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scandium?(21 posts)

scandium?adam
Dec 14, 2001 8:13 AM
I'm looking at buying the new merckx sc -- my bike shop is quite complimentary and seems to really like the scandium. I haven't heard much about it and would love input from anyone who's familiar -- how does it compare to aluminum, both in terms of ride and durability (I currently have a klein quantum pro)? Thank you!
re: scandium?TJeanloz
Dec 14, 2001 8:20 AM
It is aluminum.
re: scandium is aluminumMr Metalhead
Dec 14, 2001 1:17 PM
Scandium is not aluminum. Scandium is an element itself, atomic number 21, Symbol SC, Atomic weight is 44.956

Aluminum:
atomic number 13, Symbol AL, Atomic weight is 26.981
FunnyNessism
Dec 14, 2001 8:41 PM
Scandium is an alloying element not the base metal. The base metal is aluminum therefor "scandium" bicycle tubing is an aluminum alloy.
You are right.Mr Metalhead
Dec 15, 2001 3:31 AM
You are absolutely correct. I believe the SC is less than 1% by weight of the AL alloy.
re: scandium?tad
Dec 14, 2001 8:49 AM
I don't know anyone that has that particular bike, but I do have a friend with a scandium bike. He loves it...says it's stiff yet supple.

Are you buying the bike from the shop? How much? I'm interested in getting one also but don't know where a dealer is.
re: scandium?MCCL
Dec 14, 2001 9:57 AM
Try interbike.co.uk/ They can also have a custom built SC. This bike was written up in Bicycling Mag. and given probably the best score for the bunch of bikes they tested that were competing in the TDF. But as the others say Scandium seems to wear out in two years. I don't know but keep hearing it. Good Luck.MCCL
Your bike shop is planning ahead.Dog Breath
Dec 14, 2001 8:49 AM
For now they are happy with the big profit they can make on a high-end frame set you probably do not need. In the coming years when the Merckx becomes toast, they hope to sell you another frame.

Of course they like scandium.
re: scandium?feathers mcgraw
Dec 14, 2001 8:55 AM
I've got a Kona sc mtb. The ride is NICE, the frame is super light. Sc makes a real strong al alloy, which allows for thin walled tubes, which makes for the supple ride. The tubes are real thin and easily dented, however. There's a reason sc frames don't come with long warranties.
re: scandium?ohio
Dec 14, 2001 10:17 AM
it is aluminum that has been alloyed with scandium that gives it much much better fatigure characteristics. Which means it can be built with smaller diameter tubing, which allows for a more forgiving supple ride. The only reason it's so thin walled is that it's strong enough that you can do that, and it allows for feather-lite frames. If they were making durable 3.5 lbs frames out of it, no one would be able to hail it as a wonder metal, though I think that's the route builders and Easton should be taking.

It could be aluminum light, and ride like steel, cost less than titanium, and be pretty durable, if there wasn't such an obsession with ridiculous low frame weights.
scandium Merckx SCTig
Dec 14, 2001 10:58 AM
One of my LBS's sells Merckx and I know of 2 people that will be building their new SC's soon. That means I have no idea how this frame rides until then. Unfortunately, one of the guys is a newbie with more money than sense, and he doesn't have but one bike to compare it to. My best but worthless guess would be that it will ride similar to your Klein. If you like the ride you have, stay with it and upgrade wheels or shifters and derailleurs instead. If you just HAVE to have a new frame, check out Klein's new Q-Pro Carbon.

The Merckx A1ACI fork is beautiful. I forgot who really makes it though. A 1215 gram frame is attractive, but at what price? Others have said scandium has a short life span. I doubt the Merckx will be any better unless they have something up their sleeve (unlikely). A short life span doesn't matter in the sponsored pro world, but is sure does to you and I! For the $1800+ price of the SC, you can find some great frame sets that will last 10 times longer if you want.

I'll be going with the Merckx Fuga. It uses 7000 aluminum with a CF seat stay. All I want is 5 years of guaranteed frame life. Besides, the LBS is a sponser that gives me a great discount. The only frame I'd keep longer would be a classic steel or a high end Ti or CF.
scandium Merckx SCgtx
Dec 14, 2001 11:07 AM
the Merckx geometry is pretty much the polar opposite of Klein--it's much more laid back. Perceived ride quality is often very influenced by how a rider fits on a bike. I would suggest that if he fits well/likes the geometry of the Klein (with it's steep 74 degree STA) he may not be comfortable on the Merckx with its slack seat tube angle and longer c-stays.

I agree about the possible durability issues of the bike, though in general Merckx tends to overbuild stuff a bit (though this may not be the case with the SC).

-Hank (rides an old steel Merckx, and would love to have a SC)
one point of viewDog
Dec 14, 2001 11:01 AM
I race with a local guy who builds frames under the "Flow" brand. He has made some scandium frames. He refused to make me one, stating that they are far too noodley for anyone over 135 pounds.

Don't know myself -- just passing it on.

Dog
this is how urban myths get started and BS gets spread!!!nfm-
Dec 14, 2001 11:11 AM
nm
talk to the builder yourself, thenDog
Dec 14, 2001 11:19 AM
This info came straight from a framebuilder who has actually made scandium frames. How the heck can that be classified as a myth or B.S.? Give me your e-mail address and I'll hook you up with the builder directly.

If you have some meaningful information, let's see it.

Dog
though I imagine...gtx
Dec 14, 2001 12:42 PM
that Merckx isn't going to skimp in the beef department, judging purely from Eddy's approach to framebuilding in the past (so I could be wrong of course). Eddy ain't no weight weenie, and I doubt he would build a flimsy frame.
material vs. tubesDog
Dec 14, 2001 2:54 PM
Yes, Eddy could be using vastly different tube shapes than my friend the builder. I do think it might be mistake to confuse shapes and materials. This builder uses pretty straight forward tubing, not the weird tubes like Bianchi's EV2, etc., where you can get a lot more stiffness with lightweight materials, and still get some compliance in certain directions.

Dog
more on scandiumTig
Dec 14, 2001 4:16 PM
I did a little searching on scandium frames. First off, scandium is only an alloy used in aluminum alloyed tubing and costs about $3000 per pound. The standard alloy mix is about .4% scandium. The alloying of it in aluminum was first patented in 1971 in the US.

One triathlete has a page on his observations of identical geometry and components of two bikes from Quintana Roo, with the exception of one using Easton Ultralight aluminum, and one with scandium. The scandium used smaller diameter tubing, and the ride was slightly smoother. He admitted that he was no expert, but could feel a little difference on the compliance relating to road vibrations, or as he put it, "the Ultralight bike rides like it has about 5 more pounds of pressure in the tires [than the scandium]".
uh, not the same bikessike
Dec 14, 2001 4:30 PM
smaller diameter tubing had nothing to do with the perceived difference?

if it rides like 5lbs less air pressure, why not just use 5lbs less air pressure and save $$$?

who can really tell a difference of 5lbs air pressure anyway???
re: scandium?Wilier Mortirolo (SC)
Dec 15, 2001 4:51 PM
Ahhh.... but it's all in the design...

Not that I've ridden it, but you really can't go wrong with the Merckx.

About scndium - there are apparently 3 sources. There's Easton Scandium, which I think is the only "known" source of scandium tubing. This is what my bike is made of. Number 3 is Dedaccai SC 61.10. Someone might want to check on this, but I don't think dedaccai ever released the chemical architecture of SC 61.10 and everyone has just assumed it's a scandium alloy. This is what the Merckx is made of. Number 3 is stuff from Taiwan or China. Quattro Assi makes some of these.

As for the design of the Merckx frame. Apparently what makes a huge diference is using carbon fiber chain stays instead of seat stays. You get better damping there I guess - but again I don't know - just pointing out the difference...
Merckx is Easton tubingDMoore
Dec 15, 2001 6:06 PM
Merckx SC frames are made from Easton SC7000 tubing. From all reports the Dedacciai "SC" tubeset is NOT a Scandium alloy. It's very light, no question, but Dedacciai has never claimed that their tubing has any Sc in the alloy, and Easton has claimed to have the the only Sc alloy bike tubing available.

The Easton tubing is very easily spotted because of the externally butted top and down tubes. There's a very visible reduction in tubing diameter about 6" or so from the head tube. The QA bikes, by the way, also have the visible change in tubing diameter.

So I don't think there are three sources of Sc alloy bike tubing - there's only Easton.