|How to make cyclist look bad!||Len J|
Feb 4, 2002 7:35 AM
|Came across this on another forum. Makes for interesting reading.
Sounds to me like they all ought to be locked up. Only goes to show that one persons actions do reflect on the rst of us.
|The entire cast of characters ought to be lobotomized. nm||morrison|
Feb 4, 2002 7:40 AM
Feb 4, 2002 9:16 AM
|Because of one supreme idiot on a bike, some other things got lost in the shuffle. A woman now feels vindicated for consistently parking in a no parking zone, and a man feels vindicated for putting a stick in a cyclist's wheel.
If this were the old west, the cyclist would be hanging from a tree, and no one would blink an eye. Of course, they didn't have cars back then. Probably didn't have no parking zones wither. Not bikes. Maybe not even sticks. Actually, this was a bad example...
Feb 4, 2002 10:07 AM
|re: How to make cyclist look bad!||LLSmith|
Feb 4, 2002 7:49 AM
|Sounds like a whole group of nuts. The cyclist is lucky the lady didn't catch him and kick his a$$.Can you imagine riding along and having somebody jump out and put a stick in your wheel???|
|good and bad ways to make a point||Dog|
Feb 4, 2002 7:55 AM
|It does go to show that there are good and bad ways to make a point, no matter where you are. The cyclist could have stopped and politely asked her to move, or he'd notify the police. Instead, he acted really stupidly. Of course, it went down hill from there.
There are some analogies to the way some people occasionally act on this forum, too.
|I wonder how pompous the cyclist felt.........||Len J|
Feb 4, 2002 8:10 AM
|lying on the ground being restrained by the husband!
Good point on the analogy to the forum. I wish we all could think before we act.
Feb 4, 2002 8:53 AM
|Of course we really haven't heard his side of it, but it looks like captain pc got what was coming to him.|
|He who sticks anything in my wheel will DIE!!!||mixinbeatz|
Feb 4, 2002 11:01 AM
|Property damage and or verbal assault should not be dealt with, by a stick in the wheel. I agree the guy was being an ass, but I would have kicked the piss out of any police wannabe that jams something into my wheel. Everyone should watch out for these mid life crisis karate guys. They are always trying to start shit with other people because they think they are super tuff. I should know, my dad is one of those guys, and had me in karate school before I could walk.|
Feb 4, 2002 11:21 AM
|'fraid I'd have to agree w/ the others. The cyclist got what he deserved. There is no excuse for initiating violence, verbal or otherwise. The cyclist started the physical stuff by smashing a windshield and mirror...and spitting on the wife.
The whole incident sounds like something out of Monty Python. Wife was being a typical soccer mom by parking illegally (like everyone else). The cyclist was rude while trying to be a pseudo cop (road rage). The wife escalated by flipping the cyclist off (more road rage). Cyclist smashed and spitted (more road rage). Cops didn't hunt down the cyclist, showing how useful the cops are in this sort of situation. The couple get sick of this lack of justice and decide to capture the cyclist themselves (notice I didn't say vigilantes because they obviously could have kicked the cyclist's butt but just captured him).
Feb 4, 2002 11:32 AM
|It may be justice in a sense, but I'd say not poetic. More like "frontier."
However, no matter what the cyclist did, the one thing I have a problem with (well, not the only one) is the spokes treatment. That could have killed him. That was not legally justified, and it was another criminal act. I'd be suing karate man over that, assuming I couldn't kick his butt. But then again, no one is going to have much sympathy for the guy.
|I would guess the guy thought he was clever........||Len J|
Feb 4, 2002 11:54 AM
|stopping the guy by putting a stick in his wheel. Imagine if the guy did an endo, hit his head & died. Somehow I don't think he would have not done jail time, Involuntary manslaughter maybe
It is amazing how many stupid things people (myself included) will do in the heat of the moment. This is another example of why it's important to be safe out there. Your first reaction may just escalate an already crazy situitation.
Feb 4, 2002 12:47 PM
|I was wondering about the stick thing as well. Why didn't the guy just tackle the cyclist? He obviously couldn't kick him. Since he had a black belt, a kick would have been assault w/ a deadly weapon (his body because he had a black belt). He probably thought of this. There was no real reason to use the stick that I could think of; he was obviously close enough to just knock the cyclist over.
By "poetic", I meant that the cyclist was caught eventually for destruction of private property and spitting on someone. Not that he was stopped by a stick.
|I had an eerily similar situation...||EricP|
Feb 4, 2002 11:45 AM
|happen here is Carlsbad Ca. I ride through a school zone every day, and there are dozens of cars that park in the bike lane, and I consistently get cut off by cars pulling over parking and then leaving.
There was on woman that was startled by me when she was exiting her illegal parking spot, then passed by at 6inches, and told me to f-off and get on the sidewalk.
I emailed the local police when I got to work, and got a phone call within 20 minutes. The deputy said that they were working on the situation, and that they encouraged cyclists and generally apologized for the mess in this particular spot.
I am really glad no one stuck a stick in my spokes. OUch.
|That's great that they got back to you that quickly! nm||morrison|
Feb 4, 2002 11:48 AM
|Here in the South we use axes...||merlinguy|
Feb 5, 2002 6:37 PM
|Last year a friend of mine was buzzed by one of the angry inbred locals west of here (Raleigh). Seems this guy was pissed that he might have to veer his van over 8 or 10 inches to go around my buddy. This was on a rural country road with minimal traffic. The turnipseed buzzed my friend, cliiped him with the side view mirror. My guy flipped him off. The driver squeals the brakes, hops out with a freaking axe in his hand and charges the cyclist!!! Rider tries to get his bike between himself and the deranged Jethro, but still takes a shot across the forearm where he put it up to cover his head, which was the intended target. Guy runs back to his truck and speeeds off. Luckily there was a witness, and plate number was taken. After it was all said and done (6 mos. later) the driver was sentenced to ANGER MANAGEMENT COUNSELING!!!!! and a small fine!!!! He still drives and still sleeps with his relatives I suppose.
I realize this is an extreme case, but cyclists usually get the short end of the stick in these matters.
The guy in the article sounds like your typical middle-mangement, corporate, small dick pin-head who's determined to shove his righteousness down everybody else's throat. Often in articles like this "cyclists" are nothing more than ne'er do wells who happen to be riding some rig they borrowed or stole. It happens all the time here - headline will read "Cyclist robs bank", or "Armed robber flees on bicycle". These are not the kind of people that I usually ride with, I promise you that.
|re: How to make cyclist look bad!||guido|
Feb 4, 2002 12:38 PM
|Who was this cyclist and why was he so hot on getting this woman to vacate the no parking zone she was in? She certainly couldn't have been blocking his path. If he wanted to use that spot, he could have dismounted and parked his bike on the sidewalk. He was just a smartass moralist with an ax to grind about mothers picking up their kids after school and congesting a street he traveled.
Anybody who rides a bike for transportation will at times feel vulnerable and disrespected by these ladies in their SUVs. No wonder American kids are getting fat and out of shape. They ought to be walking or riding their bikes to school. But parents are so worried about "safety" they don't teach their children how to be responsible and take care of themselves. Instead, they create traffic jams outside the elementary schools every afternoon, to the dismay of other road users and residents, who have to put up with it.
I feel for the bicyclist, but I'm on the woman's side in this one. If the cyclist hadn't threatened the woman and broken her windshield, her husband would not have vengefully thrust a stick in his spokes and held him on the ground until police came. I would have done the same damn thing. The cyclist's behavior was clearly out of line.
Feb 4, 2002 12:53 PM
|Out of curiosity, where in the story was it mentioned she was driving an SUV? I didn't see it..|
Feb 4, 2002 1:40 PM
|go to any, and i mean any, suburban grade school and the most prevelent vehicle is the SUV. it's just a fact. and i drive a SUV! his post was exactly on the mark.|
Feb 4, 2002 2:19 PM
|I think the minivan is in close contention, if not more prevalent. Nonetheless, the SUV was speculation this time.
Also, a lot of the so-called "SUV's" are nothing more than station wagons raised a few inches and possibly with all wheel drive -- nothing like Suburbans, Tahoes, Expeditions and Excursions, which in my book are TRUCKS, with nothing "sport" about them.
|2 or more kids, minivans make more sense||kenyee|
Feb 4, 2002 2:30 PM
|I was really amused when a couple of my wife's friends had to be convinced by their *husbands* that a minivan made more sense for them. The wives were getting the castrated feeling when the minivan word was brought up :-)
Anyways, my comment was not that SUVs or minivans or whatever are more popular (at a day care center in the neighborhood, it's more like cars 50%, minivans 25%, SUVs 25%). It was that the poster assumed...
Feb 4, 2002 2:38 PM
|With a kid on the way, I'm thinking minivan, too. The Honda looks pretty sharp, and has 240 horsepower (more than some 1980's vintage Corvettes). Wouldn't be bad for bike events, too.
Same here. My wife says she will never have a minivan. She's more adamant about it that I might have been at some times.
|I swear by mine. W/ 2 kids, it's great. The best part||morrison|
Feb 4, 2002 2:49 PM
|is that you don't rip your back apart trying to get the kids in and out of the seats. Also, w/ removable rear bench, you can carry a boat load of bikes, and all the tools you'd need to build a bike from scratch. W/ tinted windows, you have a great changing room, too.|
|Especially if your parents come along||kenyee|
Feb 4, 2002 6:08 PM
|One friend takes trips w/ their parents fairly often (they just had a 2nd kid). With SUVs w/ 3rd rows (his wife was obsessed w/ a Land Cruiser), the parents would have to climb through the 2nd row into the seats or crawl in through the hatch. It was obviously impractical. He also gets a good bike wagon when they escape from the kids ;-)
Of course, the wife backed the Odyssey into stuff (trees, cars) already after a few months ownership, but that's another story...
If you have one kid (and no more), a lot of SUVs are practical. Another of my wife's friends has a JGC and they swear by it. They also have a Maxima, but like loading their kid into the JGC instead. No back pain from bending down to load the kid into their Maxima. They just traded the Maxima for an MDX (a short Odyssey) since they have 2 kids now...I don't think they realize there is no space behind the 3rd row in the MDX unlike the Odyssey...
|SUVs have their benefits||ColnagoFE|
Feb 4, 2002 3:38 PM
|Try going camping with a minivan. It just doesn't work. No clearance. Also if you ever have to haul anything in a trailer the SUV is the better choice. If all you ever do though is kid hauling then the minivan might be a better choice.|
Feb 4, 2002 1:06 PM
|In some areas bike lanes are an area next to the curb with a painted line about 3-4 feet into the road. They are clearly marked off. Parking or driving in them, except to make a right turn, is prohibited. Doing so forces the cylists out into traffic.
Essentially, the lady was in the wrong. The cyclist was in the right to complain. However, he did so in the wrong way. Then the husband was in the right to complain against the cyclist. But, he was then in the wrong because of the way he went about it. Everyone was wrong.
|Everyone was wrong...||Ahimsa|
Feb 4, 2002 2:06 PM
|Agreed. They should all be hogtied and drowned in a septic tank.
BTW, I got a letter from the prosecutors office the other day. My complaint against the pick up truck driving, shot gun toting goon who tried to run me down/shoot me is going to be pursued after all. I'm to come down and file charges asap. Any lawyer-ly advice from the peanut gallery?
I can't believe it is really going to get done. I was told it was unlikely to ever happen. Weird. Lucky?
Part of me is over it and does not want to revisit this mess. The other part of me wants this joker in the pokey. Normal feelings I suppose.
Feb 4, 2002 2:14 PM
|Are there any other witnesses? If so, see if they will go with you.
All I can really say is to tell the truth, but you know that. Don't speculate, exaggerate, or minimize anything. That's your best chance of a conviction and not having this bozo sue you when it's over, if he prevails.
I think you have a civic/moral duty to follow through when you can. Good for you.
|Sound advice. As a shyster myself, I can . . .||morrison|
Feb 4, 2002 2:57 PM
|say that I agree w/ all that he said except THERE IS NO WAY TO PREVENT THE SOB FROM TRYING TO SUE YOU ON HIS OWN. In California, however, his ability to do so would be significantly impaired were he convicted. Particularly if he suffers a conviction by way of a change of plea. In other words, if he plea bargains, he will have to sign a form admitting what he did. He also, unless it is charged as a misdemeanor (and I think this clearly qualifies as felony conduct), will have to make an in-court admission under oath. These are good things for you.
That said, all I do is criminal defense. Before, I was a prosecutor. In all my years in the criminal justice system, I have never seen a defendant in a criminal case successfully sue his accuser. (It happens, but it's never happened in any case I've been involved in.) I wouldn't be too concerned about it.
Good luck, and keep us posted. By the way, what state are you in?
|Admiting ignorance here...||Ahimsa|
Feb 4, 2002 4:07 PM
|Exactly how,why,and under what pretense could this idiot sue me for Pete's sake?
He tried to run me over with a truck, and then upon failing to do so, chased me with a rifle, all over a case of mistaken identity. He "thought I was that one guy what slashed his goldurned tires".
I never had any contact with him before that. I never touched his tires. I was never near his street. I do not know him from Adam. I was riding along one second, and being run down the next.
Please explain this psuedo-legality.
Feb 4, 2002 4:46 PM
|He could sue for defamation and/or malicious prosecution. I've handled a civil suit involving it where an employer had an employee arrested. The issues are "truth" and "probably cause" to have the prosecution made. (Don't take this as legal advice, but only general information.)
|if there were no witnesses||kenyee|
Feb 4, 2002 6:15 PM
|And no proof (if police didn't take time to match footprints to prove he was there, etc.), that would probably be a valid lawsuit.
Let's say someone accuses an innocent person (not saying the guy is innocent) of chasing them w/ a gun (the someone is anti-gun and happens to know the guy has a gun), but there are no witnesses and no evidence. Is this defamation of character, especially if it gets "leaked" to the press? Of if the guy gets fired for it by his employer because of the accusation?
|bike lane rules are different where I live||bikedodger|
Feb 4, 2002 3:26 PM
|I live north of Denver. We have bike lanes that motorized vehicles are allowed to park in. Obviously this makes them useless for bikes. I think it is part of a public relations gimmick. The city can say they have done much for cycling (X miles of bike lanes) without worrying about angering the motorists who like to park everywhere. I just ride in the traffic lanes as they are the only spot left.
|This is right by my house.||Pack Meat|
Feb 4, 2002 3:36 PM
|The cyclist should be thrown in jail. This happened on a nice quiet side street with a well defined bike lane. It's about a block from Wash Park which has a nice 2.5 mile-no traffic loop. Even if she was parked right on top of the bike lane the traffic goes through there so slowly that it's no big deal to take the lane to go around her. So many cyclists ride around there that people are used to seeing them and watch for them. Around the school you can't go more than a block with out hitting a stop sign so you can't carry any speed through there anyway. The guy is a moron. He's probably the type that I see in the park zipping around the loop at 20+ mph on his aero bars in a full tuck on his $2500 bike with his gut resting on the top tube.
Share the Road.
|This is right by my house.||mixinbeatz|
Feb 4, 2002 4:27 PM
|no shit the guy should be in jail.... but at the same time you don't shoot the punk who was breaking into your car as he runs away. We all agree these people are a bunch of wankers, but the karate dude, should be in jail for being an ass as well. I have gotten into trouble because someone has hit me with their car(their fault), and the only thing I realized is that it is a lot harder to find a lawyer to sue the guy if you punched him, and smashed his windshield in. We all just need to chill. Violence breeds violence. The only way to stop these things is to slow down and think before you start woopin ass.|
|Amen brother!||Pack Meat|
Feb 4, 2002 4:47 PM
|I agree 100%.|
|re: How to make cyclist look bad!||Dutchy|
Feb 4, 2002 4:33 PM
|For the most part the bike lanes where I live are either marked:
Bike lane at all times (no parking/standing at all)
Bike lane 7.30am-9.00am schooldays (can park a car outside these times)
Bike lane 3.00pm-4.30pm schooldays (can park a car outside these times)
Bike lane (can park a car anytime)
Obviously the Bike lane at all times is my favourite, people don't park in them otherwise
they WILL get a ticket, the councils make a lot of money from parking fines and are not afraid
to ticket anyone. For the most part all the bike lanes are always vacant of parked cars
I normally see the same cars parked in the same place everyday, clearly these drivers are
either selfish or don't have any where else to park.
Thankfully there are HEAPS of bike lanes here, which means more people ride :-)
|SUV's are for phoney pretenders||Compact frames are by manuf's|
Feb 5, 2002 5:29 AM
|who have children and don't want to look like they have kids as a rsult of driving a van or station waggon. About as close to offroad as most SUV owners get is pulling over onto the shoulder to change a flat. Yuppie phonies in my book with very few exceptions.|
|c'mon now||Fred Temarles|
Feb 5, 2002 8:54 AM
|How good are minivans at getting over fire roads to go camping? Or how good are they at hauling a boat? How many minivans have AWD or 4WD for bad weather? Sure there are a lot of people driving SUVs that never see dirt or haul anything, but you get the right vehicle for what you want to use it for. Sometimes that is an SUV or truck. SUVs sell well because they are very versatile. You can take them camping, drive them through a snowstorm, haul 5 kids to soccer, or haul lumber or building materials home from Home Depot. I think people that bash SUVs often are just jealous that they can't afford one. Do you think many Ferrari or Lexus (or other sports car) owners drive to the capability of their cars? I doubt it, but you don't hear many people bashing them.|
|you Aussies are a bit ahead of US...||guido|
Feb 6, 2002 2:23 PM
|on accomodating bicycles as a legitimate, valuable transportation alternative. It'll be awhile before city planners in most US cities will wise up and get over their notion that bicycles are recreational toys.|| |