|Is 3.2lbs heavy for a......||DannyBoy|
Mar 22, 2002 8:56 PM
|I'm really really sorry to be beating this Serotta thing to death.
Serrota mailed me today and they told me a small Concours in ti would come in at about 3.2lbs as a bare frame, the Legend a few ounces under. Isn't that a little heavy for Ti? It sounds awfully close to the weight of my steel Columbus Nivacrom frameset (sure that was c 1,550g unpainted). I assumed it'd be about 2.3-2.5 lbs for something small?
I know weight really isn't everything, and Serotta's fan club really highly rate their ride, but I've already got a great 18lbs steel/chorus bike that rides well, and am looking to get something that little bit more special, starting with the frame.......
Jeez, one day I'll actually make that purchase! I'm now begining to think Carl Strong might be able to do better??
|sound about right||gtx|
Mar 22, 2002 9:20 PM
|also sounds like Serotta is being honest. That is arguably one of the best ti frames available. Sure, you could find something lighter, but probably at some kind of price (either $$$ or sketchy quality or both). I don't think a few ounces should be an issue. But it doesn't really sound like you know what you want. Why were you leaning toward Serotta in the first place? What's wrong with your 18lbs steel/chorus bike? For me, the best race bike is a bike that fits and inspires a lot of confidence. I don't think weight (especially a few ounces) is a huge issue. I prefer a bike that feels rock solid on those fast, technical descents, where you are trying to recover and keep up (or away) at the the same time. That's the only time in racing when I am really aware of my bike. I also think you are nuts to consider racing such a pricey bike--unless you literally have money to burn. If you want a light, stiff race bike, have you considered the Titus Drop-U? You could probably build it up at 16 pounds or so for the price of that Serotta frame alone (the frame retails for $800 and is 2.4 pounds for the 54).
Just in terms of weight, a Steelman or IF steel frame should weigh about the same as the Concours--and that includes paint! Anyway, good luck with your decision.
|honestly, I don't work for Titus||gtx|
Mar 22, 2002 9:53 PM
|don't own one, either, but these guys have quite a rep with mtbers. Just read this about their latest ti road frame shown off at Sea Otter:
ok, enough web surfing for one night ;)
|Or.... you could just lose a pound? (nm)||Allen az|
Mar 22, 2002 11:37 PM
|re: Is 3.2lbs heavy for a......||grandemamou|
Mar 23, 2002 5:03 AM
|That's probably about right. Unless you spend big bucks on Ti I doubt you will come in much lighter. I have never ridden a Serotta but know he has an excellent reputation and has a rabid following. Never heard of Titus may be a great frame I don't know.
If you want light weight IMO you should probably go AL or CF. I know I'll get flamed but, with the weights of some of the newer steel tubesets the only advantage of Ti is the ride quality and the potential of greater durability. Steel can match Ti in the weight category in all but the highest priced Ti frames.
But then again if you want to go stupid light you could probably get a steel frame to match even the lightest Ti frame.
|Does it matter?||k|
Mar 23, 2002 6:34 AM
|The bike industry has conditioned us that it does. Do you have 4% body fat racing up Alpes D'Huez in the Tour this summer? Have you demo'd the bike? If not, the ride will inspire you to buy it. Your're right, if you are trying to win the weight war, you are wasting your time and money. Give or take a few ounces, comparable to other builders. Who cares? People are so hung up on frame weight. I'll take a 4 pound Colorado III over low end ti or 2.5lb aluminum or carbon frame anyday. One half pound is probably what % of the overall weight between you and the bike? I tend to scrutinize wheel weight more, that's about it. Manufacturers love to compare weight, Serotta knows better. |
Once you ride this bike, you will forget about a few ounces. Build it, and be the bike Danny.
|whats so great about serotta||ishmael|
Mar 23, 2002 8:46 AM
|its still just a bike..if its aligned right, and is stiff and doesnt brake and looks nice what more could you ask...i think i could find those qualities alot cheaper...my feeling is that serotta is over-rated and so is colnago...ive had a couple of steel bikes, a trek carbon, and a starship aluminum and they were all fine and nice in their own way...look for a good warranty, make sure its well built, and make sure its the right size before you commit|
|ok, I'll bite.||k|
Mar 23, 2002 3:08 PM
|"look for a good warranty, make sure its well built, and make sure its the right size before you commit" |
What earth shattering advice you have, basic common sense. Also kudos, you've saved alot of money to be satisfied. I've owned all kinds of brands, including the OCLV. They are fine in their own right, no disagrement. You and I are different people so it would be logical to have different tastes, otherwise the world would be very boring. To me it's more than having a good warranty, stiff, durable, and straight-besides maybe my dick. I would be happy to hear your owner experiences regarding the level of service and performance you've had with Serotta and Colnago (I've never had a Colnago, so enlighten me).
My point was, focus on ride quality, not weight. Yeah, if your looking to buy a Serotta and the driving factor is to save weight over the other bike (I'm sure it's nice) then it is a waste of money. No, it doesn't make me a better rider either but I love riding my bike beyond anything I've had. The weight is not why it costs what it does.
|what the hell is ride quality||ishmael|
Mar 23, 2002 3:37 PM
|every bike ive had rides differently but i wouldnt say there is a heiarchy of bike quality...what are the different aspects of this quality....id think that fit,material, and geometry would affect how a bike feels more than anything else, and these are all personal preferances...
as far as what you agree is basic common sense- warranty, built well, and good fit, i think alot of people dont look at these when they buy bikes with hyped names such as colnago...colnago's warranty sucks, why do people pay so much for so little...not that they dont make great bikes but those prices are way too much compared to the rest of the market, its like the louis veton (sp) of bicycles...and i hate louis veton stuff...
|You would have to experience it to know.||k|
Mar 23, 2002 9:08 PM
|Ride quality is an experience, it's how it feels and how it makes you feel when you ride. If I had to put it in words, I'd have an essay. Your questions are valid, I'm very skeptical myself. For the cash, you better believe I weighed the decision and did alot of research. Louis veton is far from my mo, I mean that stuff to me is bullshit too. I'm talking about something you can spend thousands of hours on. I used to think that (fit considering) that weight and material where all that mattered. What's the difference they're all ti or steel, why pay more for one versus the other? So, when I looked further, road, etc. I found out why. Serotta and other companies like Seven go beyond the basics. The bike was not only made to fit my dimensions but my riding style after a two hour session. It rails through corners and inspires confidence unlike anything I've had before yet doesn't feel squirly on 50mph decents. It feels stiff but has a tad amount of give without making me feel like I've lost pedaling power. Dances on climbs. On a side note, the craftsmanship is expceptional and I love looking at it almost as much as I like riding it. The other bikes collected dust and I sold them. On the Colnagos, never owned one and see many who ride them. It could be the Italian heritage thing, the ride, name recognition, big time pro bike- I don't know what the hook is.|
|re: Is 3.2lbs heavy for a......||jc66502|
Mar 23, 2002 10:54 AM
|Ti Serottas, and Serottas in general, have never been known for being particularly light. In fact, just the opposite. They've always been a but ... rotund. Not that that's a bad thing, mind you. It's my feeling most people are far too hung up on weight, especially frame weight.
I think Hank (or, gtx -- what's up with that name anyway?) is right: you don't seem to know what you want. If it were me, I'd be pretty sure I wanted a ti Serotta before dropping large coin on one.
I've ridden both a Concours and a Legend (and my current road ride is an old tig welded Serotta steel frame with an IF steel fork). I recently sold a Serotta mtn frame in favor of a Steelman. I've ridden every Serotta model excluding those introduced within the last 2 years (I got out of the bike shop employment vortex after I finished grad school in Dec '99).
Both are fine ti frames. The differences between them are very small and not noticeable (to me, anyway)while riding. The weights you quoted seem accurate if memory serves. Not spectacularly light; but certainly not heavy. Both rode like a Serotta, which is to say very neutral and very stable.
I'd venture to say that if you opted for either frame you'd be very satisfied. Both are as good as anyone needs and will probably last until the next century (barring a crash).
It's my opinion that Serotta's are solid frames that are sold as much on image and prestige as performance. I saw quite a few sold to well-heeled 40-and-50-somethings who wanted what they perceived to be the best because they could afford the best. I don't mean this as a slight to Serotta or those who ride them, it is merely my observations of those who bought and rode them.
Sorry for the long discourse, the point of which was this: Serotta are very nice but not that light, there's not much difference functionally between the two you are considering, and either would likely make you happy.
Have a nice day. Oh, and get a Steelman SR (for about 3k, the price of the Legend frame, you could get a Record equipped Steelman about the same weight [if not lighter]and much cooler than a stuffy Serotta ;) )
|re: Is 3.2lbs heavy for a......||gtx|
Mar 23, 2002 11:16 AM
|agree about the Steelman...
yeah, I used to post under Hank on this site (still do at mtbr.com) but then stayed away for a while after they started forcing people to register. By the time I got sucked back in Hank was already taken. I actually ended up registering under gtx so I could post an audio question over at CarReview. A GTX is/was a mucle car built by Plymouth starting in 1967. This is a pic of Richard Petty's winning '67 GTX.
|re: Is 3.2lbs heavy for a......||jc66502|
Mar 23, 2002 12:15 PM
|Same thing happened to me ... went away for awhile and when I came back registering was mandatory. Every variation of my name (and handles I had used) was already taken. So, by default I opted to use my email prefix as determined by the wonderful titan AOL. Over on MTBR I go by JCC.|
|Had a carbon frame...||agilis ti|
Mar 23, 2002 2:56 PM
|was less than three lbs. Now i have a ti frame 3.1 lbs. Noticable weight difference when i am suffering up a climb 0.|
|Beware of Ti frames lighter than 3.2 lbs||Nessism|
Mar 23, 2002 4:07 PM
|In my mind, 3.2 lbs. is the minimum weight of a Ti frame a medium agressive rider should be on - medium frame size that is. Lighter than this and you can expect quite a bit of flex unless some special 1.5"+ downtube is used.
I rode a Eddy Merckx EX Ti frame for several years that weighed 3.4 lbs for my 54 cm size. This frame had a nice ballance of ride to stiffness but I wouldn't call it stiff per say - I weigh 165 lbs. My current 3.75 lbs lugged steel frame is a fair bit stiffer through the bottom bracket.
IMO, too many people are buying frames based on how much they weigh. I say, get a frame that has the ride characteristics you are looking for first. Weight should be a secondary consideration.
Mar 23, 2002 9:34 PM
|thanks for your comments, they're all very constructive and I'll take note. I'm well aware that weight isn't anything, especially when you consider total lbs of bike and rider, mind you I guess I wanted that pose factor too.
I'm going in to see Mr Serotta tomorrow and may well go forward as I'm narrowing the field now, however I'll see what Carl Strong says and also take a look at Steelman (website?).
I'll probably go for the Concours, but we'll see. Once again, all very constructive.