|Pantani flaps his gums||cydswipe|
Mar 9, 2002 3:34 PM
|In a Feb. 19 article in the Chicago Tribune. Marco Pantani was quoted as saying of Lance Armstrong: "He's not a great champion. He's clever and he's
making the most of his sickness." Zing! Wow, Pantani must be ready to play the feud. After watching Marco the last few years following his 1998 victory in France, I can't believe he would issue such a statement.
|re: Pantani flaps his gums||Elefantino|
Mar 9, 2002 3:46 PM
|I can. He has never forgiven, and will never forgive, LA for Ventoux.
Mar 10, 2002 4:39 AM
|I'd suspect the biggest satisfaction for him would be not to win the tour but to return Ventoux favor|
|he's Italian - wears heart on his sleeve - Freud not needed NM||Spirito di Finocchio|
Mar 9, 2002 4:27 PM
|He's a retard||Lazywriter|
Mar 9, 2002 5:48 PM
|and simply shouldn't make ridiculous statements like that regardless of what nationality he is. If he is that diluted to think Lance didn't "give" him that win on Ventoux, then he really is a stupid little Guinea. Ooops, forgive me, I am of italian heritage and tend to say what I think. Isn't that silly?|
|These things are said for his own motivation...||Djudd|
Mar 9, 2002 6:26 PM
|I'd be willing to bet that Pantani does not mean half of what he says about LA. For his own motivation he makes things personal. Fignon did the same thing with Lemond, Lemond with Hinault and so on. Cycling, on certain levels, seems to breed these highly personalized rivalries, they never seem to last too long but they are very intense.|
|"He's a retard"-actually he's not||BAi9302010|
Mar 9, 2002 7:20 PM
|When Pantani entered the 2000 Tour, he had basically no preperation and he had spent some time in jail, unlike Lance, who had prepared since the end of the '99 Tour. It came as no surprise that Lance could have beaten him at Ventoux, but obviously he wanted to be some kind of hero or something and let Marco win.
Pantani is getting a little bit older (32), but if he prepares for this Tour, get ready to see Lance get spanked on some of the climbs. Marco Pantani is, if not the best, one of the best climbers that have ever competed in the Tour. Whether or not he will challenge the overall,who knows, but many people have made comebacks in the past, including LeMond, Hinault, Merckx and many others and gone on to win the Tour.
About Pantani's comments(I have a huge respect for both riders), I believe that he is angry at Lance because Lance is trying to make a hero out of himself,and in doing so, he has used Pantani, who likemost Italians, took it very personally. A perfect example of this, was Mt. Ventoux. By letting Pantani win at Mt. Ventoux, Lance obviously made himself look like a hero, but by doing this he humiliated Pantani.
Another thing that is making Pantani angry, is that the public views Lance as the only professional cyclist who has ever had to suffer and struggle in life. Unfortunately, this isn't true at all. As all of you probably know, Pantani, himself, has had many, many struggles and problems. The difference is, Pantani's problems concerned drugs, which is not nearly as heroic and romantic as surviving cancer.
|didn't he climb L'ALPE-D'HUEZ faster then LA?||cyclopathic|
Mar 9, 2002 9:04 PM
|LA couldn't match him last year..|
|didn't he climb L'ALPE-D'HUEZ faster then LA?||Lazywriter|
Mar 9, 2002 9:15 PM
|I think the difference was less than 30 seconds. Do you think Pantani rather hold that record or 3 Tours De France in a row?????|
|didn't he climb L'ALPE-D'HUEZ faster then LA?||merckx56|
Mar 10, 2002 5:50 AM
|pantani's attack started at the base of the mountain. lance went away almost 2 kms later. head to head up the alpe, i'll take lance!|
|Can't compare the two...||DT|
Mar 10, 2002 7:36 PM
|...LA had a tougher stage leading into it...longer, more climbing, not to mention he leapt 2k later. I think, given all those factors, LA actually climbed it faster! You want to compare the two? Get them side by side, doing the same uphill TT on the same day under the same conditions, LA 2 minutes after Elefantino...oh, wait...that'll never happen, because the Big Ear'd one will PULL OUT THE DAY BEFORE IT HAPPENS!! HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!! :o) Don't get me wrong...I'm actually more of a Pantani fan than a LA fan...Lance treats his teammates like crap. But Pantani has talked a lot of smack the past two years, and has yet to show any indication of backing any of it up. He sucked last year, and all indications point to the fact he's gonna suck again this year. Next year, he'll be a year older. I'd love to see him back in form, but I honestly don't think it'll happen. He's washed...|
|That is as about as ridiculous a||Lazywriter|
Mar 9, 2002 9:07 PM
|defense that I ever heard. First, if Pantani's "struggle" is a result of his own drug use and not the unfortunate and unavoidable obstacle like fu#$king CANCER, then I have no sympathy.
I never and will never consider any sports star a "hero". I have for ages stated that people use that word too loosely and it took 9/11 for most people to realize the difference. When I think hero, I see men/women who have changed the world or risk their lives for others. Not some world class athlete who is usually spoiled and self centered.
Lance however is worthy of admiration for what he has achieved considering his story. Pantani is a great cyclist, but talking shi$ because he lacks the discipline that Lance has doesn't impress me. Pantani's "struggles" and car wrecks are a result of his own sutpidity and he doesn't deserve the same level of admiration as Lance.
Lance gave him the victory out of respect and not to patronize him. Why didn't Jan get upset when they crossed the line basically together last year?
Lance doesn't make a hero out of himself. His "story" did this and the public's fascination with it. People act like everything he does is calculated to make him look more like a "hero". It is the public that loves that crap sentimentality. Like I said, Lance isn't my "hero", but worthy of respect and admiration for what he is, a great cyclist who overcame an obstacle that many people can relate to. It is the fact that despite who he is, disease doesn't discriminate which "normalizes" him. Pantani has the balls to say that Lance intentionally exploits that?
|why don't you look this way||cyclopathic|
Mar 9, 2002 9:35 PM
|Pantani's "struggles" and car wrecks are a result of his own sutpidity and he doesn't deserve the same level of admiration as Lance
whatever happened to LA is his own fault: what it earns you save Darwin award not to go to doctor for more then a year if it hurts??
|Are you serious?||Lazywriter|
Mar 9, 2002 9:42 PM
|You equate Pantani's stupidity to Lance's delay in seeing a doctor??? He was a young world class athlete, of course he didn't think he was sick. You must be trying to be silly.|
|no I am objective||cyclopathic|
Mar 9, 2002 10:07 PM
|and you obviously in love with LA|
|Yeah, you are right I want to||Lazywriter|
Mar 9, 2002 10:25 PM
|blow him. Objectivity implies some degree of intelligence and insight which your argument lacks. I can see the point that his accomplishments are magnified because of the cancer, but he still is 3 time Tour winner which Pantani will never be.|
|no actually you're right||cyclopathic|
Mar 9, 2002 10:39 PM
|it is even more stupid intentionally avoid doctor for so long. Marco on other hand has problem to control his temper and like any Italian loves to drive fast on bad roads (there're no good roads in Italy)
I have highest respect to LA even not for comeback (Chris Carmichael should be credited for talking him into), for his ability to stay focused train and win.
|wasn't pantani run over in the alps while training?||colker|
Mar 10, 2002 6:43 AM
|didn't he spend six months in clutches trying to get back on the bike and then came back to win the giro AND the tour? |
lance is great, pantani is great.
|No, it was IN the Giro||TJeanloz|
Mar 10, 2002 11:17 AM
|Pantani went face first into an SUV on a descent in the Giro (either '95 or '96) that was going the WRONG WAY up the course because of a miscommunication. The wreck was nasty; he broke both his legs and was in the hospital for months.
The only team that would sign him after the wreck was Mercatone Uno, then a tiny outfit that couldn't begin to pay him what he was worth- hence his interesting contract structure (sponsorship of Pantani is independent of Mercatone, so Bianchi has to negotiate a deal with Pantani, and then with the rest of the team.)
In '98 Pantani was the comeback kid, winning the Giro/Tour double (something I would bet money Lance will never do). He was the hero, beating the unbeatable Ullrich. While he is probably the best pure climber in the peleton, he doesn't stand a great chance to win the Tour again.
The TdF is in business for entertainment, and they hate having a clear favorite. They always try to rig the race against the percieved favorite, and to help whomever they want to see win. The 1997 course was custom built for a rouler like Jalabert- unfortunately for the French, Ullrich comes along and soundly beats everybody, with Richard Virenque in second place. So the French say, why don't we make the race really hilly, so our uber-climber Virenque can beat Ullrich? Good plan, until Virenque's team gets thrown out of the '98 Tour for doping. That leaves Pantani the best climber in the race, and he is able to beat Ullrich.
But the problem now is that Lance is a better climber than Ullrich and a better time trialist (by a lot) than Pantani. So if they make the race too flat, it becomes an Ullrich/Lance duel, and if they go too hilly, it becomes a Pantani/Lance duel. And Lance has the edge in either of those match-ups. He is simply the best all-around cyclist at this point, and is so balanced that he really can't be beaten by a specialist.
|good info T!||colker|
Mar 10, 2002 1:47 PM
|i read about his painfull recovery and all.. it may or not be a coincidence but it seems most of the great cycling champions face great adversity during their career. maybe anquetil and bartali escaped the sin...those champions had to fight the fortune wheel and proved they had some soul.|
|good info T!||key|
Mar 10, 2002 11:25 PM
|Its not really fair to compare the two any more, one is on the way up the other on the way out. Pantani needs to say these things to get himself motivated, in his mind he is the media darling and just can't accept not being in the lime-light.
Look at the Giro last year even with lot of prep he failed miserable, unfortunatley I think we have seen the end of his great climbing days. But it would be good to see he and LA go head to head again. It's the strangest duality because Pantani needs to talk s*&! to make himself feel good and LA needs the Trash talk to feed off and have some form of motivation.
Mar 10, 2002 11:48 PM
|is the shorter and hillier then '01, so unless Ullrich really drops his weight down he won't be much of the competition. The way it looks it'll probably be Lance/Simoni with some Pantani, can't wait to see mnt stages!|
Mar 11, 2002 6:34 AM
|I agree with you regarding how the TdF builds the course to challange certain riders. The process is somewhat political from what I've read.
The Lance story is a good one. I think the TdF guys like for him to win.