned cyclist with his shitty unshaven grin.
Why aren't we offended! A clarion call to CC - Put fat, ugly, out of shape men and women either gorging themselves at McDonald's or puking the "meal" after their first hill in cycling clothing. That will help me concentrate on the clothing they are wearing and not offend my "christian" sensibilities!
|wait a sec.............||Rode Warrior|
Apr 9, 2002 10:19 AM
|"For every picture of the "cycling chick" in the CC catalog there is an equaly "sexist" picture of the Bay Watch life guard turned cyclist with his shitty unshaven grin."
In this catalog, this may be the case, but in real life it isn't. Women are constantly judged more harshly on their appearance then men are and that's a sad fact. A beautiful woman in tight clothes on the cover of a catalog will spark interest in the catalog and therefore increase sales, or at least name recognition, and that's another sad fact. My point is this, women are constantly being compared to the barbie doll image, while men are not judged nearly as harshly. These women do have a very valid point, and I hope that CC will refrain from using sexist covers in the future.
|I'd still like to see a picture of a hot guy in CC||Kristin|
Apr 9, 2002 10:22 AM
|I looked. Then I went back and looked again. Nope. No hot guys here. Obviously Jeykll's girlfriend and I have different tastes. This is probably good for him! Okay, sorry, belt shot. I apologize. Just couldn't resist.|
Apr 9, 2002 12:42 PM
|Is that even true or just a PC truism?
If I say it enough times it will "true". If I keep repeating it beyond that it will infect the popular vernacular and coerce language into a vision of my politically correct subversion. Both sexes objectify. I know, its all about power, yada, yada, yada. Its like a broken record - look at me - I'm a victim - I don't look like the woman in the CC catalog - what oh what will they guys at the next group ride think of me! Those who's self worth is determined by images of others deserve what ever inferiority complex they have.
Here, have CC put a buff guy on the cover (like they usually do) and no one will scream any further hackneyed PC slogans. It will no longer be sexist because placing a archetype of a fit, healthy and sexually vibrant male on the cover does not objectify men. Why, well its a man after all - who cares?
Just like the car load of black guys that passed me on my ride yesterday and called me a "stupid f@ggot cracker" was not racism. I'm white after all......
|attention all you dirndl skirts............||Starliner|
Apr 9, 2002 1:36 PM
|some time ago I decided to not allow others to supress my feelings about things such as this... after all, isn't the basic knock on men is that we are not in touch with our feelings... and consider that, of the two sexes, only the male gender must be aroused in order for natural procreation to occur.... arousal being a cornerstone of male sexuality is too often misunderstood and/or negatively judged by society.... supression of this part of our sexuality manifests itself in negative ways - impotence, sexual agression, violence....
by admiring the CC model, I am honoring myself as a man. If you don't like it, or if you think by doing so is sexist and disrespectful to other women, then deal with it.
|Would it be OK if it was a buff guy?||IAM|
Apr 9, 2002 11:12 AM
|re: our opinions are being read....||heloise|
Apr 9, 2002 11:23 AM
|I agree. The cool thing about capitalism is we get to "vote" with our money. Whenever ANY company, bike related or not, starts marketing ONLY to men, I shop elsewhere. I take it as a big sign that my "female" money is not green enough for them. Want MY money? Work on making ME happy.|
|Guess you better learn to make your own stuff. . .||Galibier|
Apr 9, 2002 1:04 PM
|. . . if you aren't going to purchase products from enterprises which exploit attractive female models.|
|discussion is getting unhealthy...||tz|
Apr 9, 2002 1:59 PM
|I don't understand how this catalogue cover can offend anyone. It is not different from any others, yet it stirred so much passion.
If you have just realized that companies are "selling sex", then, you've probably been living in a different counrty [Iran?]. Wake up and smell the roses! Sex is the driving force behind way too many of our actions. This does not only apply to men. Victoria's Secret catalogues must give you indigestion...
I think that some people on this board read too much religious literature. As a cure, I'd recommend Bertrand Russell...
|yeah we should all be proud of being sexist pigs (nm)||ColnagoFE|
Apr 9, 2002 7:41 AM
Apr 9, 2002 5:46 AM
|Not that I didn't take a gander at the gal on the cover of the new Colorado Cyclist catalog myself; but it shows that sex will be used to pedal just about anything. I guess it beats looking at one of those Douglas frames they are trying hard to push. I noticed also that prices have shot up slightly on frames and component groups, or was the cover a big distraction?|
|Why don't more girls wear white gogo boots and hot pants. . .||Sintesi|
Apr 9, 2002 5:55 AM
|while cycling? Me? I like to take off my shirt, baring my brown sinewy back muscles when working on the bike. Ahh the sexy promiscuous seventies. Cycling repair can help you get laid. That innocent bicycle repair manual you got there buddy helped cause AIDS. Hope you're proud, real proud.|
|That's quite a stretch, don't you think?||MisJG|
Apr 9, 2002 8:58 AM
|Blaming a cycling repair manual for helping to cause AIDS? I don't recall seeing this manual at all in HBO's "And the Band Played On". Let's not be ridiculous. Then again, look at this whole thread. . .|
|I am being ridiculous.||Sintesi|
Apr 9, 2002 10:57 AM
|It's a joke. HA HA?|
|re: what did you ogle at before the colorado cyclist chick?||raboboy|
Apr 9, 2002 6:03 AM
|My wife... in her ONCE Team outfit! ;)|
Apr 9, 2002 6:05 AM
|care to share some pics?
Apr 9, 2002 6:53 AM
|hmmmm... I do have a roll of film I need to finish up... ;)|
|I can actually remember one if not my first ogle experience..||Lone Gunman|
Apr 9, 2002 6:30 AM
|possibly around 1972 as a youngster just getting into lightweight multi geared bikes, I had a copy of I think "Bicycling" magazine and there was an ad for a Belgian made bike, could have been a Merkyx (sp?) and the ad had some long legged blond honey in short shorts and a tank top with large protruding breasts. The image is burnt into my mammory er memory. Hey I do remember the bike was orange.
So in short the idea of sex pedaling anything is not a new concept, were talkin 30 years here.
|Isn't it "Merksex"? nm||muncher|
Apr 9, 2002 6:34 AM
|Truth in advertising....||tazdag|
Apr 9, 2002 10:50 AM
|Anyone remember the Assos ads a number of years ago that featured a shapely blonde, naked on a bike, viewed from the rear, with the Assos logo tatooed on her, well, "assos"?
Here's another bike ad marketed to the virile bike rider. Not sure how well those shoes would work, but could be good weapons in a sprint!
|BRAVO!!!! Double yummer pic!!!! nm||Troyboy|
Apr 9, 2002 11:01 AM
|Hey! I was in that bike shop in Paris||PaulCL|
Apr 9, 2002 11:15 AM
|Cycles Laurent. Trust me. There was NO ONE in that shop that good looking. Only some grunging, grease covered kid.|
|How's this for truth?||PseuZQ|
Apr 9, 2002 1:08 PM
|Anyone recall seeing the ad for Fi'zik saddles, in one of the euro mags, captioned "Enjoy yourself off the bike." The photo was of a guy's feet in cycling shoes, about 12" apart, with his bibs around his ankles....|
Apr 9, 2002 8:36 AM
|I've got to chip in my two cents. Let's face it sex sells. This model has been in the catalog before and yes, she is beautiful and built. Who the #$#% cares? I would however, like to believe that CC chose her not just for her looks but because she is a cyclist too. Would you rather see some butt ugly concave chested woman on the cover dressed head to toe in black? (yes, i'm exaggerating here but do you get the idea? Go ahead flame away while I reload) I can't believe some of you think this outfit is too revealing. Gimme a break! There is more revealing stuff to look at when you're standing in line at the freakin grocery store. Ever see a Cosmo?? When was the last time you wrote to them and complained? Frankly I don't give a rat's ass about the guys in the catalog and never looked at how they're dressed or not dressed but ladies you can't tell me that you don't appreciate a handsome well built guy. For chrissakes, I pass on my old Procycling and CycleSport magazines to a female co-worker because she likes the guys in lycra. She particularly likes Daniel DeLuca. Are you going to condemn her too? Men and women are DIFFERENT!!!!!! Guys like to look, women appear to be less "visual." I don't see that changing. We don't all know each other intimately but I'm surprised at the level of puritanism here, and I'm from the Midwest! People are just too easily offended.
Jeez. It's about time we had some attractive models in these catalogs!
Apr 9, 2002 8:58 AM
Apr 9, 2002 11:07 AM
|I hate to be the one to break this to you guys, but women ARE visual. If the woman in your life tells you she is not, that just means she's not visually stimulated by YOU. Chances are good there are more than a few hotties out there that get her juices flowing.
Something for y'all to think about.
Now go shave those legs...
Apr 9, 2002 1:05 PM
|Great someone finally admits it! |
Guys are judged on their looks too. It may be more harsh for a woman, but it's still big part when your a guy. Who doesn't get different looks wearing street clothes in winter compared to being on their bike in spandex after 3 months of tanning? On top of it we have to make money, and actually be interesting!
Apr 9, 2002 1:36 PM
|right. i guess that's why there are SO many women's magazines with naked guys in them and only what...one men's magazine with explicit photos of women? I guess that's why the women where I work keeping having to take their cheesecake calendars down when us guys complain. I guess that's why women are always renting those disgusting porn movies.
men and women are different. get over it. i hate this politically correct BS.
Apr 9, 2002 7:11 PM
|Personally I like ogling the guy models in the Excel catalog; who are pretty much without exception chosen from their Pro/1/2 squad. Not only is Excel local and a sponsor, but I actually know and get to ride behind some of the male models... yummm! They aren't as skinny and goofy-looking in person, lemme tell ya.|
|CCC Chick - there is a GOD||zooog|
Apr 9, 2002 8:40 AM
|Lets face it..she is beautiful and has a great..no fantastic...no superb... no awesome body. whether she can ride or not is not what she is paid to do. I bet she can ride fine in that sports bra. I for one hope they put out a calendar of her...HINT CC|
|"They're real.... and they're spectacular" signed, Jackie Chaus||Lone Gunman|
Apr 9, 2002 9:17 AM
|re: what did you ogle at before the colorado cyclist chick?||MP|
Apr 9, 2002 4:51 PM
|I'm impressed with all women that are serious road bike riders. Cover or no cover of a catalog, they're all great.|| |