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Interesting little trifle here...Take a look(27 posts)

Interesting little trifle here...Take a lookAUH
Jan 5, 2002 9:04 PM
Has anyone else seen the results of the CyclingNews.com "dream bike" poll? It asked readers to choose their bike of choice from the peloton?

1 Colnago C-40 (Mapei team colours)/CT-1
2 Trek USPS 5900/Lance's TT or Mountain model
3 Pinarello Prince (Telekom colours)/Opera
4 Eddy Merckx Domo team issue/Johan Museeuw's Merckx
5 Litespeed Ghisallo/Vortex
6 DeRosa Merak/King
7 Look KG 281/Credit TT model
8 Cannondale CAAD 6 (Saeco colours)/Black Lightning
9 Giant TCR/Once team issue
10 Specialized S-Works/Festina team issue
11 Bianchi EV4/Meratone Uno's Bianchi

See the web site for # votes and percentages.

I'm a little surprised at the second position of the Trek aren't you? Apart from that, the sequence makes sense to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm the smiling owner of a 5900, and consider myself lucky to ride it, but ... The scope of bikes I could get at "distinctly not retail price" was limited to Trek products (excluding Klein), that's why I chose it.

The C-40, Ghisallo, DeRosas, Prince (and a number of makers not included in the list) would be my pick above the Trek if my pockets were very deep.

Maybe it's due to the international votership of the poll. I understand Europeans, especially the French, think highly of Lance's bike; more than we would imagine given all the Euro brands at close hand. Similarly I've heard the Italians idolize those shiny Cannondales from America, which we Americans find surprising when we think of the land of style, craftmanship and tradition.

Or maybe it's the powerful marketing advantage of being the bike beneath the man making history the past 3 Tours.

What do you think? How would you rank them? Perspective from non-American readers would be nice as well.
re: Interesting little trifle here...Take a lookfuzzybunnies
Jan 5, 2002 10:28 PM
I'd put the derosa on the top of the list assuming money was no object.
Second would fall to litespeed but I'd be tossed between the vortex and the ultimate with the trek being third. With the rest order doesn't matter though I have no interest in the cdale, giant,specialized or merckx. Russ
fuzzy bunniesWoof the dog
Jan 6, 2002 2:05 AM
I love the name, how did you come up with it?

Sincerely

Woof, the you know who.
my guess is that ......CT1
Jan 6, 2002 7:02 AM
Hmmmm...... maybe fuzzybunnies has lots of hair on his back.... LOL ;-)

ride on
JohnG
fuzzy bunniesfuzzybunnies
Jan 6, 2002 8:30 AM
I actually have no clue where I came up with the name from, by the time I though to keep track I lost weather it was swipped or insperation. Been using it for years though. Russ
fuzzy bunnies - Better Off Dead?MisJG
Jan 7, 2002 7:10 AM
Weren't the "Fuzzy Bunnies" the antagonists to John Cusack's cartoon characters in "Better Off Dead"? Or maybe it was "One Crazy Summer". Not sure which. . .
fuzzy bunnies - Better Off Dead?fuzzybunnies
Jan 7, 2002 10:33 AM
it was one crazy summer and those were cute and cuddely not mentioned as fuzzy. Russ
re: Interesting little trifle here...Take a lookWoof the dog
Jan 6, 2002 2:03 AM
Its pretty funny and sad at the same time to see Bianchi so far down, even if it is a druggie frame ridden by the greatest infidel Marco. Bianchi should be within first five, I think. But maybe it is the same story with them liking Cannonsnails in EU while we like Bianchis here.

Treck should be around 7, Look should be higher (lower in number) while LS should follow Derosa and Merckx respectively - all before look though.

I agree with aluminum cans getting such a bad rap in this poll, hehe. I also happen to ride one of them so shame on me lol.

Whats so cool about Colnago anyway?

Woof the rollerdog.
sometimes its good to ruffle a few featherssecourir
Jan 6, 2002 2:39 AM
and you are also pretty spot on with different nuances of european fascination with trek and cannondale.

the bianchi would have ranked higher if they weren't trying to make money by selling less than ordinary lower end frames and thus tarnishing their once legendary name.

the trek is not my cup of tea but its good that they get some recognition as they are doing a lot of things well and marketing them even better.

the colnago is naturally on top but for how long? what was once the quintesence of all things racing and italian is on shakier ground with every year as their competition are close in quality and price if not better. i used to ride one but am weaning myself off the magic clover if only because their paint schemes are getting all the more obtuse and hard to look at.

i would pass all of them but the de rosa, pinarello, litespeed and the look for a cinelli unica. as a matter of fact if the wife leaves me then a cinelli with chorus and zip tubulars will be my rebound.

anybody in the market for a low milage wife.......
I think the answer may lie hereJohn-d
Jan 7, 2002 3:18 AM
I am not an European I am English, so to me Italy is as foreign as to anyone else. Having said that, the more exotic European makers nearly all market cheap(?) versions of their frames. So if you buy an affordable Bianchi for example it will not inspire because it is has cheap frameset with a flash paint job. However the likes of Giant and Cannondale put their best frames on all the models in the range, thus you can upgrade easily just by changing the accessaries and get the best of all worlds.

It's the same with wives..
re: Interesting little trifle here...Take a lookVelocipedio
Jan 6, 2002 7:02 AM
I chose the De Rosa. I saw a Merak recently at a LBS. Beautiful bike. If I'd had C$6000 in my pocket at the time, I would have bought it right there.

Keep in mind that cyclingnews.com is an English site and the overwhelming majority of its readers come from the English speaking world. There are just many, many more Trek dealers in the US, Canada and Australia than De Rosa or Colnago dealers. People are just used to SEEING Treks as the top-end bikes... And the cycling media saaturation of Lance Armstrong in the US, Canada and Australia doesn't help.

I'm constantly amazed by how many people chose Treks as their "dream bikes," when it's like chosing a Corvette over a Ferarri. But I guess a lot of people just don't know thr De Rosas and Pinarellos even exist.
My question is this....Cima Coppi
Jan 6, 2002 8:43 AM
How would this poll look if the professional trade teams in Europe and the U.S. rode unmarked bikes? This way people would not be so swayed to vote for a frame purely because the pro's ride it. I wonder how many of the people who voted for the Colnago actually ride one. Same for all of the other frames in the voting. If it were me, none of those frames would be on my list.

Best frame produced in the world we live in (that's easy):

Richard Sachs!!

CC
I doubt it...TJeanloz
Jan 6, 2002 8:49 AM
Richard builds incredible bikes- but they aren't for everybody. They aren't winning weight records, which is important to some people. They aren't the stiffest, best racing bikes in the world. They are the best frames in the world for some people, but Richard doesn't have a line of Euro-pros at his door for them.
Then if it's Euro-Pro's beating down the doors...Cima Coppi
Jan 6, 2002 6:47 PM
for the best frame, the winner must go to Antonio Mondonico. He has built many frames for riders in the European peloton. His frames are meticulously crafted, and his lug work is second to none. A rider can be assured of a frame that will last for thousands and thousands of miles when Antonio builds it.

As for the Sachs frames, his frames will fit everyone, because they are all custom built to the riders specs. Are they the lightest? No, but to me quality and strength far outweights frame weight. Take note as well that Jonathan Page will take his Sachs CX bike to Belgium to represent the U.S. in the Worlds. The world's best cyclists will have a chance to see the craftsmanship of a Sachs frame first hand.

CC
MondonicoTJeanloz
Jan 7, 2002 8:26 AM
I'm actually quite familiar with Mondonico frames- but I don't think he's had a superstar rider since Chiapucci (I definitely did not spell that right). Antonio and I had a quite interesting discussion about the merits of racing on steel frames when he visited our shop a couple of years ago.

As for Jonathan and Richard Sachs, it should be noted that Jonathan will ride whatever bike somebody else provides for him, and Richard was kind enough to be that person this year. I can assure you, he did not buy and pay for the RS because he thought it was the best bike. Also, cyclocross and road racing are completely different animals.
You have stated the truth about all bikes ridden by the pro'sCima Coppi
Jan 7, 2002 10:15 AM
TJ,

You are absolutely right about Page not choosing the Sachs frame because it is the best bike, and as you know this is often the case with every bike every pro rides. Thus my original answer somewhat holds true that bikes ridden by the pro's does not necessarily prove the bike is the greatest, even the Trek's the Postal boys ride. In CX, sponsorship of the bikes is very different than on the road. The bikes are put through much more abuse, and you'll often the riders on major trade teams for road racing use their own choice of CX frame for competition. For example, the Saturn team riders often use Empella's painted to resemble the Lemond's they ride on the road.

Page could easily dump Sachs as a sponsor if he felt the bikes were not capable of performing. I'd bet if one asked Page privately if he was comfortable with the Sachs frames, he'd respond quite positively.

CC
You have stated the truth about all bikes ridden by the pro'sTJeanloz
Jan 8, 2002 10:47 AM
It is a truth that pros ride whatever they get put under them. Jonathon is an interesting case (he's a pretty good friend of mine) where he's quite capable of riding for a lot of people, and Sachs (and some other people who want to see him succeed) have given him the ability to do things pretty much on his own terms and training plans. I know from experience that he's fast on a Huffy, but certainly he's pleased to be on a Sachs.
Mondonicogtx
Jan 7, 2002 10:18 AM
what was the gist of what Antonio Mondonico said about the merits of racing on steel frames?
Racing on steel...TJeanloz
Jan 8, 2002 10:51 AM
Well, it was kind of a fun conversation, because his english skills, and my italian skills both leave something to be desired. But his basic gist was that weight is really the least important of all factors to racers (except in pure hill climbs or mountain stages). And that the ability to tailor a steel bicycle to the rider and riding style outweighed any weight gain. He argued that steel was the most versitile material, and as such could be better suited to making an event specific frame.

And he continued by pointing out that steel was good enough for Merckx, Coppi, Hinault, et. al.
very coolgtx
Jan 8, 2002 11:18 AM
it will be interesting to see where steel is 10-20 years from now.
A couple of things,TJeanloz
Jan 6, 2002 8:47 AM
First of all, the sample size is relatively small (~1200) which may distort things a bit. Second of all, relative to the sample, the site is English speaking, so we might expect more fans of English speaking riders and their bikes.

Another thing to keep in mind is the numbers game. Colnago sponsers more than one pro team- Mapei, Rabobank, Coast and probably some others.

As for Trek: Americans sell Trek bicycles short because we think of Trek as a big, historyless, faceless corporate manufacturer. As opposed to Colnago- which we think is an artisans shop. The 5900 is probably among the most technologically advanced bikes in the peleton. Ask yourself this question: if you needed to win a race, which bike would give you the best shot? The 5900 is right up there. It lacks sex appeal, but it's one of the premier bikes on the road. Furthermore, keep in mind that the poll lumped together the 5900 and the TT bike- which is probably the most technologically advanced (UCI legal) TT bike in the world. A lot of people who answered 'Trek' were probably thinking of the TT machine when they filled in their survey.
Good discussion. More fuel:AUH
Jan 6, 2002 10:41 AM
Yes wouldn't it be interesting if pros had to ride unmarked, visually indisinguishable products; and if companies didn't advertise as if the bike won the race of it's own power.

I don't know if Anglophones living where Trek (or whatever) dealers abound are prone seeing that as a top brand, but maybe just the opposite. Sure, neophytes just beginning to get into the cycling world will first have saturated exposure to such ubiquitous brands and be taken by their aggressive overdone marketing hype.

But we're all familiar with the
'I'm so elite' effect that soon ensues, mostly in places where these brands are common (i.e. the U.S.): you begin think that they are dorky because they're all hyped up and everyone thinks they're cool, and so you start to worship after things that seem more exotic and elite; things that come from the bootshaped country, or from some esoteric master craftsman here that turns out 3 frames a year.

I'd say I fall into that category, even though like TJeanloz I'll agree the 5900 is functionally worthy if without all the mystique.

Definitely not a very proper and infallible survey, but still interesting results to consider.
Good discussion. More fuel:tr
Jan 6, 2002 12:50 PM
I couldn't have said it better and i too fall into the latter category.
I wanna be like Ja Jagtx
Jan 6, 2002 11:17 AM
A recent cover of the Excel sposts catalog with Jalabert riding a Look almost had me calling up and ordering one. The old OCLV was in a bit of a sales slump before Lance started winning on it. The only bikes I would actually consider buying from that list (if I had the money) are the Merckx, C-40, Look and Vortex. But I still prefer U.S. built steel to any on that list.
Compare this pollMel Erickson
Jan 7, 2002 6:47 AM
For all you american football fans out there compare this poll to the recently completed pro bowl selections. See any similarities? It's a popularity contest, period, and has no bearing whatsoever on which is the "best" bicycle. The choices are more affected by the teams/riders riding the bikes than most anything else. It's done purely to increase readership and make the sponsors happy. Just a guess but I'll bet 95% of the respondents have never ridden the bikes they rated.
Or compare it to,TJeanloz
Jan 7, 2002 8:37 AM
The easiest way to look at the poll's bias is to compare the teams poll to the UCI team rankings.

#1 in the CN.com poll is USPS- they're ranked 9th by the UCI.

Credit Agricole, a team with a large english speaking contingent, ranks 3rd in the poll, but 20th in the UCI rankings.

In fact 4 of the top 10 UCI ranked teams did not appear in the top ten in the reader's poll. This demonstrates clearly that it was a popularity contest, not a results contest.
Or compare it to,tempete
Jan 7, 2002 1:12 PM
I am a big fan of Cyclingnews.com, and I took that survey.
Once again, I say it, I'm just the average 32yr old guy with a day job and a house to pay.

My LBS is probably the best in town and they have an incredible selection; Specialized, Giant, Cannondale and such, but also all Colnago sizes, frames, colors. They also carry Look, Lemond, Aegis and much more. And I'm not talking about mtn bikes then...

I own and ride a Shimano 105 Giant TCR 2 which I got from these friendly and down to earth shop people. Am I a good, fast? who cares.

But if you ask me what my dream bike is...
What's the point in knowing if I test rode it or not. I love bicycles and would be happy to simply own a fancy titanium/carbon stays full Campied-out Rabobank replica. It's my dream. Wheater it rides better or is less suited to my style than my humble Giant is beyond the point here!

And I did test drive a noisy stiff-as ferrari and I would prefer to drive a Corvette. But I'd still like to own a Mundial.