|Clincher or Tubular||Bruce|
Feb 12, 2002 10:08 AM
|If you had a chose of a race tire only, which would it be?
I have never used anything but clinchers, but I know that alot of the pros run tubulars on race day, where a flat would put you out anyway probably.
|it's all down to $$$||cyclopathic|
Feb 12, 2002 10:22 AM
|can you afford race only wheelset?
tubulars have lesser rolling resistance (though Sheldon Brown claims it's not true anymore), lighter, less chance to damage rim, blah-blah-blah. deff alot more $$$
|it's all down to $$$||Woof the dog|
Feb 12, 2002 11:28 AM
|i thought tubulars, given the same tire pressure and width would be slower because of the glue "squirming" or whatever. Ain't that right, buddy boy?
the real dog.
Feb 12, 2002 3:24 PM
|the way to answer is to mount it and ride it if you have PwrTap.
there're so many diff reasons why one tire could be slower then other like type of rubber, sidewall constriction, thread, tube (sewups have internal tube too) would be impossible to tell.
Judging by the fact that clinchers usually don't make to podium in pro races one would guess tubulars are faster, but it may just reflect the tradition. My brother used to race in 70s and he never had anything but tubulars, you would never convince him.
Proper glued tubulars probably safer, I had clincher pop off front rim (ouch). I was riding with wheel overlap and guy upfront did something stupid.
Feb 12, 2002 4:15 PM
|well... race results can be misleading.
i ride tubulars.
i think most of the reason racers ride them is for their feel/grip, flat resistance and the better controlability if flatted. not because of weight savings or wrongly assumed lower rolling resistance.
it would take a lot of arguing to prove they are faster. there are some mighty fast and light clinchers nowadays and on some manufacturer wheels the weight difference between tubulars and clinchers is 30-40 or so grams. and yes if zipps are your choice the difference is much bigger.
|re: Clincher or Tubular||netso|
Feb 12, 2002 10:53 AM
|I rode tubulars since 1983 till 2000. I have clinchers now.
I like clinchers because they are less costly, however if I had a choice I would take tubulars. They ride imho much better than clinchers.
Feb 12, 2002 11:47 AM
|How so? Not challenging you, I'm genuinely curious. I know the pros mostly go w/ sew-ups but what kind of an advantage does this afford you?
|Tubulars !!! all the way. NO QUESTION.||xx|
Feb 12, 2002 11:06 AM
|but, what do you do when you flat?||tempeteKerouak|
Feb 12, 2002 11:23 AM
|Well sorry, but I have a few questions actually!
Do you carry glue? do you repair/patch? sewing?
What's the procedure and what do you carry so you can finish the training and ride back on your own?
|Ooops! race day only!!! who cares, change this! (nm)||tempeteKerouak|
Feb 12, 2002 11:51 AM
|but, what do you do when you flat?||guido|
Feb 12, 2002 11:55 AM
|You carry a spare tire, folded up and attached to the seat rails under your saddle. You roll off the flat tire from the rim, roll on the spare, pump it up, and go home, simple as that. The spare will stay on the rim without glue, but might roll off in a corner. Some riders put a little glue on the spare before the ride, to make it tacky and hold it better on the rim.|
|Race with tubies, train with clinchers||Starliner|
Feb 12, 2002 12:02 PM
|If you go out on a training ride on tubulars, you'll need to take an entire spare tire with you already glued on the base tape. Simply fold it up accordion-like, put rubber bands around it and stuff it along with a couple of plastic tire irons in an old sock and then in one of your rear pockets.
Best to not train on them if dealing with flats on the fly seems like a daunting task. Probably better reason to train with clinchers is that they are far cheaper to deal with should you ever flat. It costs next to nothing to fix a clincher tube and takes little time. With a tubie, it's a lot more involved proposition.
Racing, however, I go with tubies because they make me more confident at high speeds especially with cornering and dealing with rough pavement. I weigh 195-200 lbs and having a deeper cushion down where the rubber meets the road is comforting. Plus, I feel they are stickier in the corners than my clinchers (Vredestein Tri Comps)
|Race with tubies, train with clinchers - EXACTLY||xx|
Feb 12, 2002 12:09 PM
|To Bruce - the initiator of this discussion - ride on tubulars ONCE and you will totally understand. perhaps you already have, but I believe if you have, you wouldn't ask the question.|
|Take the flat tire off, put a spare one on, and head home||dzrider|
Feb 12, 2002 12:29 PM
|I don't carry glue, just corner carefully.
I don't patch tubulars as I haven't been successful keepin them straight when I sewed them back up.
I only use tubulars when riding by myself. I very seldom get flats because I ride carefully which is harder to do in a paceline. I also don't want the group to feel like they have to designate somebody to get me and my spare home safely.
Tubulars are inconvenient, but it sure feels nice when you're leaning at high speed.
|How hard is the glued flat to remove?||baggette|
Feb 13, 2002 2:06 AM
|How hard is it to remove the glued tyre and how hard is it to remount the new tyre while out on the road?|
|Hard to unstick glue, easy mount spare.||guido|
Feb 13, 2002 2:21 PM
|The glued-on tire is, fortunately, pretty well stuck on the rim, after being ridden at full pressure for, typically, a month or so. You start opposite the valve, and just peel the tire off with your thumbs, bit by bit, until you get about a third of the way around the rim, then grasp it like a rope, and pull it the rest of the way off, around to the valve hole.
Inflate the spare so it's fully round and tubular shaped, but still soft enough to collapse. Insert the valve into the valve hole, and roll in onto the rim, working away from the valve in both directions, also stretching it as much as possible so there will be enough tire left to roll onto the rim at the end, opposite the valve hole. Clinchers behave somewhat the same way, but they'll stretch out as you're rolling the last several inchs of bead onto the rim. Tubulars won't because they're sticking to the rim all the way around before you get to the end.
I've seen "pros" change a tubular flat in less time than it would take to change a clincher. There are less operations involved.
Feb 12, 2002 12:42 PM
|A light, kevlar beaded, smooth treaded clincher on a light rim, is probably as fast as an expensive tubular, and definitely faster than a cheap tubular. Tubulars might have a little more traction in corners, and soak up road vibrations better, but how much is that worth in a race? They're expensive, a high art to repair, and messy to mount. Thye're as obsolete as chromed handlebars.|
Feb 12, 2002 1:06 PM
|My ZIPP 404 tubulars with TUFO 215 tires weigh 1800g, 404 clinchers with Axial pros and tubes weighs over 2300g, that's over a pound of weight savings.....alot in my book.|
|Wait for me on the next hill!||guido|
Feb 12, 2002 4:16 PM
|I have to admit, after reading the postings, that tubulars are really nicer performing than clinchers. They're expensive and inconvenient to maintain, but so what? When has money ever been more important than the love of the sport? On a set of race wheels, with a light, fast frame, tubulars would be awesome. Any serious racer would love them!|
|re: Clincher or Tubular||mackgoo|
Feb 12, 2002 2:29 PM
|re: Clincher or Tubular||JimP|
Feb 12, 2002 2:54 PM
|re. flat tubulars: A tubular tire has less tendency to get "snake bite" or pinch flats since the rim does not have the big lip. When you do get a flat, if you use a glue that does not harden, like Continental, there will be some soft glue left on the rim after you remove the flat tire and if your spare was pre-glued (like a used tire that has old, but not hard, glue on it) the spare will adhere to the rim when it is pumped up.
Ride quality: The cross section of a tubular tire is more circular than most clinchers which seems to give better cornering grip. The cross section of a clincher is dependent on the rim width. The narrower the rim, the more V shaped the tire cross section. This makes a longer, narrower, contact patch on the road.
Price: I just bought 3 Conti Sprinters from SDeals for $24 usd each with a total including shipping of $89 usd. Most clinchers are more expensive than that.
|re: Clincher or Tubular||king or norway|
Feb 12, 2002 2:57 PM
|That's a great price what is SDeals?? Website?|
|re: Clincher or Tubular||JimP|
Feb 13, 2002 5:03 PM
|www.sdeals.com - it is a web site for a bike shop in the UK. They have pricing in usd. The shipping is expensive but if you buy in enough quantity ( like 3 conti sprinters), it is still cheaper than any other site or shop. Another inexpensive shop is www.labiclicletta.com, a shop in Niagra Falls & Toronto.|
Feb 12, 2002 7:14 PM
|here is a link to some thread||Woof the dog|
Feb 12, 2002 8:09 PM
Woof the dog.