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15.47 Pound Steel Bike for Less than $3,400?(33 posts)

15.47 Pound Steel Bike for Less than $3,400?joeg26er
Mar 11, 2002 7:43 PM
Challenge - can you spec a 15.47 pound Steel Road bike for LESS than $3,400?

This is for a 52cm frame.
Rules:joeg26er
Mar 11, 2002 7:49 PM
Forgot to lay some ground rules.

Must use STI
Must have at least 18 gears
Must have front and rear brakes
Must have 700c clinchers
Must be at least $150 cheaper
Must not include "parts I had lying around already"
No Wholesale or Pro Deal Pricing - unless you are going to extend it to everyone.
re: so close!!collinsc
Mar 11, 2002 9:43 PM
quite the challenge.
this isnt really the best way (wrenchscience.com) to go about getting a cheap bike, especially when you remember sites like abicibikes.com where you can get dura ace build kits for way way cheap, leaving you a ton of cash to spare.

maybe ill piece another one together just to see, but for now this is as close as I got:

Weight: 16.01lbs

Subtotal: $3,548.76

Frame :: Ciocc EOM Red/Blue 2.8lbs
Frame Size :: 52cm Center-to-Center


Fork :: Ciocc Mizuno Carbon OEM spec'd 0.7lbs


Brakes :: Cane Creek BRS-200 SL Silver - Caliper 250g
Brake Shift :: Shimano Dura-Ace 9spd Silver 432g
Crank :: Shimano Dura-Ace 9spd Polished - 39-53 - 172.5mm 600g
Bottom Bracket :: Shimano Dura-Ace Silver 70mm - 109.5mm 173g
Front Derailleur :: Shimano Dura-Ace 9spd Silver 87.5g
Cassette :: Shimano Dura-Ace 9spd Silver - 11-23 154g
Rear Derailleur :: Shimano Dura-Ace 9spd Silver 195g
Chain :: Shimano D-Ace / XTR 9spd Silver 304g
Pedals :: Speedplay X/3 Black/CrMo 225g
Headset :: Chris King NoThread Set Silver - Threadless - 1in 111g
Stem :: Ritchey Comp Black - Threadless - -6° 175g
Handlebar :: Deda Elementi 215 Black - Anatomic - 42cm 208g
Handlebar Tape :: Cinelli Solid Cork Black 15g
Cables :: Shimano Stainless Silver 120g
Housing :: Shimano Housing Gray 160g
Seatpost :: Thomson Elite Silver 180g
Saddle :: Selle Italia Flite Ti Black - Male - Non-Anatomic 195g
Tires(f/r) :: Vittoria Action Pro (K) All Black - 23cm 420g
Tubes(f/r) :: Salsa Ultralight 138g
Front Hub :: DT Swiss Hugi 240 32h Black 94g
Rear Hub :: DT Swiss Hugi 240 32h Black 231g
Front Rim :: Velocity AeroHead 32h Silver 405g
Rear Rim :: Velocity AeroHead 32h Silver 405g
Rim Tape :: Velox Cloth Rim Tape Cloth 15g
Front Spoke :: DT Swiss DT Revolution 15/17 dble-butted Silver 128.96g
Rear Spoke :: DT Swiss DT Revolution 15/17 dble-butted Silver 128.96g
Front Skewer :: Salsa Stainless flip-off Black 49g
Rear Skewer :: Salsa Stainless flip-off Black 49g
Nipple :: DT Swiss Alloy Silver 32g
reality checkCT1
Mar 11, 2002 10:04 PM
Some (if not most) of the weights you list are absolute bogus factory BS #'s. You'd probably need to add about 1/2# to get back to reality.

YMMV
JohnG
reality check #2collinsc
Mar 12, 2002 12:05 AM
were talking about a 15.5lb steel bike for less than $3400, what do you think about the reality of that idea?
..i think it needs some help from bogus numbers

and like i said, all thats from wrenchscience.com so dont bother giving me shit over BS numbers, not my fault nor my responsibility.
WrenchScience Questionjoeg26er
Mar 12, 2002 6:02 AM
I was wondering, what happens if you build a bike on wrenchscience and order it and it weighs more than what was stated on the online build?

Do you get your money back?
Or do they work with you until it weighs what was promised?

(too early to call them right now)
WrenchScience Questiongrandemamou
Mar 12, 2002 6:24 AM
Do you get your money back?
I seriously doubt it. They can't be held responsible for Mfr's "claimed" weights.

Or do they work with you until it weighs what was promised?
I doubt it. The only way to do this is to weigh each part as it goes onto the bike or build it up, weigh it and start swapping parts.

The weight should be close but may be off by as much as a lb or more. Don't sweat the load. You will never notice a pound. Chose lightweight parts judiciously. At some point it won't be worth the money or safety to go lighter.
man, you just don't get it do you.....CT1
Mar 12, 2002 8:26 PM
And you probably NEVER WILL!

BS in ===> BS out!

JohnG
The point isgrandemamou
Mar 12, 2002 6:13 AM
You can't trust published numbers. The only way you can get an accurate weight is to measure each part individualy or build it up and weigh it.

Mfr's have different ways of weighing things. The frame: Is the weight with or without paint? What size are they using? Say for example 52 cm with paint 2.8 lbs. But did they include clear coat and decals? Man those guys are tricky. The wheels: with or without eyelets? With or without decals? With or with out skewers?

They don't outright lie. I'm sure at some point and in some way they actually recorded those weights. A few grams here and a few grams there, will add up when all is said and done.

I have a 51 cm EV2 built up with Record the rest filled out with light but not ultra light components and it built up at 16lbs flat. Without getting stupid it would be pretty hard to get a steel frame that low.
I don't think it's possible...TJeanloz
Mar 12, 2002 7:04 AM
There might be some light steel frames out there- but they're pretty expensive. I had a hard time getting my Vortex below 16lbs, and it was (at retail) way more than $3400.
I don't think it's possible...Anvil
Mar 12, 2002 7:52 AM
The 56 in the pic weighs 15.8 with SPDR pedals on Wheatridge's scale (I didn't weigh it myself). Change the saddle to and SLR, change the seatpost for a USE Carbon Alien, put on some Prima199s instead of the Pro260 bar, replace the CF seatstays with steel, change the Lews for some Shook CF's, put on some Speedplay Ti's and it's 15. The bike I just described with full Record would be under $3,500. Drop the Shook CF wheels for some of their 350 clincher wheelset and the price would be just under $3,100 and weigh about 250 grams more. Do the whole thing with Duracci and it'd weigh about the same but cost a couple hundred less.
That's a dizzying array of changes...TJeanloz
Mar 12, 2002 8:11 AM
I can't do all of the addition and subtraction in my head, nor can I tell what parts are on that bike- so it makes it pretty impossible for that picture and weight to be helpful. But it would be helpful if you could inform us all of what steel tubeset that bike's made out of, what the frame weighs, and how cheaply you sell them.

And I understood this exercise to be at full retail- so I guestimated your high end steel frames are in the $400-$800 range?
That's a dizzying array of changes...Anvil
Mar 12, 2002 10:43 AM
It said: "No Wholesale or Pro Deal Pricing - unless you are going to extend it to everyone." and that's what I put up there. None of the prices I posted are cut rate, but they're not MSRP either, it's a package price.

As far as the bike pictured, it's a 56 and the frame weighs just at 3lbs as you see it there. It's built out of EOM16.5 and my tubes (didn't have my seattube when this bike was built) and it uses Columbus Foco chainstays and their CF seatstays. It's not an exercise, here's a picture of its owner, Ryan Sabga, winning a Pro 1 Open race on it. He's had that bike since November and already has over 6,000 miles on it since he trains on it too. Most of the components are '01 Record 10. Fork is an Ouzo Pro, bars are Deda 285s (not Pro260s as I said before), Newton stem, Avocet 02r saddle, ITM Millenium seatpost, King headset, 11/23 Campy Ti cassette, Campy chain, custom Lew wheels (a little heavier than the new Sydneys), Tufo tubies, SPDR pedals. There are some pretty obvious places to cut some weight if you had a mind to as I said in my previous post.

Now, are sub 3-pound frames right for everybody? No. My personal opinion is that some folks would be better off with a bike that could survive an attack by hammer wielding ex-girlfriends.
LOL - i know a guy with a hammer wielding current wifeSpirito di Finocchio
Mar 12, 2002 10:50 AM
his columbus slx frame took a few good knocks after she found out how much he spent on his assos winter kit. they are still together and he proudly shows his frame with battle scars.

love is a funny thing
Strange Geometry?joeg26er
Mar 12, 2002 8:04 PM
Is this a full custom built frame?

I was thinking that the top tube is too short on that bicycle.

The seat is slammed all the way back and the stem seems awfully long.

What's the reason for this?
Rider PreferenceAnvil
Mar 12, 2002 8:14 PM
Ryan likes to shove his saddle all the way back on the rails and he wanted to use a 130 stem so the bike was designed to accomodate that and fit him properly. Since he's a pro who rides 16,000-miles a year, I only argued with him a little about it. Since he's now recovering from a crash on the track that broke his hip, I'm sure he'll be reading the board and explain why he likes his bike set up that way; he has his reasons.
Rider PreferenceAnvil
Mar 12, 2002 8:19 PM
Ryan likes to shove his saddle all the way back on the rails and he wanted to use a 130 stem so the bike was designed to accomodate that and fit him properly. Since he's a pro who rides 16,000-miles a year, I only argued with him a little about it. Since he's now recovering from a crash on the track that broke his hip, I'm sure he'll be reading the board and explain why he likes his bike set up that way; he has his reasons. Actually, he may not respond, he has surgery tomorrow...
i think its possible butSpirito di Finocchio
Mar 12, 2002 8:35 AM
you would need a good deal on whoever you bought the frame off to get the dur-ace parts that you need ie shifters and derailleurs. i coulnt be bothered trying to scrawl around all the different sites to try to do it

but some of the parts youll need

small lite frame on sale pergoretto, casati, ciocc????
carbon fork
itm millenium
easton carbon bars
selle slr evo
morati cranks
ta kheops cassette
one of the trick Ti bottom brackets
wheels such as odds and endos (am classic hubs and 350g am-classic rims whith 28/32 wheelsmith 14/17 spokes and alloy nipps 1324 grams (1284 if 24/28) - he gives a guarantee on weight to 3%)
dia compe brakes
veloflex records
stronglight headset
lite rim tape
velox cloth bartape
lite seat post - im sure there are some lighter than 180 grams
pedals (whats the lightest these days - speedplay)

and if you have any money left over id try to use ti bolts where possible.

would i do it - no way, even if i had the money and wanted steel 18.5 lbs would be as light as id want to go. anything lighter thats made out of steel doesn't feel the way i like a bike to feel underneath me. of the above the only things id worry about are the brakes, bottom bracket and the rim tape.

im pretty sure it could come in at the price as the wheels are only $330 and IF you didnt have to count the shipping as there would be at least 8 different sources for components. whoever you bought the frame off would have to give a good deal on the shinmao dura-ace parts you needed. buying as much as possible from totalcycling would be a good start.

damon rinard's site confirms that most of the components are accurate in weight and if the manufacturer claims a steel frame is 3.5 lbs you can bet your ass that a smaller frame of 52cm or less will be at or under their claims.

on second thoughts cracking 16 pounds would be pretty tough......maybe its just not possible unless you filled the tires with helium as compressed air weighs 12 odd grams a pair of wheels

;-)
checked w/ Am-classic on their 350 gram alloy clincher rimsSpirito di Finocchio
Mar 12, 2002 10:17 AM
and they do say that they generally come in lighter than advertised weight but the weight limit (funnily enough) is 175lbs.

they also recommended brass nipps for riders above 150lbs as they have no eyelets.

and at a guess i think they are specially made for am classic by velocity but this is just me speculating.

at $58 each they do offer good value for a light custom wheelset if you plan on using pretty stock hubs for price and reliability.
But . . . where could I ride it? An ice rink?cory
Mar 12, 2002 8:55 AM
Weight weenies, Jeez...
It's an interesting exercise, I guess. But where is a 225-pound cyclist like me going to USE the thing? I'll bet it wouldn't even go down the stairs to the river, like my Atlantis. I like my fantasies to have some practical application. Except the one about Laura San Giacomo, of course.
Pratical Applications:joeg26er
Mar 12, 2002 4:51 PM
Cory,
If you weigh 225 pounds and ride a 52cm frame, I would suggest getting some more miles in or another hobby...LOL ;)

It is also a bit strange where people are trying to use dura ace components - here is a hint- use 105 to cut costs...

Actually, I just realized that an additional 120-170 grams can be cut from that 15.47 pounds and ALSO save about $30-40.

Oh yeah, no Ti or AL aftermarket bolts/kits were used to get that weight either...tough eh?

For some reality, this 52cm, 15.47 (or less) bicyle would be ridden by a 5'7" 130 pound cyclist.

I know somebody can do it...who?
I'm going the other way....DINOSAUR
Mar 12, 2002 9:47 AM
I've been riding a Klein for the past three seasons, probably weighs around 18 pounds. Then I put my 220lb ass on the saddle and it beats the crap out of me (sometimes). So I decided to forget about the weight factor and am going back to steel. The owner of my LBS is a big guy at 250 and rides a custom Mondonico FOCO. He has been trying to get me on a Mondonico for about a year. So we finally talked turkey and I elected on a Colnago MLX (which he cut a very sweet deal). All said and done, he said that the MLX would weigh less than the Mondonico (he has a steel fork).
I dunno, maybe if I was in the pro peloton weight might matter, but for me I'll take comfort over weight.
But to each their own, I guess...
I read that Eddy Merckx was a weight weenie. During one race he had 18 bikes at his disposal in which he had drilled out all the Campy Super Record components trying to make them as light as possible. Maybe there is something to it...
AgreeNessism
Mar 12, 2002 10:15 AM
It takes just one quick look in the mirror to make me realize that worrying about a couple of pounds on the bike is a waste of my energy. And I'm only maybe 7 lbs. overweight.

I was receintly trying to decide between a Dedacciai Zero frame (similar to Columbus Foco) or a ZeroUno frame (similar to Columbus Zonda). I choose the ZeroUno because it's stiffer and more durable (more dent resitant and better general ruggedness). I could have gone to super oversize Foco to get back some stiffness that the thin tubes loose, but the ruggedness still would not be there to my liking.

Regarding those MXL frames, they are known to be hell for stiff. I'm not sure the ride quality will me much better than that Klein. The fork in particular is quite robust. Great frame, don't get me wrong. Just not a comfy cruiser.

Ed
im scratching for 20 lbs... probably wont make itSpirito di Finocchio
Mar 12, 2002 10:28 AM
53cm lugged steel frame with chrome :-)

downtube friction shifters and freewheel hubs

same for me for weight - its not really that important but my target of 20lbs on my budget isnt easy as them freewheels are heavy and so are all the seats i like. if i get under 21lbs ill be a happy and smarmy retro head.

it'll sure look pretty.
What's the bike again? nmscottfree
Mar 12, 2002 11:21 AM
merckxSpirito di Finocchio
Mar 12, 2002 11:59 AM
laid down a deposit whilst im looking for the parts needed

if its put together by the end of june ill be happy

http://www.gvhbikes.com/stradas/11-2-01/53%20Strada%20RW.jpg
a beauty! especiallyscottfree
Mar 12, 2002 1:00 PM
if you build it with a quill stem!
Speaking of quill stems...Nessism
Mar 12, 2002 5:43 PM
Nashbar is blowing out the remaining stock of ITM Eclypse stems for $17 each. I bought a 100 and 110 for future prosperity. These are very nice stems and look great on a lugged frame in my opinion.

Ed
and they even look better...Spirito di Finocchio
Mar 13, 2002 6:11 AM
if you dab a bit of brake fluid on those decals and rub them off.
Been there, done that! (nm)Nessism
Mar 13, 2002 7:44 AM
nm
merckxRutterMan
Mar 12, 2002 1:42 PM
That's pretty funny becuase I look at that frame just about everyday and have been wondering whether or not to put down a deposit myself. I'm surprised that its still listed, I suppose he wants people to inquire about it and then he can try to sell them something else. I almost bought a black Cinelli he had a few weeks back, too. I hope he gets some new stock in soon.

Enjoy the ride.
AgreeDINOSAUR
Mar 12, 2002 7:06 PM
Well, it's good to hear about the MLX being stiff. Frame is due on the 15th, I articulated to the owner of my LBS what I wanted as far as a ride. Hard to imagine anything riding harsher than my Klein, but proof will be in the pudding.
re: 15.47 Pound Steel Bike for Less than $3,400?sctri
Mar 12, 2002 9:12 PM
I got it real close...
No pedals tho.. very cool looking frame...

Weight: 15.63lbs

Subtotal: $3,376.66


Frame :: Sycip Pave 33 Ash (Lt Grey) 3.16lbs
Frame Size :: 52cm Center-to-Center


Fork :: Easton EC 90 Carbon 0.74lbs


Brakes :: Cane Creek BRS-200 SL Silver - Caliper 250g
Brake Shift :: Shimano Dura-Ace 9spd Silver 432g
Crank :: Shimano Dura-Ace 9spd Polished - 42-53 - 175mm 615g
Bottom Bracket :: Shimano Dura-Ace Silver 68mm - 109.5mm 173g
Front Derailleur :: Shimano Dura-Ace 9spd Silver 87.5g
Cassette :: Shimano Dura-Ace 9spd Silver - 11-21 152g
Rear Derailleur :: Shimano Dura-Ace 9spd Silver 195g
Chain :: Shimano D-Ace / XTR 9spd Silver 304g
Headset :: Race Face Team SL Silver - Threadless - 1 1/8in 99g
Stem :: TTT Zepp Black - Threadless - -10° 125g
Handlebar :: TTT Prima 199 Black - Anatomic - 42cm 200g
Handlebar Tape :: Cinelli Solid Cork Black 15g
Cables :: Shimano Stainless Silver 120g
Housing :: Shimano Housing Gray 160g
Seatpost :: Thomson Elite Silver 195g
Saddle :: Selle Italia SLR XP Black - Male - Non-Anatomic 180g
Tires(f/r) :: Vittoria Ultra Speed (K) Black - 23cm 310g
Tubes(f/r) :: Michelin Aircomp 130g
Front Hub :: Shimano Dura-Ace 28h Silver 123g
Rear Hub :: Shimano Dura-Ace 28h Silver 310g
Front Rim :: Velocity AeroHead 28h Black 405g
Rear Rim :: Velocity AeroHead 28h Black 405g
Rim Tape :: Rox SuperDutE 8g
Front Spoke :: DT Swiss DT Revolution 15/17 dble-butted Silver 112.84g
Rear Spoke :: DT Swiss DT Revolution 15/17 dble-butted Silver 112.84g
Front Skewer :: Salsa Titanium flip-off Silver 39g
Rear Skewer :: Salsa Titanium flip-off Silver 39g
Nipple :: DT Swiss Alloy Silver 28g