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TO ALL SUV DRIVERScosmicallyconscience
Feb 27, 2002 5:06 PM
For once and for all it is time to outlaw the SUVs. They are out of control. Not only that but they are a bigger threat to our lives than Al Quaida ever came close too. They are polluters. They are eating up our natural resources at an alarming rate. They are destroying acres and acres of forest for new oil find. They are destroying and will lead to the death of our oceans. Remember the Exxon Valdese accident? At this rate, all life in the ocean will be dead in ten year. They are producing Greenhouse gasses at an alarming rate. This in turn is destroying the shield that protects us daly from deadly radiation, the ozone. All of this, and for what? Social status? No social status in the world is worth the death of mother earth. SUV drivers and manufactuers have us on a crash course with this destiny. We can of course change that. Stop driving and buying SUVs. If you own one recycle it. If you still lease or owe on one, stop your payments to the bank. Don't let corporate greed take over the saftey of the earth. It is time to be environmentally friendly. It is time we end the life of the evil SUV before it ends ours. Please don't censor this. This is important to get out.
What are you 'on'??coonass
Feb 27, 2002 5:34 PM
My Honda Passport gets 20mpg in the city, >23mpg (<70mph)on the Interstate...If you want to get on your soapbox, jump on they have a truck/suv that gets better than 12mpg in the city?? if so, the owners don't live in my area...Why hasn't the carburetor been improved in the last 50 yrs or the combustion engine? Big OIL, and Detroit!!!!
If we were getting 100mpg, then that gallon would be costing us $20....We're going to get SCREWED no matter what and they'll still be screaming as to what limited resources we have and how much it cost them to produce that gallon....! They are selling Bridges and we're standing in line buying them.
adolescent tree hugger alertGW
Feb 27, 2002 5:50 PM
Do your parents know you're using the computer for nonhomework related purposes?
Jesus CHRIST I'm tired of stuff like thisRetro
Feb 28, 2002 8:15 AM
How did the notion get started, out there in redneck land, that concern for the environment is childish, backward, wrong, anti-economy or any of the other idiot claims people (read "conservative Republicans," generally) make? How can an intelligent person NOT be aware of the rate at which we're using stuff up and creating pollution?
Feb 28, 2002 9:54 AM
You just use all of your mental energy thinking about what your going to buy next.
Relax.... This is a bike forumGW
Feb 28, 2002 10:57 AM
and not the place for juvenile political ranting. CC's plea shouldn't be here. It is naive and deserves the reaction it has recieved. Your jumping to his defense and labeling those who slammed him as redneck "conservative Republicans" is equally lame. Passion for the environment is fine but santimonious little twits deserve to be put in their place. If you and CC wish to discuss the evils of the real world please do so elsewhere or expect the smart ass feedback your drivel deserves.
Something to do with cyclingDrPete
Feb 27, 2002 6:22 PM
Well, as far as the first message of the thread... hmm. OK, not sure what that was about. But anyway, I would like to add, from a cycling standpoint, that I don't like SUVs. I've had more near-misses and redneckish "get off the road" remarks coming from the driver's side of SUVs.
I don't know if it's a documented thing, but it seems that the bigger the vehicle gets, the less considerate the driver seems to be, and the more I hope I'll be on the road after the encounter. Maybe it's just an East Coast thing (just as likely).
There, at least the discussion is now cycling-related. :)
Yeah, could your Bozo lecture BE more boring?Crankist
Feb 27, 2002 6:55 PM
Or on the wrong board?
Is this a quote from Al Gore's Book...Geof
Feb 27, 2002 7:23 PM
Get a clue, do some real research, and guit quoting CNN...
hey, ed begley...merckx56
Feb 27, 2002 7:46 PM
blow me! i drive a gmc jimmy and ride everyday. if you have an opinion, that's great, but if you make claims about the amount of pollution that a certain type of vehicle is causing, have some numbers to back them up! the best sell cars are the ford taurus and the toyota camry, as well as the ford f-150 pickup. the sheer numbers of these cars that are sold, by far, dwarfs suv sales. just because you don't like a type of vehicle doesn't mean that they pollute any more or less than any other type of vehicle! my 2000 jimmy is serviced at regular intervals and uses only premium fuel, and i promise you that it puts out less emissions than a ten year old honda civic. the government mandates how many ppm of carbon emiisions a car can expel. the manufacturers have to abide by this or they can't sell the car!
Feb 27, 2002 7:48 PM
The parking lot for our Tuesday night ride is almost always about 80% SUV's. I guess it's because they are larger, safer, and can carry more bikes.
they are not safer (nm)salmonwheel
Feb 28, 2002 7:16 AM
why not safer?Dave Thomas
Feb 28, 2002 8:27 AM
A huge truck (SUV) is gonna win in a head on with a VW Bug...simple physics.
So you win means safer, is this a sport to yousalmonwheel
Feb 28, 2002 9:51 AM
Okay Dave,

Get outside yourself here. Yes if you, in your SUV (especially the largeones), have a head on with someone else of course they will get hurt much worse than you. That is part of the problem, it makes the roads less safe. Why are cars required to have safety equipment if we produce an entire class of passenger vehicles that make those safety features useless in collisions. The whole idea of civilization, government, regulation, society, law enforcement is to get outside of the biggest guy gets everything mentality. Society implies something beyond the individual. Should I drive a tank then to make sure I am the safest, maybe we should all commute in semis. Look up the statistics on SUV's the accident fatality rate is extremely high. They were not built right, they were out of balance and flipped over easier, handled poorly etc. Especially in high speed driving.

I must admit that some of the safety problems with SUV's have been improved, roll overs primarily, but it took fifteen years. In this time everyone thought they were safer, and 100's of law suits took place with silence orders as part of the pay off agreements. During the Reagan era NHTSA had a pro auto industry administration that chose not too address any of the safety issues, nor did they require any level of candor from the auto industry. If it sells it must be good, no matter what was the basic philosophy.

I don't care what you drive, but let's not perpetuate myths that have been provided through auto industry advertising.
So you win means safer, is this a sport to youGone Fission
Feb 28, 2002 2:15 PM
It is amazing to me to hear people go back almost 20 years and blame Reagan for whatever ill they are campaigning against. We're coming off 8 years of Clinton/Gore. What did they do about these perceived problems? Nothing.

The SUVs are safer. Don't drive 'em like Starsky and Hutch and they're fine.
Safer for who?Kristin
Feb 28, 2002 11:20 AM
You? Someones 16 year old, when he or she (while joking with friends) plows into that VW bug? As long as the SUV is never at fault, I guess its okay that its bigger and stronger.

Now, I'm not saying I hate SUV' all! But they do have a much higher roll over rate, and as a bigger vehicle, are more dangerous TO other drivers. I do believe that their safety is legitimately in question. I personally don't own one, because I can't justify the cost of the vehicle. They are not, by far, the best rated cars on the road...and I go by ratings. I don't care about size or strength. I just hope I never get hit by an SUV.
I used to think sort of the same thingLone Gunman
Feb 27, 2002 7:49 PM
when I had the nightmare that I might own a minivan or stationwagon some day. I declared I would be a beaten man if I ever did. Pssst... in case you weren't aware thats all an SUV is. Same vehicle, different body style. They all run on gas and are designed to haul more than 4 people at a time.
not the same as minivans or wagonssalmonwheel
Feb 28, 2002 7:23 AM
I don't think this is the place for rants about SUV's like tis one was posted, but the SUV denial and justification is scary. Accident fatality rates with SUV's are extremely high, go look it up. They do not meet air quality standards for passenger vehicles like minivans and wagons. They make it less safe to be on the road in a more standard vehicle. And the firestone thing, was primarily a Ford thing except Ford has a huge powerful lobby that directed the congressional inquiies. Explorers were rolling at an alarming rate before those firestone tires failed. Go look up campaign contribution information. Go look at NHTSA documents. It's all there, but people like what they like and justify it. I'm not saying there is no use for SUV type vehicles, but let's be honest. Social responsibility is not a dirty phrase.
why is my Explorer rates a Low emissions vehicle then? (nm)Dave Thomas
Feb 28, 2002 8:29 AM
no so...SUVs have clearance and can be driven off-road (nm)Dave Thomas
Feb 28, 2002 8:28 AM
Feb 27, 2002 8:06 PM
It runs a whole lot deeper than just the Suburban Assault Vehicles that terrorize our nieghborhoods and communities. It's how "civilization" has evolved. Read Michio Kaku about levels of civiliztion. We aren't even past phase 1.
Dont worry, we'll all be riding segways soon.firstrax
Feb 27, 2002 8:17 PM
And that leads me to my next bike issue........Crankist
Feb 27, 2002 8:28 PM
I wonder how the nattering nabobs feel about....Zeke Twerpy
Feb 27, 2002 8:28 PM
I wonder how the nattering nabobs feel about the gas mileage and emmissions of their favorite ride -- the VW Microbus? Which is wayyyyyyy worse than typical SUVs (about 8 mpg IIRC).

Our Volvo 740 wagon gets worse mileage than our Explorer.
Feb 27, 2002 10:46 PM
and I like my SUV cause it's so big that it allows me to run the tree-hugging-stinky ass pitouli wearing-beatupvwthingdriving-idiot-taliban sympathizer straight into that tree he wants so badly to hug. hastens the process, if you will.
That's real intelligent - NOT!!!Brad S
Feb 28, 2002 11:05 AM
I think some natering nabobs ride bikes instead.salmonwheel
Feb 28, 2002 10:08 AM
Exxon ValdeseGW
Feb 27, 2002 8:35 PM
I seem to remember that some oil leaked into the ocean but I'm not quite sure who was responsible. Did the boat hit the SUV or did the SUV hit the boat? Please enlighten me.
Feb 27, 2002 9:46 PM
Exxon Valdesejp2
Feb 28, 2002 5:52 AM
the operator was drunk and i believe on a cell phone at the time.

for a total ban=boats,suvs,cell phone, alcohol.
Exxon ValdeseIndianarider
Feb 28, 2002 6:16 AM
Actually I believe the ship in front of him swerved to miss a pot hole and didnt call it out.
Exxon ValdeseSnowBlind
Feb 28, 2002 6:34 AM
Whew, at least I can still smoke dope and carry a gun...
You guys are killing me! Thanks. LOL (nm)Chen2
Feb 28, 2002 7:29 AM
Lets kill all the livestock toospookyload
Feb 27, 2002 8:38 PM
I did see on msnbc this exact topic discussed. It was brought to bear that the livestock in the world do more damage to the earths ozone layer than all the cars in the world. It would seem the methane gas created in their stool and flatulents is more deadly than car exhaust. This is particualarly true with sheep.

While you are at it we should outlaw forest fires too. They put megatons of polution in the air annually during peak fire seasons. The side benifits of this would be more trees for you to hug as the earth turns into a huge green house.
get rid of them allAnother Far Left Wing Liberal
Feb 28, 2002 4:38 AM
This guy is probably one of the fascist UCLA students who protest everytime a republican tries to come to their campus to speak. No wonder Gore decided to lecture there.

These hypocrital buffoons spew their nonsensical drivel endlessly and yet seem to have forgotten the most basic US freedom of all, freedom of speech. If they had it there way it would be a Hitler like state with no republican views or conservative speech allowed as clearly demonstrated by the last 4 or 5 times a conservative has attempted to speak on their campus. Hopefully someday somene will have the opportunity to drive their SUV right through the middle of these Nazi like hypocrits. :-)

Oh and by the way, if your a Vewgan take a wild guess what does more damage to the worlds environment, hunters, fisherman or the clearcitting of rainforests and wetlands, and coniferous forests for agricultural non-meat farming?
Are you really that closed minded??Brad S
Feb 28, 2002 11:11 AM
Actaully, more rainforest and wetlands are cleared every year for beef production and coffee production than agricultural farming, but believe what you will.

And isn't UCLA students protesting a speaker free speech also? They are just letting their views be known. And do you really think "Far Left Wing Liberals" are similar at all to the Nazi political party? What ideas and ideology do they share? Please enlighten me.

You statement about running people over w/ an SUV is more Nazi like than anything I can think of.
partly true.... butsalmonwheel
Feb 28, 2002 10:06 AM
a molecule of Methane can hold more heat than CO2 but the relative contribution to the greenhouse effect is much less than CO2. Rice fields also produce large amounts of methane and this is being addressed and ignored in different areas.

By the way, could we please stop the "well we might as well outlaw everything, but since we can't we should just ignore everything" speak. The problem with the greenhouse effect isn't that greenhouse gases are being produced naturally or otherwise, it's that since the industrial revolution we have augmented the natural production to a level that exceeds the capacity of the sinks mainly the ocean.
"Destroy all violent people!" Still, SUVs make no sense...(nm)tempeteKerouak
Feb 28, 2002 5:52 AM
EARTH FIRST!!!!Cima Coppi
Feb 28, 2002 6:05 AM
We'll mine the other planets later.

re: TO ALL SUV DRIVERSBikingViking
Feb 28, 2002 8:13 AM
Your passionate call to ban/recycle SUV's is a bit off the mark. Just because you think a LEGAL product sold in a free market economy is bad, doesn't mean we should ban them. Perhaps we should ban cars altogether because over 50,000 people die because of them each year AND they are evil "polluters".

The jury is still out on the allegation of "global warming", so I prefer not to side with extremism on either side. It MAY be happening, but Mother Nature tends to pollute herself pretty well from time to time, Mount Pinatubo, for example.
Human beings are not a scourge on this planet, as much as the extreme environmental crowd would have the public believe.
Oil drilling has come so FAR into the future since the 1950's. The days of fields with pumps and pollution everywhere are gone. Horizontal drilling has become a safe way to extract oil from "Mother Earth". Do I believe that we should explore alternat fuels? Absolutely!!! But the reason I do is so we can tell the Saudi's to kiss our collective a$$es when we don't need their oil anymore.

Amen (nm)CRM
Feb 28, 2002 8:30 AM
Feb 28, 2002 12:39 PM
Let's set the record straight on just one small detail. Vehicle emissions which are mandated by EPA based on ppm concentrations and precentages ignore the fact that a larger engine produces a correspondingly larger VOLUME of exhaust, therefore greater pollution. It is a fallacy to state that an SUV with a 5-litre engine produces the same amount of pollution as a Civic with a 1.6-litre, even though they meet the same requirements.
Feb 28, 2002 1:20 PM
Warning! computer geek post.SnowBlind
Feb 28, 2002 2:15 PM
That is what happens when you follow a null pointer.


Oy, I crack me up.
I LOVE My SUVSlipstream
Feb 28, 2002 2:23 PM
It has never met a gas station it doesn't like...
It always takes me where I want to go, when its working...
I can sit up really high and see everything, just like a trucker...
The repair costs are so high that I just leave it parked which is why I ride a bike or walk...
When it is parked is doesn't use any gas or cause any environmental damage...
But, man, it sure is pretty to look at--I just love it...
BTW--my wife thinks I was stupid for buying it in the first place.
This cracks me up....Largo
Feb 28, 2002 4:12 PM
Sport Utility Vehicle?????
Ever try to haul a load of plywood in your X-Terra? NOT!!
So its not ver utilitarian.
They roll when you try to corner too hard, so not very sporty, but they sell like hotcakes, so Detroit keeps packing them out LOL!!
They are no more good or evil than any other rig out there.
I just chuckle when i see my friends ponying up for a $30k vehicle.
Drive a beater, and save your money for more important things, like bikes, and going on trips to gret riding locales like Peru!
re: TO ALL SUV DRIVERSShiekh Kammal Jakki
Feb 28, 2002 5:45 PM
Please, America, keep driving your SUV's. The new Ford Excursion is especially nice, really makes those miles across the Saudi desert fly by for me. In order to complete our Islamic Jihad against the decadent West we must keep selling as much oil as possible to our best customers, the United States of America. You people are so much more generous and cooperative than, say, those cheap Italians driving around in little Fiat Unos. 45 mpg! At that rate we'll never own Italy--but we are already planning to convert Monticello to a major DC-area Wahhabi mosque. Thank you, Americans and may Allah bless you.
does your computer use electricity?Dutchy
Feb 28, 2002 8:10 PM
I hope the guy who started this thread has a solar powered computer otherwise his whole argument is shot to pieces.
Does he realise how much pollution is generated from making electricity?

Either way he is quite obviously at the WRONG forum. This is a cycling forum.

Suburban Uncool Vehiclesjakart
Mar 1, 2002 1:49 AM
Title says it all. Most folks have 'em for that reason, 'cause their cool, (in a pigs eye). Yeah yeah I know it's the safety for the person inside. Shoot some of the biggest yangs that drive are in pickups and SUVs'. They drive them like they are weapons. Hey man it is America home of the brave free and the land of conspicuous over consumption. If the government had any balls they would rein in the corporate pigs and force them to bring up the mileage of individual vehicles not just the whole fleet. " the rights to you are bought and sold and you will do as you are told po-jamma people' Frank Zappa. (paraphrase) Here's another good one from Frank "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the univerese. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe" Full Moon Insomnia