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Cassette and Rear Derailleurs match up??(19 posts)

Cassette and Rear Derailleurs match up??neo
Mar 14, 2002 12:03 PM
I upgraded my shifters and rear derailleur to Dura Ace from ultegra. My LBS also stated I would need a dura Ace cassette. I thought all nine speed stuff was interchangable, even if I wanted to put a XTR cassette on there (of course considering the cage length). Do I need to get a Dura Ace cassette, if I already have several Ultegra cassettes that are perfectly fine laying around?? Nine speed Shimano is nine speed Shimano right? The spacing should be the same............
Your LBS is trying to take advantage of you.Dave Hickey
Mar 14, 2002 12:09 PM
Your Ultegra cassette is fine. As long as your running double shifters/derailluers/cassettes, any 9 speed Shimano will work.
re: Cassette and Rear Derailleurs match up??pmf1
Mar 14, 2002 12:09 PM
Sounds like your LBS has some DA cassettes they really want to sell.

You're perfectly correct. You can use 9-v Ultegra cassettes on a 9-v DA set up. I do it all the time. The Ultegra cassettes, while a bit heavier, last longer and are cheaper.

I have never tried the XTR. I think the derailer won't be able to handle that range of gearing (max is 12x27).
I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt,TJeanloz
Mar 14, 2002 12:18 PM
While most seem happy to condemn your LBS to having tried to cheat you, I'll say that while they gave you incorrect information, we don't know whether they're trying to cheat you or not.

Firstly though, you can use an Ultegra (or 105) cassette.

In potential defense of the bike shop, remember that until 1998, Dura-Ace and Ultegra were not interchangeable, and in the fray of bike shop life (particularly a MTB oriented shop that doesn't work with a lot of DA) the point may be forgotten that the two systems now are interchangeable. I'm not saying for certain that the shop was not trying to cheat you- but it could have been an honest mistake.
Correctiongrzy
Mar 14, 2002 12:28 PM
The only thing that was incompatible about 1998 DA was that the shifters and der. had to match due to differernt leverage/actuation ratios. It has nothing to do with the cogset or any other component. The spacing and pitch of the cogs are all identical - even in the 8 speed world.

The shop is either very ignorant or trying to cheat him. If they're that ignorant then they're doing everyone a disservice. In either event why would you continue to give them your business?
Grzy is correctDave Hickey
Mar 14, 2002 12:44 PM
In the 6,7 and 8 speed world all you needed were a DA shifters to match the DA rear derailleur. All the other components(included cassettes) could be 105 or 600/Ultegra.
Grzy is correctTJeanloz
Mar 14, 2002 12:48 PM
Yes he is. In the future, I will try to refrain from smoking crack at the office.
Did 9-v come out in 1998?pmf1
Mar 14, 2002 12:29 PM
I forget when it was. I do recall 8-v DA and Ultegra were not interchangable. Its always been interchangable in the 9-v versions, right?

And the 9-v DA/Ultegra cassettes fit on my Ultegra 8-v hubs, but I guess not on the DA 8-v hubs. I always wondered why they chose Ultegra over DA for compatibity with the new 9-v group. Do you know, oh God of bike trivia?

I still think this guy's shop should know better. If an idiot like me knows this, shouldn't guys selling bikes know it?
Did 9-v come out in 1998?grzy
Mar 14, 2002 3:25 PM
DA 9 speed has always been interchangeable with Ultegra 9 since it's introduction in 1998 (?).

All 8 and 9 speed cogsets fit on all Shimano 8/9 freehub bodies b/c the cassette to which all of the cogs are attached to are all the same dimension. The is no such thing as a 8 speed vs. 9 freehub body - it's one in the same. In fact you can also run 8 and 9 speed MTB cogsets (LX, XT, XTR, etc.) and deraileur cage length is all you really need to worry about.

It's kind of easy to get the stuff mixed up if you only mess with it occasionaly - any guy worth his salt in a LBS should know this - otherwise s/he should NOT be working on your bike.
9 came out in 1997, or was it 96jp2
Mar 15, 2002 6:35 AM
got ours back in sept. '97, many, many folks had it before then. still works great too after 35k miles
9 came out in 1997, or was it 96TJeanloz
Mar 15, 2002 7:10 AM
Dura-Ace went 9speed in 1996; Ultegra followed with the 1998 model year (that was available post-Interbike 1997). So, there was 9 speed before 1998, but there were no compatibility questions until 1998 because Ultegra 8 was obviously not compatible with Dura-Ace 9.
I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt,harry hall
Mar 14, 2002 2:52 PM
I'd give them the benefit of doubt also--but 9 speed has been out for 6 or 7 years now and it should be pretty well known that any 9 speed cassette will work with any other Shimano system. That was the case with 7 speeds and 8 speeds. The incompatibility was between Dura-Ace and non-Dura-Ace levers and rear derailleurs. Cassettes and threaded freewheels were always interchangeable.
BZZZZTgrzy
Mar 14, 2002 3:32 PM
9 speed has only really been out since 1998 - 4 or 5 years depending on how you count.

7 speed has never been compatible with anything else. A 7 speed cogset requires a 7 speed freehub body which isn't the same as the 8/9 speed unit. Also the axle length and required dish are different. some people cob 7 speed stuff together with other parts, but it never works that well.

If you give them the benifit of the doubt that the weren't trying to rip him off then you'd have to conclude that they're dopes - along the line of car salesmen. When was the last time you found a car salesman that actually knew anything about the product they're trying to pitch?
7 speed compatibilitylonefrontranger
Mar 14, 2002 4:01 PM
You hit the nail on the head, grzy. I practically went straight from 7 to 10. In the lean years I never could afford to partially upgrade because of the sheer number of parts I had to switch to make a functional drivetrain, so I just kept on digging old 7-speed bits out of everyone else's junk boxes.
BZZZZTharry hall
Mar 16, 2002 10:13 AM
My error of omission: I meant to say "within the same number of speeds" when saying that a DA rear wheel would work with same#o'speeds Ultegra, 105, etc. When 7 speeds were introduced, the 7 freehub body couldn't use some of Shimano's 6 speed cassettes. I was pretty sure that 9 first surfaced in 1996; maybe my employer of the time had an inside track on supply.
re: Cassette and Rear Derailleurs match up??Troyboy
Mar 14, 2002 12:59 PM
Well, I won't comment on the motivations of the shop.

On a tangent here, you got the right piece. If you went the slightly cheaper route with all your components, you'd be spending a bit less but adding lots and lots of weight. If you've got mostly or all DA, you've got enough invested to treat yourself to a DA cassette as well. Why go DA at all if you've got an XTR rear der, maybe some really heavy rims laced with crap spokes on 105 hubs, etc. I don't know, maybe it's just me... Doesn't it shift nicely? Really silky. Enjoy!
related: (9sp) will 105 shifter work w/ Ultegra r.derailleur? nmJS Haiku Shop
Mar 14, 2002 1:03 PM
yes, all nine speeds are interchangable (nm)Dave Hickey
Mar 14, 2002 1:16 PM
thanks! nmJS Haiku Shop
Mar 14, 2002 1:27 PM