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fat burning(14 posts)

fat burninghinaults dog
Feb 22, 2002 5:08 AM
i know their have been some people
interested in this topic an article in
cycling (uk) describes bonk/hunger knock
rides, heres the gist of the article-
a good way to enhance the body's fat burning
capacity- an overnight fast go out first thing on
a couple of cups of black coffee NO carbs.
start takin on carbs at around 25gs p/h
after about 30/40 mins. rides should last 3-5 hours
and are best performed on consecutive days.
Intensity- "press on the pedals hard enough to feel it
without hurting" and try to avoid sudden changes in effort
try to sleep following the ride, and reduce caffeine
consumption in between sessions.
john
re: fat burningWayne
Feb 22, 2002 5:55 AM
That may be an excellent way to up the % of fat burned but I don't see why you would necessarily go to the point of bonking. That seems to me to provide a stress to the body that is conterproductive and probably unnesessary. I don't think there is any evidence that by bonking you increase the % of fats used at a given sub-maximal effort level during subsequent rides and therefore decrease the chance of bonking again. On the other hand, there is pretty good evidence that you'll increase the % of fats you're burning at a given submaximal effort by:
1) Fasting (Longer it's been since you've eaten > % fat burned)
2) Riding Easy (Easier you go > the % of fats used)
3) Riding Longer (As the time of exercise increases you > % of fat being used at the same intensity level)
4) Take caffeine (although I don't think the evidence of > fat burning with the use of caffeine is quite as strong as it was once thought to be)
re: fat burninghinaults dog
Feb 22, 2002 10:23 AM
i don't do it and don't intend
to (have not raced in 12 yrs)
im just passing on stuff u.s
posters may not have access to.
i think the point of "fat mobilised
training" is to 'train' the body to use fat
as an energy source not to lose weight.
the bod that contributes to the piece
is a nutritional expert who works for
science in sport seems to think that caffeine has
a "positive effect on fat metabolism".
i was unclear about the bonk it is not
intended to go that far its just how this
type of training is known.
john
re: fat burningWayne
Feb 22, 2002 5:56 AM
That may be an excellent way to up the % of fat burned but I don't see why you would necessarily go to the point of bonking. And if the goal is bonking why consume any carbohydrate at all? That seems to me to provide a stress to the body that is conterproductive and probably unnesessary. I don't think there is any evidence that by bonking you increase the % of fats used at a given sub-maximal effort level during subsequent rides and therefore decrease the chance of bonking again. On the other hand, there is pretty good evidence that you'll increase the % of fats you're burning at a given submaximal effort by:
1) Fasting (Longer it's been since you've eaten > % fat burned)
2) Riding Easy (Easier you go > the % of fats used)
3) Riding Longer (As the time of exercise increases you > % of fat being used at the same intensity level)
4) Take caffeine (although I don't think the evidence of > fat burning with the use of caffeine is quite as strong as it was once thought to be)
Explain please...muncher.
Feb 22, 2002 8:26 AM
Your point 1).

I have never understood this - why buring fuel is not buring fuel full stop. It suggests to me (to extend the theory) that if one goes full out for an hour one will burn less calories than at an easy pace for the same time. Can this really be true?

What evidence is this of which you speak?

Hopeing for a major breakthrough, M.
Explain please...Wayne
Feb 22, 2002 9:39 AM
Don't confuse total calories burned with the relative amount of those calories coming from fat rather than carbohydrate. My response was only in terms of increasing the % of fats. You're right, the harder you go the more total calories you will burn but also the lower the percentage of those calories will be from fat. However at the higher effort level you could still absolutely exceed the number of calories from fat as at the much lower intensity (where you're burning a greater % of fat calories but less calories overall) which would result in more fat loss overall (but you've also depleted you're muscle and liver glycogen stores which would not have happened as much at a lower intensity since you would have been relying on fat more). In general at the lower ends of effort that provide an adaptation to endurance exercise (like 50-65% of Vo2max) you'll be burning about 50/50 carbs to fat ratio, as you're intensity level increases to around lactate threshold (about 90% of Vo2max in a trained athlete) you'll be burning almost all carbs and no fat.
There's plenty of science published on this kind of stuff, you can do searches on PubMed or get a good exercise physiology book (I think G.A. Brooks authors one of the best ones). Be careful though, alot of the basic exercise phys. books are woefully behind the times esp. when it comes to this type of thing.
Well that's pretty comprehensive, thanks, but....muncher.
Feb 22, 2002 9:43 AM
Is it not the case that even if one is using 90% "carb energy", rather than fat, providing one does not replace soon after exercise with new food, the fat will be broken down and liberated to replace the depleted carb stores?
Well that's pretty comprehensive, thanks, but....Wayne
Feb 22, 2002 10:18 AM
No, fat can not be converted into carbs. That is why when people are starving they breakdown their muscles, which can be converted to carbs. This is necessary because nervous tissue can only use carbs for energy so you got to get them from somewhere. That's also why you feel light headed, dizzy, unable to think straight, etc. when you're bonking. There's no or very little glucose in your blood for your brain to use. You need to eat to replace your carbs or you're body will get some from catabolizing your muscle. It is true the harder you go the greater will be the increase in you're metabolism after exercise and that will probably be largely fueled by fat oxidation.
Well that's pretty comprehensive, thanks, but....SnowBlind
Feb 22, 2002 1:42 PM
You must be joking, what do you think the body does fat storage for? Good looks?
Fat is just carbs with a glycogen molecule put on the end.

Please quote ANY source (www.journalofirreproducableresults.com for example) that fat can not be converted into carbs.
Protien to carbs is do-able, but that is an ugly process that the body does rather than die.
Well that's pretty comprehensive, thanks, but....Wayne
Feb 23, 2002 12:09 PM
Are you sure we're talking about the same thing? Fat of course can be oxidized into energy (ATP) and that is the main source of energy for most cells most of the time, thats why we store it. But fat can not be converted to glucose (a carbohydrate), and this is the only source of energy for nervous tissue (other than Ketones from muscle catabolization).
It sounds like a temporary fix..Lone Gunman
Feb 22, 2002 7:40 AM
for a longer term problem. How long will this last before you are back to where you were before trying this? What if you don't drink coffee? Sounds like a fat burner diet scam to me that could do short term harm than good.
Fat burns in a Carbohydrate FlameC-mond
Feb 22, 2002 7:51 AM
fats require intermediates generated in carbohydrate breakdown for their continual catabolism for energy.

If you don't have any carbs you run the risk of increasing the acid quality of the body fluids to toxic levels.
Minimal carbs then the rate of fatty acid breakdown would probably increase- just enough for the carb flame. But this could be dangerous so just watch it.

Makes sense, I bet it works as long as you keep the intensity/ heart rate down.
re: Going out on an empty stomach.guido
Feb 22, 2002 11:42 AM
Just as described in your post, that's always been my fate on organized rides like Hottern Hell Hundred. Get there the night before, eat a nice dinner with lots of carbs, awake early, skip breakfast and get to the starting line, ride 40 minutes to the second rest stop, eat bananas, oranges, cookies, ride another hour or so, stop and eat some more, finish the century, go out for pizza that night.

The theory emerged: going out on an empty stomach uses the glycogen stored up in the muscles from whatever carbos you ate the night before. The fat kicks in during the 40 minutes or so it take for the glycogen to be used up. Before these stores are gone and bonk sets in, they get replenshed with fresh carbos from the fruits and sugar from the second rest stop, and you can keep going. If this burns alot of fat, so much the better!
Start hot burning fire, throw big chunks of fat in fire...Barnyard
Feb 22, 2002 12:45 PM
That ought to burn the fat.