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Thoughts on 2 frames(11 posts)

Thoughts on 2 framesSoup
Feb 13, 2002 7:34 AM
whatsup everyone.
I'm looking at two different frames to replace my current ride, a '97 Specialized m2 Allez. What I want in the new frame is a very stiff front end but with some damping (from the fork)and a compliant seatstay area to give some comfort on those century plus rides.
I'm looking at the khs flite 2000 (6000 aluminum frame with carbon seatstays) with a Reynolds ouzo pro fork(carbon steerer). Or, a Cannondale Caad 5 road frame with their Slice Si fork (aluminum steerer, made by time).
I'm looking for some input on both of these choices. I'm 6 foot 170 lbs. Bike use will be for heavy training (lots of climbing) and racing in colorado.
Thanks
Frame flexNessism
Feb 13, 2002 8:34 AM
Vertical frame flex in the rear stays of a typical double diamond frame is next to nothing. Some claim to be able to feel a slight difference with carbon stays but I wouldn't expect any significant benifit ride wise. The fork on the other hand does move a fair amount and will have a significant effect on ride.
Frame flexSoup
Feb 13, 2002 8:42 AM
Yeah I realize that their really isn't that much flex in the seatstays. I think that Carbon will take alot of high frequency vibration away though. Take a pen and hit it against CF, it makes a dull thud and the energy of the pen coming off the frame is reduced. Take the same pen and hit it against aluminum, it makes a high ping and comes back with more energy.
So I think that Carbon stays are functional, how much though? Could depend on many factors, so some designs may be useful others may not. Newer aluminum frames have a much more compliant ride than the old school straight guage frames, this is due to tubing advances in butting, internal diameter etc...
this topic has been discussed many timesTig
Feb 13, 2002 9:47 AM
Use the search function of this forum and read the past threads on CF seat stays.

CF stays are not designed to be flexible, but to dampen vibrations without sacrificing rear triangle stiffness. Any decent frame builder can design Ti, aluminum, or steel seat stays to absorb vibration and even provide extra vertical compliance, but sometimes at the cost of rear triangle stiffness. CF stays weigh slightly more then aluminum ones, yet lighter than most steel.

From the guys I ride with: CADD 5's are known to ride smoother in the seat than CADD 4's or 3's by those who've owned them both. The CADD 5 is still a very stiff bike, but improved over past C-dales.

The only way to really test them is to have identical bikes, one with CF seat stays and one without. Ride both bikes with the stays somehow hidden for a blind test. Far too many people trash or praise them without ever even riding a bike with them! The best feedback I've heard so far came last week from a guy I ride with who replaced his Klein Quantum Race with a Q-Pro Carbon frame. The components were transferred from his old frame to the new one, and the geometry is the same. The other differences are the fork, the new ZR 9000 alloy in the frame, and headset. After riding it since December, he said he could feel only a slight improvement in road buzz felt in the seat and pedals, but the handling and power transfer were greatly improved.
Carbon stays informationNessism
Feb 13, 2002 10:40 AM
The link below comes from the framebuilders email forum. It details a weight comparison for several different types of stays. Also, some interesting thoughts are presented from a framebuilders perspective.

http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=framebuilders.10110.0199.eml
re: Thoughts on 2 framessprockets
Feb 13, 2002 8:56 AM
I find the Cannondale's frame to be quite a stiffie. I dont know that I would want to do century+ rides on it.
Did you take a look at.....Giant TCR?mixinbeatz
Feb 13, 2002 9:08 AM
I know you compact frame bashers are going to jump on me for this one!!! I used to be a giant hater myself.... until I got my new team bike about two weeks ago. The tcr zero is by far the best aluminum bicycle I have ever ridden. It is much more comfortable that my cannondale or allez could ever have been, and it is lighter. I would recommend riding one before you kick down a bunch of cash for something else.... even retail these bikes are really affordable. They may get negative fashion points, but the ride is worth it.
re: Thoughts on 2 framesRayBan
Feb 13, 2002 1:55 PM
from the ideal bike you describe, it seems that you already answered your question with the KHS. Even though the cannondale is plenty stiff and the carbon fork takes the edge off, you will probably get a bit more comfort with the carbon rear of the KHS. I hav'ent ridden a KHS so I am guessing.
Cannondale's are nice rides though so if your not doing MEGA mile training rides all the time you can't go wrong with a 'Dale. It will definetly be light and stiff but not overly stiff bone rattling like the 'dales from a long time ago. They've refined their bikes and have developed a real good product for the money.
Agree with C'dale Caad5 ++ [nm]jagiger
Feb 13, 2002 2:39 PM
Get the KHS!!cyclequip
Feb 14, 2002 6:51 AM
I've built quite a few of the Flite 2000's - one for the current world duathlon champ and the bike is great. Until some of the posters here actually TRY a carbon rear triangle or stay, they must refrain from commenting. I ride a custom allie frame (6061, triple-butted, heat treated - T6) with a full carbon rear. The difference between it and my other bike with an allie rear end is huge - better road-buzz damping (not a flex issue) and a much more comfortable ride over distance. The KHS is pretty good here too. That duathlon rider prefers his KHS to his Cannondale, by the way.
Get the KHS!!Soup
Feb 14, 2002 9:22 AM
Cool, I was looking for info from people who have experience with these frames. I think that I've decided and will be getting the khs. I'll post pics when I get it built