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Lance (urp) and Ullrich(30 posts)

Lance (urp) and UllrichElefantino
Mar 5, 2002 6:26 AM
From this morning's wires

Three-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong has been ruled out of this week's Tour of Murcia after coming down with a stomach bug.

The U.S. Postal team leader was due to make his first competitive appearance in Europe of the year in the classic, which gets underway on Wednesday, but has been weakened by a bout of gastro-enteritis.

Armstrong's absence further depletes a field already missing 1997 Tour de France champion and 2000 Sydney Olympics gold medallist Jan Ullrich of Telekom.

The German announced his withdrawal of the race on Monday after failing to recover from a nagging knee injury.

Ullrich also had to pull out of the Tour of Valencia late February due to the same injury. The Tour of Murcia is scheduled for March 6-10.

(c) AFP 2002
Lance who? Now George...mr_spin
Mar 5, 2002 8:23 AM
George Hincapie and the USPS "classics" team have been tearing up the peleton recently. USPS is poised to make a lot of noise this year in the spring classics. I can't wait for April to begin!
that's what I suspectcyclopathic
Mar 5, 2002 10:12 AM
LA is preparing for TdF and he doesn't wanna work for George, so he finds any reason to bail out. Of cause he expects Hincapie to work his a$$ for him on tour ;)
re: that's what I suspectDjudd
Mar 5, 2002 10:34 AM
Lance is a true "patron" of the peloton in the grand way of Hinault, Merckx et.al. He does what he deems necessary and doles out favors hardly ever. He's the papa bear and obviously relishes the role.
yeah butcyclopathic
Mar 5, 2002 12:11 PM
he is no match to Hinault, Merckx or Indurain let's face it

Besides he would be nothing without team and I'd like to see how far he'd get if keeps putting his teammates off
that's what I suspectmr_spin
Mar 5, 2002 1:06 PM
Just for the record, I hope you didn't get that interpretation about Lance from my post, because I didn't say that and I don't agree.
that's what I suspectmr_spin
Mar 5, 2002 1:16 PM
Just for the record, I hope you didn't get that interpretation about Lance from my post, because I didn't say that and I don't agree.
that's what I suspectTJeanloz
Mar 5, 2002 2:46 PM
It's George's job to work for Lance. It is not Lance's job to work for George. Lance owes George nothing. We all love George quite a bit, because he's shown that he's tough, but George is no superstar. He has what, 3 UCI wins in his career? (USPro, Ghent-W, and a Tour DuPont stage). No tour stages, no real classics. Sure, he's been on the podium a fair amount- but he is still decidedly an underling in the world of pro cycling. He's probably not even in the top 5 sprinters.

Lance has no reason to work for George- he gets paid to win the Tour, not to help George win some POS classic that no American is going to hear about anyway (will a Hincapie win at Paris-Roubaix make SportsCenter? I doubt it). George gets paid to help Lance win the Tour, and any classics wins he gets are an added bonus.
you could be right except...Djudd
Mar 5, 2002 3:37 PM
under the current formation I suspect we will never know how talented a sprinter George is. Zabel gets leadouts from the entire team (including Ullrich) during sprint stages. The same can be said for Cipo. Granted USPS is not interested in the sprint stages because of the limited knowledge by the US public. This does not diminish the possibility that George could be a first-class sprinter.
I'm not putting LA down, he does what he is supposed to do ,win the TdF. I just feel we could possibly get a more well rounded view to the neophtye public with a great sprinter.
I don't buy it...TJeanloz
Mar 5, 2002 3:44 PM
Great sprinters don't always need a lead out. Sure, Cipo and Zabel have trains to pull them home. But Kirsipuu, Abdujibkldaf(I can't spell it), Steels, even Robbie McEwen get better results than Hincapie with just as much (little)help.
re: I don't buy it...Djudd
Mar 5, 2002 3:56 PM
Maybe George needs to start slinging water bottles in the middle of sprints a la Steels (classic move) Really though maybe George doesn't have that last bit of drive when the elbows and off-line excursions start.
Speaking of Abdu (I'm not going to try it) I was at a stage of the Tour Dupont in Lynchburg, Va, it ended in sprint that he lost (I think). After the race I went up to him and was amazed at the size of his legs... from ankles to thighs I've never seen anything like it. Literally like tree trunks. My girlfriend at the time could not stop staring.
re: I don't buy it...TJeanloz
Mar 5, 2002 4:02 PM
He can throw whatever he wants if he can back it up with his legs- which Steels can, Hincapie can't.
TJ, look at results of TdF TTcyclopathic
Mar 5, 2002 5:23 PM
compare Telecom, ONCE team results vs USPS
why do you think none of the USPS rode at their best?
why Livingston doesn't talk to LA anymore?

the whole team works for one goal LA TdF win which I think is pretty pathetic. Yes they're paid to, but how much is enough to give up on own chance?
TJ, look at results of TdF TTTJeanloz
Mar 6, 2002 5:19 AM
Well, in my opinion, and it's just that, the place where the USPS team belongs in time trials is: last, second to last, third to last, fouth to last, fifth to last...eigth to last- and First.

You can think it's pathetic for the whole team to work for Lance's win- but for the dometiques, their Tour bonus is ~5-10X their normal salary. If they don't win the Tour- they don't get paid on the same magnitude. I think it would be pathetic and embarrasing for a domestique to hurt Lance's chance so that he could have his own chance. Like it or not, this is a team sport. If Lance (or any member of your team) wins, and you finish last, there's still the pride of winning for you- if Lance loses and you finish 10th, you still lost...
re: opinioncyclopathic
Mar 6, 2002 6:07 AM
>Well, in my opinion, and it's just that, the place where
>the USPS team belongs in time trials is: last, second to
>last, third to last, fouth to last, fifth to last...eigth
>to last- and First.

hmm if I am not mistaken Ekki won Olympic TT in Sidney (what place Lance got?) and yes others are the bunch of slow slugs (somehow they were much faster in '99 and '00).

meanwhile ONCE or Telecom would let their riders ride at full.

USPS is very dedicated team they were willing to sacrifice anything for Lance to win in tour, and LA rode for them in other events. But of cause he is too much of celebrity now to ride for someone else, right?

with respect to you comment on $$$ money is not everything, who cares how much you made in '01 when you're sending your resume out?
re: opinionTJeanloz
Mar 6, 2002 6:18 AM
There is a system in place. Team leaders are team leaders. Loyal and able leutenants step up. Nobody begrudges Tyler Hamilton for jumping into his own role as a team leader. But we would begrudge him if he had sandbagged his domestique duties at USPS so that he could roll a better placing for himself. Selfishness has no place in team sports. ONCE is a bad comparison because they had no leader in last year's Tour- it was effectively every man for himself. Telekom is a pretty good correllary of course, because they do have a solid team leader.

So compare the two teams (USPS and Telekom). Who's strategy worked? I remember seeing Lance in Yellow at the end...Telekom riders did better in the TT- but failed at what should have been their goal.
I think we're in violent agreementcyclopathic
Mar 6, 2002 6:36 AM
on the subject. All work for Lance Lance wins.

Thing is other riders have their objectives (which are not limited to $$$) and the way things worked LA would return favor by riding for them in other events. If he thinks he is too big for it now I am sure we'll see people bailing out of USPS team like rats from sinking ship. And he is not gonna get anywhere without team, don't you agree?
We agree on a lot,TJeanloz
Mar 6, 2002 6:46 AM
Lance can't win without a team- but it doesn't necessarily have to be the current team. For every Tyler Hamilton or Kevin Livingston that leaves, there are 5 guys willing and able to take their place. These guys should leave- if they can get a top ride with another team. Think how many guys have jumped ship already- and it hasn't really made an impact. 1st it was Jonathon Vaughters, then Livingston, then Hamilton. As long as Armstrong is able to find 8 good riders to put around himself, he will do fine- there's nothing magical about the 8 he's had.
re: We agree on a lot,cyclopathic
Mar 6, 2002 7:33 AM
Rolland Green turned them down. If Heras, Rubiera and Hincapie are gone I don't think what is left enough to win tour.

Anyways I hope Ullrich, Simoni, Pantani, LA will compete this year. Not that I wish LA loose I don't wanna see him win without any competition.
He is not doing Murcia to help George but...Bruno
Mar 5, 2002 3:51 PM
as part of his training. Someone at his level doesn't bail out without risking his training program. By missing a race he has to change his training schedule which may compromise his goal of winning the TdF.
injuriesishmael
Mar 5, 2002 11:16 AM
i hope this isnt going to end-up being the start of poor performances in the tour de france for lance and ulrich due to injuries or the inability to train before the race...
re: Lance (urp) and UllrichCARBON110
Mar 5, 2002 1:08 PM
The above posts are pure lame ass, lack of insight comments. Do you people put any thought into what you write or do just jot down anything that pops into your head so you can say something? I doubt any of you have even watched Indurain, Mercx or any other champion and don't have a clue what makes them different. Its illustrated by your insincere lack of knowledge and the ignorance depicted by your silly comments. Find something interesting to critique, like your education.
or your room temperature IQ nmcyclopathic
Mar 5, 2002 1:21 PM
Let's critique your spelling of "Merckx"Teacher
Mar 5, 2002 1:42 PM
Is is spelled "Merckx", not "Mercx". Join the Clueless Club!
HahhahahaCARBON110
Mar 5, 2002 3:03 PM
What wit! What eloquence! Outstanding gents! You really know how to illustrate my point - that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to cycling and what this forum is about, ahem.....thank you for your confirmation. I won't indulge in your immature behavior any more

cheers,
someone who is cooler than you!
Such great insights you offer as well. NMBrooks
Mar 5, 2002 3:07 PM
what are you blabbering a/?Woof the dog
Mar 5, 2002 3:18 PM
explain or die

Woof, the dog with the blemishes on his whiskers.
new Cherry1 incarnation?Djudd
Mar 5, 2002 3:39 PM
new Cherry1 incarnation?R-I-D-E
Mar 5, 2002 8:14 PM
Huge Hincapie fan here. But I don't feel sorry for him in the slightest about not having his team lead him out in sprints, or about LA not showing up for races such as these.

George knows his role, and guess what...he get's paid pretty darned well for it too. If he is displeased with his role, or supposed lack of support, he can show it come contract signing time.

RIDE
about MerckxPbOkole
Mar 6, 2002 8:05 AM
If any of you actually had read about Merckx's career you would know that he had some VERY talented riders working for him. They were forbidden from going for personal glory except in rare instances. They were on the team to work for him, period. If they didn't like it they left. He was also not very friendly with teammates because he didn't want personal relationships to interfere with his racing and winning. He didn't win his races without the team's help either. It has always been this way.