RoadBikeReview.com's Forum Archives - General


Archive Home >> General(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 )


look kg281 opinions.(28 posts)

look kg281 opinions.Look KG 281 opinions
Jan 9, 2002 9:06 PM
anyone have experience/opinions on this frame? interested in a carbon frame and I like the look frames. Is this frame a good all around frame for comfort/stiffness, stiffness probably being more important to me at this point, since I ride competitively.

Thanks

Sub
holy cow....CT1
Jan 9, 2002 9:41 PM
The KG281 is a very nice frameset. Stiff AND lively! Certainly the best I've ever ridden. They have very slack seat tube angles if that matters to you. I like that a lot myself but some don't.

Make sure you size the bike such that the stem spacers are 1cm or less. This will minimize steerer flex.

BTW: You can get a good price on these pups (@ Total, etc) as they have been replaced with the more expensive KG381 and KG381i.

Do a search through the archives for other comments.

ride on
JohnG

ride on
holy cow....Sub
Jan 9, 2002 10:10 PM
JohnG, thanks for the reply, I currently ride a GT zr 2.0 that I obviously got a great deal on this year. I just love the Look frames. What exactly is a slack seat tube angle and how does that affect handling, position on the bike, etc..? By the way, I love my GT, never hurts to have a few bikes to choose from before a ride does it? dont know if the wife would agree though. Yours is a beauty.

Sub
slack ST angleCT1
Jan 9, 2002 10:25 PM
All carbon LOOKS have 72.5 degree ST angles. This is particularly slack for the smaller frames. Most other frame makers gradually increase the ST angle as the frame size gets smaller. For example, my 54 Colnago (equivalent size to my LOOK 52) has a 74 degree ST angle. 74 degrees in my size is pretty typical actually. Yeowser: I like my LOOK geometry so much that I'm ordering a custom TI frame built to the EXACT geometric specs of the LOOK. :-)

Slack ST angles ===> old school Hmmmmm..... A slack st angle effectively shortens the TT making the bike "feel" smaller and "racier". It also allows you to use a more rearward saddle position which is great if you are a "mid cadence" power type rider and/or like climbing a lot. I fancy myself as a piss poor climber but I still like to skootch way back. Keep in mind most Crit/roadracers generally prefer a more forward saddle position which is consistent with the current steep ST angles you see on most frames.

Hope that helps.... I'm sure others will have something to say about this too.
JohnG
Since were both hereSub
Jan 9, 2002 10:32 PM
CT1, my GT is a 56, would it be safe to say I may need a 54 then in the look? I do alot of climing since where I live, I can only ride up, or down, hard to find a flat stretch of road longer than 1 mi around here. How does the weight of the look compare to other carbon frames, trek, etc... hope im not troubling you. and keep it on the down low, my wife is lingering. hehe

Sub
one more thingSub
Jan 9, 2002 10:33 PM
what do you think of the all white, or all black frames?
also, what about that all carbon fork? is that safe?
Thanks

Sub
not that i know for sure as i dont own one but...happy happy
Jan 10, 2002 12:23 AM
with many frames especially looks i think its best to go by top tube length rather than seat tubes. then work on how high your saddle will be. and as ct1 was hinting at earlier if you have to raise the bars with spacers to get comfortable then the frame is probably not for you.

i rode a riding partners and i loved it but i dont think i could live with it as im not as young as i was and i can get away with being a little more upright on my square italian job. stem and bars can make a difference though. ask yourself if you want to race or just look fast as i see more people on their bar tops than in their hoods these days but then again i live in NYC.

with regards to colors (shades) Black is the business and looks so hot compared to the telegraph pole tube diameters so common nowadays.

if you cant ride one then try at least to be fitted on a bike rig in your lbs according to the specs and measurements of the look specs and see how it feels.

their quality is of no question and many of their owners are repeat buyers. always a good sign.
Black or WhiteDave Hickey
Jan 10, 2002 6:23 AM
Both colors look great on this frame. The white actually has the LOOK lettering in natural carbon. When the paint the frame, they mask the lettering and then remove. It looks great. The black is the CSC team color. It's a natural carbon finish
Black or WhiteCT1
Jan 10, 2002 6:39 AM
A guy in my club has a "nude" LOOK. The bike has a VERY industrial look which isn't very appealing, IMHO.

I've never seen a white LOOK. The pics look nice but I'd be concerned over the how it would look "in use". Seems like a bleached white color would show dirt pretty quickly. ???

ride on
JohnG
Since were both hereCT1
Jan 10, 2002 7:03 AM
Sub

You'll have to first decide if you like the sizing on your GT. Once you've done that you should be able to carefully compare the geometry's of the two bikes and come to some conclusions.

Several things to keep in mind about sizing LOOKS:
1. The 1" carbon steerer tube on the "older" LOOKS is somewhat flexy. Make sure you size the frame with that in mind. You can also fudge this issue if you can "accept" an upturned stem. Personally, I think an upturned stem is a major style abomination but to each his own. BTW: The difference between the CC measurement of the LOOK and the actual CT (of the TT) is close to 2cm.

2. The slack ST angle effectively shortens the TT. I.e. for a given TT length as the ST angle get slacker the headtube moves "back" relative to the BB. this is why slack ST angle bikes tend to fit long leg/ short torso folks good. If you have a long torso and short legs then a LOOK will NOT fit well.

3. Try to size the frame so that you have a 12cm stem.

The new 02 KG381 will have a 1.125" steerer tube so I would expect it to be a fair bit stiffer than the old 1" fork. That will be one kick ass frame!!!! I'll probably get one later this year. :)

Oh, the LOOK frame is pretty similar in weight to the other major brands. OK, it's maybe 150gms heavier than a C40 and Calfee. I think it's good weight. :-) The frame has a VERY lively feel. NOT dead or wooden like some other well know carbon frame. ;)

As far as looking at a Calfee. ??? Great frames that are by comparison to the LOOK, NOT a good value. Regardless of the cost issue I see NO difference in "quality" or technology between the two. OK, the Ti dropouts are an incredible work of art and execution on the Calfee. If you've got an extra $1300 (comparing a 281 to a Tetra) to blow then do it. I've actually recommended a Calfee to a good friend (who promptly went and bought one) so don't accuse me of bashing em!

ride on
JohnG
Since were both hereCT1
Jan 10, 2002 7:05 AM
Sub

You'll have to first decide if you like the sizing on your GT. Once you've done that you should be able to carefully compare the geometry's of the two bikes and come to some conclusions.

Several things to keep in mind about sizing LOOKS:
1. The 1" carbon steerer tube on the "older" LOOKS is somewhat flexy. Make sure you size the frame with that in mind. You can also fudge this issue if you can "accept" an upturned stem. Personally, I think an upturned stem is a major style abomination but to each his own. BTW: The difference between the CC measurement of the LOOK and the actual CT (of the TT) is close to 2cm.

2. The slack ST angle effectively shortens the TT. I.e. for a given TT length as the ST angle get slacker the headtube moves "back" relative to the BB. this is why slack ST angle bikes tend to fit long leg/ short torso folks good. If you have a long torso and short legs then a LOOK will NOT fit well.

3. Try to size the frame so that you have a 12cm stem.

The new 02 KG381 will have a 1.125" steerer tube so I would expect it to be a fair bit stiffer than the old 1" fork. That will be one kick ass frame!!!! I'll probably get one later this year. :)

Oh, the LOOK frame is pretty similar in weight to the other major brands. OK, it's maybe 150gms heavier than a C40 and Calfee. I think it's good weight. :-) The frame has a VERY lively feel. NOT dead or wooden like some other well know carbon frame. ;)

As far as looking at a Calfee. ??? Great frames that are by comparison to the LOOK, NOT a good value. Regardless of the cost issue I see NO difference in "quality" or technology between the two. OK, the Ti dropouts are an incredible work of art and execution on the Calfee. If you've got an extra $1300 (comparing a 281 to a Tetra) to blow then do it. I've actually recommended a Calfee to a good friend (who promptly went and bought one) so don't accuse me of bashing em!

ride on
JohnG
geometry comparison....C-40
Jan 10, 2002 9:57 AM
The 56cm GT has a 73 degree STA compared to LOOK's 72.5. A 55cm LOOK should fit almost identically to the 56cm GT. The 55cm LOOK has a 56.9cm TT length. Subtracting .6cm for the difference in seat tube angle gives an effective length of 56.3cm which is virtually identical to the GT's 56.4cm TT.
umgtx
Jan 9, 2002 11:30 PM
JohnG, you're out of control. ANOTHER frame? Someone needs to stage an intervention. You need help. Who's building the frame? Some Italians with some of that famously low-grade Russian ti? :)
Red, White, and Blue all the way!!!!CT1
Jan 10, 2002 7:24 AM
I'm going with a custom Ti DEAN frame with S&S couplers. This will be my dedicated "travel" bike.

BTW: I had DEAN make me a Jester ST frame a couple of years ago and the weld and finish work were absolutely outstanding on it. My Dean road frame (which I foolishly sold last year) was of similar build quality and ride quality. I've seen most of the high end domestic ti frames and my DEAN frames have been equal to any of the others in weld "quality". I think these guys are truly the BEST value custom shop in the US. From my somewhat limited experience (two frames) I would also say that their work is second to none.

It will be a couple months but I'll post some pics of this baby when I get it. :-) Yeowser..... Tuscany here I come. :)

ride on
Red, White, and Blue all the way!!!!gtx
Jan 10, 2002 9:11 AM
I had a feeling you were going to go with Dean. That sounds great. The El Diente seems like the best value ti frame out there. Yeah, be sure to let us know how it works out. And if you're going to Tuscany, I can say you won't be disppointed--fantastic roads.
slack ST anglekoala
Jan 10, 2002 3:53 AM
I thought slack seat tube angles lengthened the seat tube...
see if this helps. "Effective top tube lengh"Dave Hickey
Jan 10, 2002 6:59 AM
I had this discussion with JohnG a while back and he convinced me. The key word is "effective" top tube length. Look the the very crude and exaggerated drawing below. The frame on the bottom as a slack seat tube angle. Notice that while the top tube is actually longer on the frame on the bottom, the effective top tube is shorter. The knee over pedal position on both bikes is the same.
nice drawing .... except... ;-)CT1
Jan 10, 2002 7:04 AM
You should keep the HT angle fixed. ;-)

ride on
JohnG
nice drawing .... except... ;-)Tiger
Jan 10, 2002 10:49 AM
Ok, I'm missing something here. If the head tube angle stays the same, then there doesn't seem to be any way that the top tube would not lengthen. My logic could be wrong, but this is like saying that moving your seat forward or backward could make your bike handle differently. Conventional wisdom has said that crit bikes have shorter TT, and touring bikes will generally have slacker seat tube angles and longer TT. Please enlighten me.
nice drawing .... except... ;-)CT1
Jan 10, 2002 1:25 PM
look at the picture again. It clearly illustrates the point.

JohnG
why slack seat tubes shorten the TT....C-40
Jan 10, 2002 2:28 PM
Most people make an effort to maintain the same knee-over-pedal position (KOP). To maintain any particular KOP on a frame with a slack seat tube angle, the saddle must be moved forward, compared to a frame with a steeper seat tube angle. Moving the saddle forward effectively shortens the top tube length. The amount is about 1.2cm per degree depending on the frame size.

The formula to calculate the exact difference requires the saddle height, from the center of the bottom bracket to be measured. The formula is: (cosA-CosB) x saddle height.

For example to compare a 73 degree STA to a 74 degree STA, with a saddle height of 75cm: (cos73-cos74) x 75cm = 1.26cm.

Another approximation can be made with only the frame size, measured center to top: 1.32 x (frame size) x (cosA-cosB) = effective difference in TT length.
why slack seat tubes shorten the TT....Troyboy
Jan 10, 2002 2:33 PM
c-40, I've got a question for you. Would you please email me? larster@altavista.net
Thanks Dave!koala
Jan 10, 2002 9:57 AM
holy cow....SantaCruzin
Jan 9, 2002 11:06 PM
Nice lookin Look. I've got a yellow Calfee Tetra that fades to natural near BB and for the chain stays.

Sub - You owe it to yourself to ride a Calfee before you make a final decision on a carbon bike. Just over a year ago I chose the Calfee over the Look, Kestrel and Trek. Couldn't find a C-40 to test. The Look would have been my second choice.
I've got a buddy who's selling a carbon look framecyclinseth
Jan 10, 2002 7:24 AM
Probably inexpensive. Don't know what size. I think it's big though.

eastonlp@ix.netcom.com
Thanks for the helpSub
Jan 10, 2002 8:49 AM
I appriciate it. got into riding about 9 mos ago and I love it. It certainly helps having people with more knowledge, experience to help out. I know everyone has there own likes/dislikes on this board so it is hard not to be persuaded one way or the other. I'm surprised My ZR 2.0 didn't take a beating in this thread, I think it is a great ride, though i dont have much to compare to at this point. Thanks for all the input.

Sub
re: look kg281 opinions.Rik
Jan 10, 2002 6:47 PM
LOOK KG281 in industrial black finish, great bike but a not so grat photo.
re: look kg281 opinions.Ian
Jan 11, 2002 5:38 PM
I had a KG281 for 8 months or so, before selling it and getting a KG361. I rode a Trek 5200 before that. I didn't sell the KG281 because I didn't like it, just had the chance to get something new. Anyway, I weigh 210 lbs and it felt stiff to me, in a 55cm frame. I had the nude carbon color, still do, and I love the way it looks, very stealth. You may be able to find a good deal online, but if buy overseas, remember that you do not get a US warranty. So if something were to happen, you will have to call France. But, it is good bike and I would recommend it.