RoadBikeReview.com's Forum Archives - General


Archive Home >> General(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 )


Your top 5?(48 posts)

Your top 5?grandemamou
Mar 21, 2002 6:15 AM
All this talk about Indurain and Merckx got me thinking. Who are your top 5 riders of all time. Mine:

1.Merckx (nuff said)

2.Coppi (first to win both Giro and TDF in same year he did it twice)

3.Hinault ( a complete animal: the video of him fighting back after he crashed and broke his nose in 85 TDF?is classic)

4.Anquetil ( 5 time Tour winner)

5. Bartali/Gimondi/Binda/Indurain (tough call)

Here is a cool website to poke around in
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/veloarchive/riders/top12.htm
My Top 5....Pedal Jockey
Mar 21, 2002 6:30 AM
1. Merckx
2. Hinault
3. Indurain
4. Kelly
5. Moser

PJ

Note, until Armstrong decides other races are worth competing in other than the TdF, he will never make my top 10 list, even if he wins 6 in a row.
My Top 5....TJeanloz
Mar 21, 2002 6:58 AM
"Note, until Armstrong decides other races are worth competing in other than the TdF, he will never make my top 10 list, even if he wins 6 in a row."

Then how do you explain having Indurain on the list? His two Giro wins weren't much more than warm-ups for the Tour.
That's easy...Pedal Jockey
Mar 21, 2002 7:08 AM
Indurain's Palmares:

Other significant victories: Olympic Time Trial Champion (open) 1996.
1988 Tour of Catalonia
1989 Paris - Nice
Criterium International
1 stage, Tour de France
1990 Clasica San Sebastian
Paris - Nice
1 stage, Tour de France
1991 Tour de France
2 stages, Tour de France
Tour of Catalonia
1992 Tour de France
3 stages, Tour de France
Giro d'Italia
2 stage, Giro d'Italia
Tour of Catalonia
1993 Tour de France
2 stages, Tour de France
Giro d'Italia
2 stages, Giro d'Italia
1994 Tour de France
1 stage, Tour de France
Hour Record - 53.040km
1995 Tour de France
2 stages, Tour de France
World Time Trial Championship
Dauphiné - Libéré
GP du Midi Libre
1996 Dauphiné - Libéré

Armstrong's Palmares (to date):

1993 World Pro Road Race
1 stage, Tour de France
1995 Clasica San Sebastian
1 stage, Tour de France
1996 Flèche Wallone
1998 Tour de Luxembourg
1999 Tour de France
4 stages, Tour de France
2000 Tour de France
1 stage, Tour de France
Grand Prix des Nations
GP Eddy Merckx, with Viacheslav Ekimov
2001 Tour de France
4 stages, Tour de France
Tour of Switzerland
2 stages, Tour of Switzerland

Lance won't even ride the Giro, Vuelta or the Worlds now that he is a "superstar". He pretty much ends his season after the TdF. Sh1t, he cannot even finish the G.P. San Francisco. In my mind he his wasting great talent for the glory of the Tour. Let's see him come out to play more seriously throughout the season.

Let's hear your rebuttal TJ, you always have one.

PJ
So, once we delete the Tours,TJeanloz
Mar 21, 2002 7:30 AM
If we presume them to have equal TdF records:

All Miguel has is:
1. Olympic TT/World TT
2. 2 Giro Wins
3. A handful of minor stage races
4. The hour record.

He lacks: Any victory in a 'Classic'

Armstrong has:
1. World Championship (No Olympic medal- yet)
2. You neglect his 4th place finish at the Vuelta Espange- which was a surprise at the time (1998).
3. 2 Classics wins, which, in my mind are tougher to get than a Paris-Nice or other minor stage race. Plus near misses in Amstel Gold and a few other classics.

What he needs, really, is the Hour, and a win in one of the other Grand Tours to satisfy you.

But Indurain really didn't do any more than Armstrong has (with the exception of the Giro wins). Armstrong's career has also been much shorter than Indurain's (so far). My point isn't to say that Indurain wasn't one of the best- only that the breadth of his racing was not any wider than that of Armstrong. And if the racing calander were the same today as it was when Indurain won the Giro/Tour double, Armstrong would likely ride the Giro to prepare for the tour as well. So, I do think its unfair to put Indurain in a category, and then exclude another rider for focusing on the Tour.
There is no doubt...Pedal Jockey
Mar 21, 2002 7:56 AM
if Armstrong rode in the other Grand Tours and the Worlds he would have much better reputation as a great cyclist in MY book. Others do think differently, and I have no problem with that. But Armstrong now comes across as a one-hit-wonder, by only competing for TdF victories. His 4th place in the Vuelta was impressive to watch, and I clearly recall the astonishment in Phil Liggett's voice as he watched LA climb with the best in the world throughout that race. But after that, LA has not touched the Vuelta. Big Mig rode the Giro every year he won the TdF except '95.

Certainly one of the major complaints about Indurain is that he never won (or tried to win) his nation's tour. I agree that the scope of Mig's racing season was narrow, but not as narrow as LA's. If you watch the World Road Race that LA won in '93, Mig was there until the end, and finished an event at the end of the season in conditions he hated. Mig almost always rode in the Worlds, and he desperately wanted to wear the Maillot Arc en Ciel. LA now could care less.

PJ
There is no doubt...mr_spin
Mar 21, 2002 9:32 AM
"...Mig was there until the end, and finished an event at the end of the season in conditions he hated."

He may have hated the conditions, but the World's wasn't at the end of the season in 1993. The race was held on August 29, roughly three weeks after the TDF.

Only in 1995 did the World's move to October to truly become an end of season event. And that's why it's been mostly B-list riders that have won it since.
Freire and Vainstain are not "B" list riders. (nm)Pack Meat
Mar 22, 2002 8:09 AM
nm
Freire and Vainstain are not "B" list riders. (nm)mr_spin
Mar 22, 2002 11:08 AM
Vainsteins is the ultimate B-list rider. What has he done other than win the World's?

If the World's were moved back to August, riders could carry over their TDF form. I have no doubt that Ullrich would have a road title and Armstrong would probably have a second.
Bronze medallongfellow68
Mar 21, 2002 8:11 AM
Armstrong got a bronze in Sydney for TT.
So, once we delete the Tours,bartali
Mar 22, 2002 5:49 AM
You make a very good point but you just can not ignore those two Giro victories.

No matter how you spin it, those two Giro victories are quite an accomplishment and it is something Armstrong will never do.

Even if Armstrong matches Indurain with 5 Tour victories, he will have never done Giro and Tour wins in the same year let alone two years in a row.
My Top 5....mr_spin
Mar 21, 2002 8:48 AM
Name one rider today who races all year and seriously contests both classics and GC at the tour. You can't, because there aren't any.

I get so tired of all the "Lance doesn't race enough" whining. I suspect it is based more in anti-Lance feeling than anything else.

The simple fact is that Lance is one of, if not THE dominant rider of his era. Zabel is a close second. Dekker might be third.

By the way, Moser will never rate as high on my list unless you exclude the races he did in Italy. The Italians tended to "rig" their races so he could win.

Enjoy the race.
My Top 5....harry hall
Mar 21, 2002 8:53 AM
Speaking of Moser--and L Fignon--didn't the Radio Italy helicopter create a tailwind for Moser in a crucial Giro time trial one year? Italian fans are weird--they curse Stephen Roche, Laurent Fignon, and Hinault one year and then damn near make an honorary Italian out of Andrew Hampsten the next--not like there's anything wrong with that!
Jalabert,TJeanloz
Mar 21, 2002 9:06 AM
Though beginning to show his age, Jalabert does contest races all year long. He has the most complete palmares of any current rider- of course, he's never managed to actually win a GT.
Jalabert is one to be recognizedPedal Jockey
Mar 21, 2002 9:16 AM
JaJa was victorious in the '95 Vuelta.

I agree that he is the best all around cyclist currently riding.

PJ
i wish a big victory for him...Spirito di Finocchio
Mar 21, 2002 9:35 AM
as he may be around for not too long and he deserves some better recognition and status.

he can mix it in many different racing scenes too.
I want proof that Armstrong is as great as everyone says...Pedal Jockey
Mar 21, 2002 9:30 AM
He doesn't race a whole season. Let's see how well he rides in the TdF after completing (and competing) in the Giro. He is a rider who can easily be competitive in the Ardennes classics, and he has shown he can race the one days well from the Amstel Gold last season.

But after the TdF, he calls it quits for the season. A great cyclist, like all of the great cyclists, rides competitively from March thru October. Lance is competitive from May thru July. Where is the fun in that. We are never going to see LA's true potencial with his desired season schedule.

I do not argue with you putting Zabel on your list. He is a great rider, although he will never win a grand tour.

To be honest, Armstrong is boring!! I admit, I do not like the guy, and I do not really care what anyone here thinks of me because of that. I have far greater respect for many other riders in the current peloton than Armstrong. The one I am paying close attention to is Di Luca. I suspect he will be next Hinault.

PJ
answering my own question...mr_spin
Mar 22, 2002 11:11 AM
I finally thought of a current rider who seriously contests both classics and GC: Casagrande.

I guess that makes him the greatest rider of all!

Yeah, right.
what about bottechia, lemond, lance?colker
Mar 21, 2002 6:35 AM
unless you had all top guys competing in their top form on the same race... it's impossible to be objective here.
Interesting question but ...McAndrus
Mar 21, 2002 7:01 AM
It's like asking for the Top 5 baseball players of all times. Too many variables, as the linked article discusses very well.

Heck, I'll bet we can't even get concurrence on the Top 5 today - and I mean, March 21, 2002.
Interesting question but ...grandemamou
Mar 21, 2002 7:12 AM
You are right there is no correct answer. I love arguing best baseball players or best football teams of all time over a few beers with friends.

The comments made about Indurain et al brought back memories of old races. Great moments that my beer addled brain had forgotten.
Ah, sports arguments in barsMcAndrus
Mar 21, 2002 7:37 AM
Who's the best left handed fastball pitcher since 1950 and could Babe Ruth hit him?

Surrounded by friends and plentiful beer those are truly the great moments in life.
There will never be concurrence...Pedal Jockey
Mar 21, 2002 7:13 AM
But that is the beauty of such a list.

There can be a list for top classics riders, top domestiques, top winners of the TdF, and on and on and on. Note, not one of you will put Jeanie Longo on the Top 5 list, and I am sorry I did not think of her when I made my list.

I do not care what others put on their list, and I have reasons for the riders on my list.

PJ
My Favorite 5McAndrus
Mar 21, 2002 7:57 AM
I won't go with a Top 5 because as I ponder the question I can't even come up with such a list. I do have a Favorite 5 and am curious to see the lists of others.

1 - Merckx - just watch Sunday in Hell once
2 - LeMond - truly ferocious competitor
3 - Kelly - the 93 Milan San Remo (or was it 92?)
4 - Zabel - the man can do it all
5 - Armstrong - Sestrieres, Hautacam, Alpe d'Huez

Honorable mention 5
1 - Indurain - Pure grace and power but not as much fun as Lance
2 - Ullrich - guts, guts, and more guts
3 - Hincapie - could be a climber if he wanted, could be a sprinter if he wanted, could be a Museeuw if he wanted but instead he wants to be a super domestique
4 - Cipollini - when the Red Train was rolling it was an awe inspring thing
5 - Fignon - pure class
re: Your top 5?dzrider
Mar 21, 2002 7:14 AM
Merckx - so good even us Americans can spell his name!

Hinault - What a competitor!

Coppi no telling what he'd have done during WW2

Indurain and Anquetil tie for 4 & 5

Some credit should be given to Stephen Roche for the greatest year in modern cycling when he won TdF, Giro and World Pro Championship.
re: Your top 5?harry hall
Mar 21, 2002 7:52 AM
Regardless of era and other picks the top 5 is incomplete without two Anglophones--Beryl Burton and Sean Kelly.
Why does the lack of a schlong keep BB out of everybody's list of best ever cyclists?
re: Your top 5?Bike Bum
Mar 21, 2002 4:13 PM
....cuz If your going to beg the question who is the greatist all time "cyclist" (regardless if they're schlonged or schlongless) for some darn reason the schlonged compete at a higher level...
re: Your top 5?mike r
Mar 21, 2002 4:30 PM
anglo (english)
kelly and roche are irish.
roche from the 'pale' (dublin)
kelly from carrick an suir. he still does a lot of riding with blazing saddles(for the blind) and competes in a few vets races
Tough callboneman
Mar 21, 2002 7:26 AM
My top five will be only for riders who were active at the time I began following the sport in 1972 which eliminate
Bartali, Coppi, Anquetil, Binda, Major Taylor, Audrey McElmury, etc.

Merckx

Hinault

Morelon (multiple sprint champion, both in the Olympics and the Worlds, now one of the French National team's coaches)

Lemond, even if he did chase down my wife's cousin Jock at the World's in Goodwood.

Kelly
Tough callharry hall
Mar 21, 2002 7:53 AM
Ah, Morelon-we forget trakcies too easily. In that case Hugh Porter and Koichi Nakano have to be possible choices, too.
LongoBrooks
Mar 21, 2002 7:42 AM
Got to be there for the length, breadth, and dominance in her career. And she is still going! Also, Merckx, Coppi, Hinault, and Anquetil.
My top 5RayBan
Mar 21, 2002 8:16 AM
Eddy Merckxx (Talking about a well rounded cyclist!)
Laurent Fignon
Tony Rominger
Jeannie Longo (Eddy Merckx's female equivilant)
Greg Lemond (the cyclist responsible for putting the US on the map...)
I like seeing Fignon in some lists!nmharry hall
Mar 21, 2002 8:51 AM
Merckx-Longo-Indurain-Kelly-Sydor (NM)tempeteKerouak
Mar 21, 2002 9:02 AM
whos sydor?Spirito di Finocchio
Mar 21, 2002 9:31 AM
im curious ive never really heard the name.
Allison Sydor, I think,Sintesi
Mar 21, 2002 9:34 AM
Mountain bike goddess.
Allison Sydor, I think,tempeteKerouak
Mar 21, 2002 9:41 AM
1999, 1998 & 1996 World Cup Champion
1999 World Elite Cross-Country Championships - second place
1998 Canadian National Champion
1998 Cactus Cup Overall -first place
1998 Twenty-one Victories
1997 Cactus Cup Overall - first place
1995 & 1996 winner of the Canadian Velma Springstead Award for an Outstanding Female Athlete
1996 Winner of the Canadian Press Bobbie Rosenfeld Award
1996 Olympic Mountain Bike Cross-Country-Silver Medal
1994, 1995 & 1996 World Cross-country Champion

That only for MTB...
thats cool - takes balls to put 2 women in the top 5Spirito di Finocchio
Mar 21, 2002 9:45 AM
and i mean that as a compliment.

im still waiting and would love to be inspired by womens cycling but i dont see any coverage on tv, i see nothing in magazines or the web.

as a matter of fact i cant rcall ever comming across a womens tour winner history site.

i dont think im being totally ignorant but i really do think the womens side of the sport has hardly any coverage or recognition - and i am sure i am missing out on following a lot of champion riders and performers without even knowing of them.

$hit its been over 30 years since the world took notice in the sports world due to b.j. king why is there so little for women in cycling.

thats sad really.
ill base mine not on wins alone but balls and guts...Spirito di Finocchio
Mar 21, 2002 9:27 AM
as that is what i find inspiring.

ill make it short without the hard sell as to why and what for

1. eddy merckx
2. migeul indurain
3. sean kelly
4. roger de vlaeminck
5. phil anderson (hey im an aussie)

lance deserves an honorable mention and is close to selection as what he does with just one ball is pretty high on a balls/guts equation.

all my top 5 have a certain panache, fighting spirit and i dont care about my body and the pain im enduring approach.

and they all rode in cool jerseys and had nice color schemes on their bikes which to me is also important.

Cippo is the only rider i actually wan to be.

panatani gets the best i dont care award.

lemond gets an award for the breaking in of a foreign scene.

and hinault gets an award as a pic of him actually got me salivating about bikes and started me riding them.
Its highly unusualchopper
Mar 21, 2002 9:35 AM
for people to agree on the "top" of anything but the consensus here is Merckx, and who can argue with that. A Sunday in Hell is a great watch.
Phil Anderson is the Lemond for the Aussies...Pedal Jockey
Mar 21, 2002 9:46 AM
Anderson was an awesome talent who got f#$ked by the french (doesn't everyone get f#$ked by the french) in '83. He could have won the TdF that year, and the situation he encountered may have ruined all future chances of ever winning the Tour. 23 Days in July is a great documentary on Phil, and he was a great asset to 7-Eleven/Motorola when they picked him up. What's more, he reeled in Shelley Verses, the first female soigneur to break in the European racing scene.

PJ
cheers for the heads up i never knew of the film...Spirito di Finocchio
Mar 21, 2002 10:11 AM
but from i have seen he was a real menace, grunter, fighter and showed the battling spirit i like. but he also looked like a amazing machine when he was out of the saddle and punching them pedals.

french f&*&king people over - all sports are wars without guns. had it been an australian tradition we would have done the same if we could. it happens the world over in every sport - there is pressure to win. i was in paris when they won the world cup football - all i can say is WOW - they were the happiest people ive ever seen.

vividly i remember that when australia won the america's cup yacht race - the prime minister BOB HAWKE was drunk on tv and announced that everyone should take a day off school and work and celebrate and that if any boss fired someone for doing so was a real MUG. how hilarious - but sporting victory does that for elation and joy.

5 years ive been waiting for them Jets to shine now that im new york - how frustrating.

i do enjoy the small pockets of aussies in europe around these days, i generally try not to be nationalistic but i cant help but quicken to alert when i hear their names. its not really pride but rather a "good for them" attitude as its a hard road for them to get to and im sure their success and recognition is an acheivement in itself.

the fact that most of them come from the track is no suprise because i think we all grew up riding both and enjoyed track because our mums and dads and girlfriends could see us and there was a crowd cheering rather than a bullbar and a horn honking.

after all is hard when you grow up cycling upside down all your life to then suffer the disorientation of them big mountains in europe. and i see lance wasnt keen on cycling upside down either but them german machines dont care either way. :-)

any pics of the shelley verses sheila? ill look out for the 23 days in july especially.
re: Your top 5?MikeC
Mar 21, 2002 9:48 AM
Merckx- No one could touch him in his time
Coppi- A hardman with talent
Indurain- Competed in the era of science and global competition, and still owned the Tour
Longo- Head and shoulders above other women, but still suffers from the "big fish in a small pond" stigma
Zabel- Yeah, I know. How can I put him ahead of Lance, Anquetil, Hinault, LeMond? Well, he competes as a generalist in today's world of specialists, despite the fact that he's one of the best sprinters in the world; he's been willing to play domestique; he keeps winning Green while trying to support Yellow; nobody thinks he's chemically enhanced; and count how many races he enters each year...
What about Johan Museeuw...Djudd
Mar 21, 2002 2:41 PM
He is a the personification of the oldest cycling archetype the "Belgian hardman". True he is not a man for the grand tours but in the early spring he is the man, no matter the injury or the weather. I'd be interested to know what TJeanloz thinks about Johan.
re: Your top 5?bartali
Mar 22, 2002 5:58 AM
Merckx, Coppi, Hinault, Anquetil, Bartali

If it wasn't for WWII, Coppi and Bartali would have won more. I actually believe Bartali would have won more than Coppi.

Not only was Coppi the first to win Giro and Tour (49 & 52), he was also a World Cahmpion on the road (53) and World Champion on the track TWICE (pursuit). He set the hour record in 1942.

Other greats: Binda, Bottecchia, Bobet, Gimondi, Indurain and Moser.

Armstrong? Please. He doesn't even make my top ten list.
My top 5 were the most influential to me.Pack Meat
Mar 22, 2002 8:25 AM
1. Lemond - innovation and busting open the euro scene during a time that I needed a roll model
2. Merckx - the cannibal, the man is a living legend
3. Bob Roll - Proved to me that you don't have to be a genetic freak to bike race, just a freak.
4. Hinault - on of the greatest competitors ever
5. Jack Daugherty - Cat 2 racer. He taught what it is to be a biker and not just some guy that rides a bike.
re: Your top 5?RideLots
Mar 22, 2002 8:26 AM
1. Pete Penseyres - transcontinental average speed record holder (15.4 mph) (and many other records)

2. Seana Hogan - same for women - unreal speed at 50 crank rpms (and many other records)

3. Danny Chew - possibly more miles than anyone who ever lived, and can ride a century in just over 4 hours - alone

4. Michael Secrest - once rode over 1200 miles in 24 hours (drafting a semi); fastest absolute time west coast to east coast USA (7 days 23 hours) (and many other records)

5. Eddy Merckx
re: Your top 5?Bil Bikie
Mar 24, 2002 3:19 PM
I rate Armstrong above Indurain basically on how he wins...aggressively. He dosen't win the time trials and then just "sit-in". Armstrong also rides a variety of races. After he ages a bit he'll probably become a great classic rider. I'd also rate Kelly and Museeuw above Indurain.