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Suggestions cinelli vs viner(11 posts)

Suggestions cinelli vs vinerdealy663
Dec 23, 2001 9:10 PM
Afer a posting here a few days ago several people recommended checking out And sure enough Gary has a lot of stuff at great prices. I've kinda narrowed it down to two but can't ride them as no lbs' seem to have the bikes I'm interested in. He's offering both the Cinelli Genius Strada and Viner Competition with Ultegra components for $1295. These are the bikes that look most interesting to me. Any suggestions on which you would pick and why?

I'm just getting back to road bikes, and will be using it for riding to work twice a week for about 60miles a week. This is all for extra workouts to build strength for my primary biking modus operandi, mountain biking. I'm pretty much only interested in steel, but that's just cause I can't afford a titanium Airborne Zepplin! I figure I'll be doing some road rides on the weekends with the occasional century ride thrown in for good measure.

Thanks in advance!

The Cinelli GeniusDog Breath
Dec 23, 2001 11:53 PM
If you lust after a Ti bike, it will probably surprise you with its weight. In an average size look for a frame weight of about 3.7lbs or less. The suggested list of the Cinelli Genius frame alone was $1200, so a complete bike built up with Ultegra for $1295 is a bargain to put it mildly.

The Cinelli uses a Nivachrome tubing, while the Viner uses Chrome-Moly. The Cinelli tubing is superior for most applications. The Viner frame will probably weigh close to 4.5lbs.
Tubing referenceDog Breath
Dec 24, 2001 12:00 AM
Here is one tubing reference:
Tubing referencedealy663
Dec 24, 2001 7:19 AM
Hey that is a great link you supplied! Thanks. Any idea which type of steel the Viner frame is made of?

dedacciai zero tre..colker
Dec 24, 2001 9:37 AM
according to gary at gvh, very similar to reynolds 531 and tange prestige. it's the standard for that "magical feel of steel". good stuff.
TubingDog Breath
Dec 24, 2001 11:00 AM
The Viner Comp. uses a chrome moly tubing.
If you want a Viner with Nivachrome tubing like the Cinelli, the Viner Nemo would be comparable.

If you can afford the extra dollars I would recommend the Viner Nemo, if not the Cinelli Genius would probably offer sim. performance.
No advice on which frame, but . . .DCW
Dec 24, 2001 5:37 AM
once you choose a frame, keep in mind that you are not really constrained by his suggested built kit. None of these bikes is built yet, so your frame is an empty canvas. You can make substitutions, including the group. If you wanted to go with Daytona/Centaur 10 instead of the Ultegra 9, for example, it probably won't cost you anything. If you want to delete anything (say, the saddle), you'll get a deduction.

Friends and I have bought four or five bikes from him in the past couple of years. We have found him to be a very knowledgeable and straightforward guy, with many years and many hundreds (thousands?) of bikes of experience. He's also very good at fitting you from a distance, assuming you can provide accurate measurements (have a friend help and measure everything three times).

Ask him what upgrades he would recommend. The ones I would consider are headset and fork.

Good luck.
Dec 24, 2001 10:05 AM
My impression is that Genius and Zero Tre are comparable "second tier" steel (as opposed to Foco and Zero), and darned good materials. Ask Gary about weight if that's a concern, or about the tubes in general--he's very helpful.

I've ridden a Viner ProTeam made with Genius tubes for two years now and love it. Personally I'd go with the Viner.

Good luck.
Tubing referenceNessism
Dec 24, 2001 1:13 PM
Columbus tubing sets:

Cyclex steel (medium strength metal): SL, SLX, SP, SPX, TSX, PRX, others I am sure to miss...

Nivacrom steel (high strength metal): EL, ELOS, Nemo, Zonal, and Neuron.

Thermacrom (highest strength): Foco

Dedacciai tubing: only one name used with each grade.

ZeroTre (medium strength) - similar to Cyclex

ZeroUno (high strength) - similar to Nivacrom

Zero (highest) - similar to Thermacrom

Bottom line...Genius is a higher grade tubeset than ZeroTre.
what about dedacciai 18dm6v ?colker
Dec 25, 2001 4:31 AM
where does it sit on the hierarchy? i've got a new bike made with the stuff.
what about dedacciai 18dm6v ?Nessism
Dec 25, 2001 6:14 PM
Dedacciai ZeroTre is made from 25CrMo4 steel (chromoly), ZeroUno is made from 18MCDV6 steel and Zero is made from heat treated 18MCDV6HT (HT denoting heat teatment).

ZeroUno is a well balanced tubeset in terms of stiffness, weight, durability, and cost. Zero may be thinner and lighter but it is also more fragile, more flexable, and more expensive. Take your choice.

Link to some technical details.