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I See My Post Was Not Only Misinterpreted, But It Was Heated(33 posts)

I See My Post Was Not Only Misinterpreted, But It Was Heatedcosmicallyconscience
Mar 2, 2002 4:45 AM
A few days ago, I posted a message about the destructiveness of the Sports Utility Vehicle. First of all, let me say how saddened I am that so many of you are willing to fight for the right to drive what will eventually be the devestating force that will send man to the history that the dinosaurs have now been a part of. As you are aware, we are all here for on common reason. That reason is the non polluting healthy vehicle that is the bicycle. My plea was to ride your driveway, your garage, the nations highways, and its parking lot of the destructive SUV, and ride to work. Ride to the store. You will feel better not only physically, but when you see you are reducing the amount of poullution and greenhouse gasses that are emitted from these monsters, you will also feel good about yourself and doing something that is truly for the good of all mankind. If you continue to drive these overpriced, overpolluting monsters, we as human beings are certain to our death when the ozone that protects us is gone. This is my plea. It is, as you can see cyling related. Do it for yourself, for your fellow brother, and the brotherhood of mankind. This is just one large battle that we must fight, but it is the only one that a bicycle can improve and help out with. The other battles include ridding the world of nuclear weapons and chemical weapons, wiping out aids, finding cleaner forms of energy to rid ourselves of fossil fuels and the nuclear waste that nuclear power leaves behind. We do have a large job ahead of us, however, if one person on the board is conviced that his or her SUV is destructive, and he or she properly disposes of it, then we have already started to win the battle. SUVs can be recycled and used for more logical reasons. Think about these words, and don't forget them.
Thank you.
you know what?merckx56
Mar 2, 2002 5:25 AM
a lot of cyclists drive suvs because they can fit all of their crap inside them. that's why i do. i'm glad you have an opinion, and that there is a place to relay that opinion to the masses, but there comes a point when you need to shut up! far too much time and server space has been devoted to your uninformed, slightly delusional, rantings. people will always drive what they want, where they want, when they want and until you are the leader of the free world, or some other cataclismic event occurs, go waste someone else's time!
Eliminating abstractsO
Mar 2, 2002 5:25 AM
I think that one of the biggest problems with human conceptions of existence is the absolute belief in abstract things. When children are young they are forced to imagine that certain paper and metal objects are equal to certain physical objects (ie $50=a puppy). Then more imaginative things such as laws, country, church, the stock market, etc. are given greater value than physical objects. One thing that humans seem to not reflect on is that if humans did not exist, the earth would still be here (without these human imagined realities). The planet does not need humans, but humans need the planet. People are always talking about how they "have rights." People do not "have" anything, but they sure like to imagine that they do. Laws are just funny little marks on pieces of dead trees.
FINALLY!!!! Someone knows the deal!merlinguy
Mar 2, 2002 7:21 AM
People do not "have" anything, but they sure like to imagine that they do
Bravo! Ditto!
I wonder what the tree-hugging dinosaurs postulated might cause their demise? All those meat eating T-Rex's, spewing those methane laced farts about, causing the ozone to become depleted. Or was it the size of the Brontosaurus?
-anything that big has to be bad. And look at how much they ate!! my god, there won't be anything left for the rest of us! or for future generations!
A meteor! who would've thunk it!
Your post has little to do with cyclingBirddog
Mar 2, 2002 7:37 AM
But, it has a lot to do with your personal politics and world view. As such it should have been posted on the other, non cycling related forum. So far the responses have little if anything to do with bicycles. Please put future posts in the proper category.

Politically incorrect and proud of it,
But I have a right!DrPete
Mar 2, 2002 7:50 AM
Just because you can doesn't mean you should. And I do find it funny that the phrase "I have a right" usually ends up being a weak argument for something that's destructive or annoying. The most common one I hear is that people have "a right" to smoke, which by convention means that litter laws do not apply and they can throw cigarette butts anywhere they want. The same with the SUV. People have a "right" to buy a Chevy Suburban for their family of 2 because they have some "need" for it, thereby justifying the 14 MPG fuel efficiency.

Should the environment be a consideration when buying a vehicle? Sure. My VW Passat has a huge trunk and with the addition of a Yakima roof rack carries everything I need it to. 25 City, 31 Highway. It also doesn't stick out of a standard parking space and it doesn't take up a whole lane.

As far as the post that started it all, I think it just got a little too elevated and extreme. Eloquence and big words are still a poor camouflage for a poorly thought-out argument. The real problem is getting people to think about the impact they have on the world around them, not to label them planet-destroyers for not recycling their SUV.

It's nice to rant a little sometimes, though.... :)
You get 14mpg w/a Suburban.STEELYeyed
Mar 2, 2002 8:27 AM
I,m lucky to get 12 highway.
I was guessing--thanks!(nm)DrPete
Mar 2, 2002 7:30 PM
Rights and responsibilities; the lost hability to decide...tempeteKerouak
Mar 2, 2002 8:38 AM
(Excuse my english, i am trying to express a notion very clear in my mind, except I find it difficult to say in english. (I am quebecer) Hope you will follow the idea enough!)

It makes me think when people use the main argumentation that they have a right, either as a legal rule or as a morale sense of "natural right" to do something OUT OF THE OMMISSION to regulate an activity.

When someone claims he CAN because it is not said to be impeached by law, then he/she takes away his/her responsibility to make a personal choice. As if one does not need to, if one leaves it to "the Law" to tell what we can or cannot do.

But the thing is that there are lots of activities that are not forbidden that are stupid or not for everyone to conduct...

-I am not taking a side on this SUV issue, but as an "obiter" or side opinion, yes, I am questionning our need to regulate guns, cars, or abortion or freedom to adopt children from the internet...

On one side, we (I must consider myself an american, but otherwise allow me to be human!) demand freedom as a basic principle, on the other we oppose our threats to freedom by the very fact that there is no LAW or rule to forbid us? Kind of contradictory. This is where the essence of Freedom is lost. Freedom is not the lack of rules. It is the Faith in our hability to communicate these rules as we conceive them. Communication and respect.

Not questionning the morality of an activity, because you CAN conduct it?
When you can avoid the questionning because someone is doing it for you; that is not a responsible attitude. That is the attitude of a child.

To say that you can pollute more than your share (not to say regular car drivers don't) because you need the space to carry the stuff comfortably BECAUSE IT IS NOT FORBIDDEN is like (to an extreme, I'll admit it, but I must make a point) selling cigarettes and alcohol to minors before any law forbid it. It is stupid and irresponsible, but you could. Not a responsible attitude.

Nobody wants or likes a condescending tap on the hand. So please see this as the expression of an opinion on a way of life, not an accusation. I live with myself, in the same world as you.

But I have a right!Shiekh Kammal Jakki
Mar 3, 2002 2:59 PM
Again, I'd like to thank those who write on this fine Forum and all other generous Americans who drive SUV's and thus provide the financial backing to keep al Qaida in operation.
May Allah bless you.
Eugene, Why do you post your drivel on this forum?GW
Mar 2, 2002 10:16 AM
I see you're sending this crap out at 4:45am.....pretty sad. Get a life kid but first get some sleep. There are no SUV's under your bed or in the closet. They're parked outside waiting for you to ride your Rollfast to the store. Thump,thump.
Post this in Non-cycling discussionsspookyload
Mar 2, 2002 10:39 AM
That is where it belongs. When a forum gives you a message board for the topic you want to discuss, it is rude to cross post it on purpose in the wrong forum.
Tell us a bit about yourself Eugene...STEELYeyed
Mar 2, 2002 10:54 AM
how old are you? what do you do for a living?
Don't get too worked up.cyclaholic
Mar 2, 2002 10:59 AM
One of the obvious consequences of our shameful waste of finite fossil fuels is that our behavior will be naturally corrected by limited supply. One day soon, the easy to access stores of petroleum will be used up and fuel production costs will jump dramatically. The implications for our society will be huge.

Outside of the realm of wastefulness, I also have a personal bias against SUV's because they needlessly take up too much space on the road. It's hard to share the road with them as they squeeze me farther to the right with each pass of my bicycle.

Don't fret, Eugene, as our unwise behavior will mostly serve to hasten our day of reckoning. When that day comes, the people who are hiding their heads in the sand will be forced to remove them.
let me tell you where you can put your Green Party BS...not Ralph Nader
Mar 2, 2002 1:00 PM
Don't bring your entire rhetoric of Green Party bull to this board and try to claim it's cycling related. You are just way too transparent. I'm definitely replacing my wife's old car with an SUV this year (although I have to admit that was my goal anyway). FYI Eugene, my wife and I already have 3 SUVs and looking forward to making it a grand slam. I truly despise people like you who espouse that holier than thou attitude. Eat sh!t and die you tree huggin' motherfu@ker.
let me tell you where you can put your Green Party BS...cosmicallyconscience
Mar 2, 2002 3:23 PM
I can only pray to Mother Earth that you will see the evil of you ways. Three SUVs, and you are calling me an extremeist?
Issues. lots of issues.DrPete
Mar 2, 2002 7:34 PM
At least you're capable of a rational argument. Did you ever wonder why you need 4 SUVs, and why you're so defensive about it?
re: I See My Post Was Not Only Misinterpreted, But It Was HeatedMr. F. Sanford
Mar 2, 2002 1:04 PM
My truck eats more gas than 10 Suburbans or 24 Vipers or 14 Roadmasters or 8 F-450's with the V10. So what? You sit there complainin' about some dead dinosaurs, They're Dead!! I say we
use ém up, they don't know the damn difference! What the hell you doing to save the earth, boy? As for me, I'm the best damn thing for the environment. I take what's already there and make treasure out of it. But I'll gladly share some of it and give you your next bicycle, If you shut the hell up!!
re: I See My Post Was Not Only Misinterpreted, But It Was Heatedcosmicallyconscience
Mar 2, 2002 3:26 PM
I ride my bike. That is the first thing I do to help save the environment. I don't drive. I don't even believe getting on a bus. One day you will be with the dinosaurs. I just home human kind isn't there with you.
They are right about one thing...cyclaholic
Mar 2, 2002 3:39 PM
Eugene, this isn't the correct place for these kinds of posts. While they are wrong about everything else, they are correct to point out that this board is for cycling issues only.
This is a cycling issue.cosmicallyconscience
Mar 2, 2002 4:06 PM
I am promoting cycling, cleaner air to ride in, and less vehicles on the road to deal with. I am sorry you missed those points. They were probably not as strong of statements as to the message death to the SUV as it is destroying our Earth. I can only urge you to make these important choices. You love your bikes, now get rid of your SUVs and ride more. There, it has been stated. This is a cycling issue.
Eugene Kaudill
Thank you Eugene.GW
Mar 2, 2002 4:15 PM
You truley are the enlightened one the prophets spoke of. Thanks to you we now understand the error of our ways. SUV's be damned. Long live motherearth and death to the exploiters of the environment. Four wheels bad, two wheels better. Berkeley uber alles!!
I think I hear your physchiatrist calling you...Crankist
Mar 2, 2002 5:33 PM
...from the Mother Ship.
Zappa said it bestjakart
Mar 2, 2002 6:34 PM
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the univerese. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe" Frank Zappa
SUVs are kinda a wasteFaceit
Mar 2, 2002 9:00 PM
I am not a blowhard environmentalist but, SUVs are a bit irresponsible. They are more a fashion accessory rather than a necessity for most people. They consume far too much gas and many of those who drive them cannot handle such a big vehicle.
It is like a big penis contest when one manufacturer tries to build a bigger vehicle than the other. The Ford Expedition and the comparable Chevys are ridiculous. If you are a ranger or a carpenter that needs it, then go for it. But all I see is some little suburban housewife driving these monstrousities who can barely see over the wheel.
Mark my words, sometime in the future when the energy crisis reaches its peak (and it will), these vehicles will be banned. It is just a matter of time until "the well runs dry" and if you think otherwise you are kidding yourself. More people should ride bikes or a Honda, like me.
If you need space, buy a hatchback or a wagon. Plus, when gas prices went higher a few months ago, all you SUV dirvers bithched and moaned that it cost $50-100 per week to drive those bloated wastes of resources. Idiots
SUVs are kinda a wastecosmicallyconscience
Mar 2, 2002 9:55 PM
It isn't at all like a big penis. Penis's don't pollute, well at least if they are disease free. An SUV doesn't have to have a disease, and it still pollutes. Penis
s are natural. SUVs are simply destructive. I say a gallon of gas needs to be $4 to $5 to help the environment.
SUVs are kinda a wasteFaceit
Mar 2, 2002 10:04 PM
I think you missed the point. Big Penis Contest means that the companies irresponsibly create bigger vehicles to out do the other rather than out of necessity. I happen to agree with you on this point, but as I said I am not a blowhard environmentalist.
A lot of people on this board enjoy their "toys" and a SUV fits their image and they will not allow anyone to take that away.
SUVs are kinda a wastecosmicallyconscience
Mar 3, 2002 4:57 AM
Is image really worth the end of mankind as we know it? Seems very selfish to me!
why you shouldn't drive an suv:Woof the dog
Mar 2, 2002 11:54 PM
What an interesting thread!!!!!!! Its funny how all the suv drivers get defensive. They know its wrong but in order to feel good about their life they say that a post like that should not belong here etc. etc. etc. How is it NOT cycling related? The only reason it shouldn't be here is that it causes the unnecessary bickering because people are just ignorant. They want to be good deep inside, but they don't try.

It is quite clear people give themselves the right to drive these vehicles. As I look at it, it all comes down to a question why should we try to preserve the environment. Are we uhm...destructive by nature or not. I guess I rephrased Hobbes' ego stuff vs. other philosophers. It is quite clear that humans are NOT complete egoists who don't give a flying sh!t about what happens, though from reading these messages I am not too sure it is true. To look at it in an objective way - polluting the environment is not good, polluting it at a higher rate just because it is a lot of fun to drive SUVs is even worse. I guess those people who drive SUVs even though they could do without are simply ignorant and don't realize that humans are a part of nature, even if they live in a brick house etc. Polluting environment will definitely catch up with us or our children, its not like it is going to go away. I am sure the effects include global warming (which is already happening), crop failure, etc. Its just a matter of time, so it simply makes sense to recycle, produce less waste, spend less fuel. There is no way around that one, no matter how you rationalize it.

I don't think I will have kids 'cause that means miserable life for them. All the SUV drivers can keep on living hiding their guilty conscience, I just gave up on them long ago. It is useless to say anything to dumb-dumbs, especially if it is the majority. I simply can't wait until all the fuel is used up though. SIMPLY CAN'T WAIT!!! Oh please doG! It will make my life less comfortable, but at least my conscience will be clean.

And save your insults for someone else, my skin is too thick for this topic. I could care less a/ what you think, just don't expect sympathy when you can't afford gas anymore.


Woof, the correct dog.
why you shouldn't drive an suv:cosmicallyconscience
Mar 3, 2002 5:05 AM
I couldn't have said it better myself, although I do have to call you one one point. You can't wait until all the fuel is burned up. That might be too late for mankind and mother earth. You see, if we just stop driving now, we can stop moving the clock of the distruction of mother earth closer to doomsday. It isn't just SUVs, it is all cars. That is the goal in the long run. Right now the fight is a surgical strike. Take out those that do the most damage, but once we succeed, it is only logical we take out all cumbustiable engines. Stop driving, and start pedaling. If you have a family, you buy a Burley trailer and you move around that way. Let's start moving the clock in the reverse direction.
no, thats a bit overboardWoof the dog
Mar 3, 2002 11:19 AM
Public transportation? maybe, but burley trailers? You are too radical.
no, thats a bit overboardcosmicallyconscience
Mar 3, 2002 12:07 PM
Not really. They are a great way to transport younger members of the family that can't yet pedal to a level acceptable for efficient transportation.
GET INVOLVED http://www.sierraclub.orgcosmicallyconscience
Mar 3, 2002 5:57 AM
For more informations about an organization I am part of, and you can too, please visit Also be sure to visit your local chapters page. California riders your local chapter is at

It is sad that all of you people don't see that I am celebrating the bicycle. One of the purest forms of transportation, enviromental friendly, a remarkable machine. It can be used to save Mother Earth.