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NEW- Alrighty you guys who have been nailed by cars(62 posts)

NEW- Alrighty you guys who have been nailed by carsC-mond
Nov 28, 2001 3:32 PM
multiple times. Who are the worst drivers? Only the crashes that were not your fault.

I have been hit twice- neither my fault. Both were black women. And I was not riding in the ghetto or anything.

I am not drawing conclusions so nobody get upset. Just interested in alittle informal statistical anaylsis.
re: NEW- Alrighty you guys who have been nailed by carstachShoppe
Nov 28, 2001 4:04 PM
well never got nailed by a moving car, but i've nailed a couple of cars though... plus the occasional door in the face. I've noticed from riding in heavy traffic of SF, and SD, asian women are worst at looking right at you but not seeing that you're there. i've had quite a few close calls with those. not to be racist, cause i'm chinese too.
my "worst driver" was probably a 9 iron!!!!!!rollo tommassi
Nov 29, 2001 7:38 AM
riding next to a fareway - someone sliced their tee shot really really high over the fence - and I heard a "smack" on the pavement ahead of me then WHACK! right in the side of my helmet!!!! (another reason to wear a helmet)

Needless to say, the "driver" did not get his ball back!!
In TRAFFIC...ohio
Nov 29, 2001 1:11 PM
I learned quickly here in boston. Day or night, I commute in bright top, reflective bottoms, TWO front WLED strobes (obnoxious but the get lotsa attention) and a rear LED strobe.

Now I see people about to pull out in front of me, then they suddenly stop as they realize a UFO is approaching. Same with getting doored. My only problem is drivers can't stand the idea of being stuck behind a biker, so on narrower roads they'll try and pass me (even though I'm usually moving at the same speed as traffic) then get stuck next to me because there's a car in front, then push me into the curb/parked cars. Not so sweet, but if I just slow down, I can usually slip in behind them and avoid any problems...
Tree branches are worse than cars. Trust me. (nm)Elefantino
Nov 28, 2001 4:11 PM
says the man who's scared of his wife (nm)naf geezer
Nov 28, 2001 4:15 PM
Nope. squirels are the worst!firstrax
Nov 28, 2001 4:58 PM
Nah, full grown deer.grzy
Nov 29, 2001 10:57 AM
Never assume that you know what a deer is going to do or not do.
some more dataSamDC
Nov 28, 2001 4:27 PM
been hit twice...
first time didn't see the driver

second time was an old caucasian woman

been brushed by an African woman (not considering it a hit since I didn't fall off my bike).

Anyway, I'm starting to see some generalities, but I'm not gonna be the one to state it explicitly.
Once and only once...DINOSAUR
Nov 28, 2001 4:51 PM
I got nailed back in the late 70's by a guy driving a pickup truck making a left turn out of a private road. I thought he saw me, but he didn't. I later found out I broke my rear axel. Never again did I take it for granted that a motorist sees me even when I have the right-away. I can't count the number of accidents I have avoided by this experience.

My worst crash is when I went down and no one was around me and I ate the asphalt. I think my worst fear is over confidence and I learned not to ride over my head, especially when descending...
Nov 28, 2001 4:54 PM
According to CHP motor copper who I took a 3 day defensive motorsickle class from: "if you get hit by a car it's is entirely your fault." This shocked all of us, but not after he explained that on a motor cycle you can out brake, out acclerate and out turn any car on the road. For them to hit you means that you weren't situationally aware enough to take action that would have avoided the entire thing. If you ride like you're invisible then you'll begin to understand how cars see you: they don't. While all of this isn't totally true on a bicycle it emphasises the concept of defensive driving - you have a whole lot more to lose than anyone in a car so you should ride like you fully understand this. You don't need to be a chicken but you must think ahead and anticipate what the car may do. Most drivers honestly don't see you and it has very little to do with demographics.

In a way you're sort of baiting everyone on the board. If there appears to be some correlation with this totally unscientific sstudy then people will want to draw conclusions - better watch out for XXXXX XXXXX (fill in your favorite sterotype) driver's they're the worst. Why is it that some some bicyclists never get hit by cars and others get smacked all the time? Anything to do with the rider. I've been hit (older white gentleman) and hit cars (middle aged white male), but it has been a long time - in all cases it was the result of some assumptions that *I* made (they're not going to turn in front of me b/c they see me, etc..). After a while I became tired of going to the ER, filling out insurance forms, repairing messed up bikes, and growing skin back.

I began to realize that close calls meant I was riding too aggresively for the situation and didn't have an "out". "Accidents" are just dope slaps for the slow learners. I'll close by saying that yes, you really can get plowed into from behind while riding in a bike lane on a clear sunny day or get deliberately run off the road by a logging truck or a redneck in a pick'em up, but I choose to use a mirror for this very reason.
Commuting Experienceflybyvine
Nov 28, 2001 5:59 PM
I have to agree that from my experience commuting in Singapore (heavy fast moving traffic) spacial awareness is the most crucial thing in avoiding death. I have close calls almost every day but 99% of them I can see them well in advance & know they have do idea that I am there (changing lanes on top of me, pulling out of side streets with stop signs). Sure it pisses me off & I usuall rap on the drivers window as I ride past & say "hello" (with a smile !!) but I am really no where near death because I never assume people see me or are going to obey the traffic rules (even the Police don't but I don't swear at them :-)

Mind you if I had to point the fingure at any one class of person, all I can say is that they are usually vertically challenged (i.e. I can't see any driver in the car) and drive a Mercedes (Merc's seem to increase the road ownership view of the driver).

Since I started commuting (as opposed to training / racing), I have only hit one car and that was completelly my fault - a van turned in front of me (with turn signal) but I was asleep and shoulder charged the side of his van. He was quite stunned as I pushed off & rode on.
Commuting Experience...Reader's Digest Large Print Edition??? nmAhimsa
Nov 28, 2001 6:08 PM
nevermind...some mfer has been screwing w/ txt size on CPU (nm)Ahimsa
Nov 28, 2001 6:12 PM
Let us know when he's been caught and punished. ;-) nmgrzy
Nov 29, 2001 10:55 AM
Well saidkenyee
Nov 28, 2001 7:07 PM
For the people who get into accidents multiple times, I'd be curious what their driving records are like as well.

Drive defensively. Even in a car accident, you can still get hurt. And even if you win a lawsuit, is it really worth the pain and hospital time? (Yeah, I know, can't guard against the person who hits you unexpectedly)-:
Nov 29, 2001 9:47 AM
This is kind of going off topic, but I'm familar with CHP Motors. Never rode one, but worked around them for years. The joke was there were two types of motor riders, those who go down and those who go down again. I can't remember one motor rider who had never taken a spill. The main culprit was diesel fuel on off/on ramps. I knew one rider who got killed after being struck from behind by a drunk driver after completing a traffic stop on the freeway. Another was a good friend who got lane changed on a surface street. Actually they say the hardest part about riding motors (beside making in through motor school which is very difficult) is putting up with the weather. In the summer you are litterally riding on top on a hot engine in 100 degree heat. In the winter you are all bundled up and go between freezing your ass off to sweating like a pig when you are indoors because of all the layers of cloths you have on.
But you are dead on about being invisible. People don't see cyclists. They are programed for looking for cars. My worst fear is getting run over from behind, but I've read that statistics indicate that around 20% of cycling accidents are from getting run over from traffic behind them.
Most the accidents I investigated involving serious cyclists were solo collisions resulting from driving too fast for conditions or road hazards.
Every once in a blue moon I'll have some idiot go blowing by me missing me by inches. Come to think of it most of them are females, not that a male driver hasn't come close.
I get irritated fast, and have flipped drivers off after they have gone blasting by, which is not a wise thing to do.
I think if they came back I would beat them to death with by bicycle which is the only thing I have close to being a weapon.
A lot of it is just plain rudeness, but it goes beyond rudeness when your life is on the line.
All said and done I'll take my chances riding my bike on the back country roads where I live then driving on the freeway. I've also mentioned to my wife that if I bite the big one I'd rather go doing something I love then sitting on my butt in my recliner watching TV and have my heart stop.
3 Kinds of Ridersgrzy
Nov 29, 2001 10:54 AM
Simialr thinking....

Our retired CHP'er instructor type said there were three kinds of motorcycle riders: those that have crashed, those that will go crash, and those that will crash again and again. It's up to each rider to decide which category they fit into.

He also pointed out that any damn fool can ride a bike fast, but it takes skill and practice to ride it slowly and be able to manauver. You should've seen the number of times that crocth rockets got dumped.

I also flip drivers off without thinking when I'm started. My biggest fear is that some gun-toter with a short fuse is going to go ballistic on me - literally.
why not just run you off the road?kenyee
Nov 29, 2001 8:16 PM
I'm always puzzled by comments like that. Why fire a shot and leave evidence behind when they have a 2 ton weapon they could use to run you off the road and have you slam into stuff so you kill yourself instead? All they'd have to do is loop around you and stalk you w/ their car until they find a nice dangerous area to run you into. They don't even have to hit you, just scare you enough to make you lose control...
Yeah, but....grzy
Nov 30, 2001 9:57 AM
We're not talkin about calm rational individuals figuring out how to carefully wipe out cyclists. You're dealing with some redneck who's little head does most of the thinking - when ever that is - they just want to scare you and see you wipe out in their rear view mirror. When you flip them off it suddenly becomes personal and they have to finish it. It's like you just insulted their truck or choice of power tools.
The way I perceive thingsDutchy
Nov 28, 2001 4:55 PM
I have noticed men are always more aggresive drivers, while women don't seem to be aware of anything around them.

So from this: Men will hit you and do lot's of damage. While women are more likely to be ridden into
as they will pull out in front of you without ever seeing you.

Only once.look271
Nov 28, 2001 4:59 PM
By a lilly-white college girl. She turned left across traffic right in front of me. Landed on the hood, pounding on it furiously, cursing and screaming (adrenline is such a natural high!). It's an image I'm sure she won't forget soon!
nailed by carsTig
Nov 28, 2001 5:07 PM
A college girl hit me at a light because she wasn't paying attention. Drivers from India have to be the worst. If they drive a Volvo, they are twice as bad!

The most dangerous road users are fellow cyclists. Most bike crashes are caused by someone overlaping tires and taking you down.
Do brush-bys count?McAndrus
Nov 28, 2001 5:23 PM
The car didn't actually hit me but came so close it forced me off the road and I crashed.

This was one of four real crashes I've had in my cycling years but the only one where a driver was clearly at fault. (It doesn't count when I put the wrong foot down at a corner, does it? :-))

I was the last bike of a line of three on a quiet country road. It was a narrow two-laner and the three of us were minding our own business when I noticed a car on my left.

As I watched, he crept closer and closer to me. After a couple of moments it was clear he was going to hit me so I ditched the bike.

I did a header just like Ullrich in Le Tour this year, going a$$ over handlebars and I landed in the front lawn of a farm house.

After the fact I learned he then went around my riding buddies without incident. I yelled something as I went down and in the confusion neither one got a license number.

I lay on my bike with my feet stuck in the pedals and my left foot at a scary angle. I couldn't tell if it was broken but it turned out to be just twisted.

On the farmhouse porch were two kids, watching. My buddies came back to me and disconnected me from my bike which wasn't really hurt. I'd taken almost the full impact on my back when I rolled over. I shook myself off, checked out the bike, and the three of us got back on and finished the ride. The two kids still sat on their porch, stunned. They never moved or said a word - brats!

I say the driver was "he" because I had to say something. I never got a look at the driver or a clear look at the car. The right front fender was blue, though.
Middle aged white male. first thing he his mother (nm)vanzutas
Nov 28, 2001 5:27 PM
Does a goose count?bikerduder
Nov 28, 2001 5:49 PM
I got hit by a car last week - nice middle aged lady who is also a biker. She was backing out of a parking space and her view was blocked by an SUV. She paid for damages too.

Strangest was coming around a downhill bend at 20 mph on a local river trail and scaring up a flock of 25 or so geese. Was unable to avoid one late starter and he hit me full force in the chest. I managed to stay on the bike, but it knocked the wind out of me and I had a green stain on my jersey. I have no idea what happened to the goose.
Are you OK?tarwheel
Nov 29, 2001 4:47 AM
What were the damages? She didn't mess up the "new" LeMond, did she?
Are you OK?bikerduder
Nov 30, 2001 5:40 PM
Tom - I'm OK now, but still stiff. It shook me up pretty good, thought I had a concussion for a while. Only damange was scratched seat, bar tape and lense on sunglasses, which she has reimbursed me for - $135. She's a biker too and felt pretty bad. Not that I excuse her for it, but her view was blocked by an SUV parked next to her. I was lucky!. Funny thing was, when I came to, she was just coming up to me, so it couldn't have been more than a few seconds. I got up and immediately started checking out the bike, wasn't even thinking about what damage there was to me!
Who are the worst drivers?Ahimsa
Nov 28, 2001 6:13 PM
Especially people in cars.


Haven't actually been HIT since the mid to late 60's ...Humma Hah
Nov 28, 2001 6:27 PM
... when I was bumped by a young white woman driving a car older than she was, distracted by her young'un in the seat beside her.

I've been doored about 3 times, most recently about a year and a half ago. Twice by men, once by a woman.

I had a car pull out in front of me while I was going downhill at a very fast pace, I believed the driver had eye contact with me but he pulled out anyway. White male, middle-aged. I recall tagging his bumper with my right pedal, no damage to me or the bike, although my shorts may have needed a wash in chlorine bleach.

I don't believe race or sex has much to do with it, at least not directly. What may be at work is a phenomenon discovered in regards to motorcycles: people who report not having seen the motorcycle they hit almost invariably do not ride one, and have nobody in their immediate family who do. Motorcycles don't register to them. Bicycles almost certainly have the same problem. Any race or gender effects probably stem from the perponderance of that population who don't ride.
It should be mandatoryC-squared
Nov 28, 2001 7:32 PM
that before you get a drivers license, you should have to ride a bike in traffic for a while. And at every license renewal, you should have to also. That might raise driver awareness....
re: NEW- Alrighty you guys who have been nailed by carsfuzzybunnies
Nov 28, 2001 9:38 PM
Hit a couple times while riding always by a woman and a couple times while walking always by men, always seems to be people not paying attention while pulling out of a driveway or side road so never fast enough to do more than some parts damage and a few days of bruises. Nearly been doored only once and it was by a large truck with the bottom of the door at face level while in a crouch. Ducked just in time, guy looked to apologetic for me to really yell. -Russ
re: NEW- Alrighty you guys who have been nailed by carsFrank
Nov 28, 2001 11:23 PM
I was hit a few years back by a 15 year old girl with no license and her mother in the front seat. I was riding south on a 2 lane highway and she was approaching from the rear and wanted to turn off to the right on a side road to go to her boyfriend's house. She didn't want to wait for me to pass the side road or underestimated my speed or thought if she slowed down she would have been hit from behind (she gave all 3 stories to the highway patrol) and turned right in front of me.

She hit my front tire (thank God didn't hit me from behind and run over me) and knocked me and the bike down the paved side road where we both skidded for a while. I truly remember it clearly was really like it happened in slow motion, remember yelling and pushing off the car with my left arm as the car pushed me down, and remember laying there just seeing if everything still moved and thanking God nothing was broken and that I was alive.

Driver had no license or driver's learning permit, and no insurance by the driver or mother, but thankfully the owner of the vehicle did have coverage and all was taken care of. They did offer to take me to the hospital, but I accepted an offer from an EMT who happened to be following her and saw the whole thing. He said it was like watching a train want to look away because you know what is happening but you just can't. He took my bike home and me to the hospital where I was sewed up and released.

Things I learned:
I always ride with a mirror now and have prevented similar accidents by seeing the same scenario getting ready to occur.

You will come out of Look pedals without thinking about it in a wreck if you are hit hard enough.

Some people don't learn easily...15 year old girl who swore she would never drive was ticketed not a month later for driving without a license.

Some insurance companies will let you keep a damaged bike for salvage value (10-20% of what they pay for the new one) even when they pay full replacement for a new one.

Some scars and bumps never go away ;-)
I'm a very defensive rider, but have had some very close calls.Leisure
Nov 29, 2001 12:42 AM
The worst have been when I was an undergrad at Cornell. On some level it's odd to me that it was worse there than in Utah where I live (friggin' Suburban heaven, among other things), but some of it is just how diverse transportation is allowed to be in different areas. The attitude around Cornell/Ithaca, socially and legally, was that there are only two forms of transportation righteous in the eyes of God: walking and cars. I've had pedestrians come off the sidewalk and on the street specifically to body-check me and then walk back onto the sidewalk!
With cars at least I have been good at seeing stupidity in advance and have been able to avoid quite a few accidents that I shouldn't have. The most difficult were the people that would slowly pull up from behind at right turns and suddenly swerve at me. I thoroughly agree with Hummahuh and C-squared that bicycling should be required before driving. Even if it were only part of driver's ed and people were forced to ride bikes in traffic for say ten total hours in a group spread across a few weekends it would probably help a lot. I think riding first-hand would really educate the more oblivious drivers that bicycles do in fact exist and are on the road. Among more aggressive drivers, it would hopefully diffuse some of the expectation that bicyclists are somehow always obligated to magically get out of everyone else's way even when it's not physically feasible. It's all about learned empathy.

Here's an interesting stat: women cause 2/3 of all car accidents while men cause 2/3 of all car accident damage.
re: NEW- Alrighty you guys who have been nailed by carsmorey
Nov 29, 2001 3:58 AM
I have been hit twice. One was an old lady that was lost, and scared. Very minor accident. The other was a hit-run, sustained damage to my head and shoulders. Dislocated shoulder (III), broke shoulder. Since I did not have a helmet on (1992), I suffered head injuries including a concussion. As I was a pro bodybuilder, this effectively ended my career. I was on a bike path. it was 6:30 am.
re: NEW- Alrighty you guys who have been nailed by carsmorey
Nov 29, 2001 4:29 AM
By the way, the hit-run was found. Male, 26yo. Felt he paid taxes, bikers did not, and did not deserve to be on the road. What an asshole!
i was hit by a gangster's wife..colker
Nov 29, 2001 4:01 AM
she tried to bribe the police, proceeded to insult me("jew" this and that) and called the husband's bodyguards.
wow, between you and morey it's pretty unbelieveable.Leisure
Nov 29, 2001 4:56 AM
then i called the office from emergency,colker
Nov 29, 2001 8:31 AM
expecting simpathy. i was commuting to the lab, carrying some rolls of films to develop. a free lance photo job. the boss, my ex girl friend, told me "i had a deadline and she wouldn't hear any excuses".
life is a b*tch.
re: NEW- Alrighty you guys who have been nailed by carspmf1
Nov 29, 2001 6:50 AM
I was going down the Rosslyn hill headed into work in DC when some ditzy young woman pulled right out in front of me. I hit her car broad side, went flying. I was uninjured and my bike was OK sans a tacoed front wheel. I go down that hill a lot slower these days.
Once. Old man. turned right in front of me in thegreg n
Nov 29, 2001 7:16 AM
middle of the road to swing a U-turn. I t-boned him and flew over the car. My buddy thought I was dead. When you're able to get up and walk away from something like that, you don't think about (well, at least I didn't) calling the police, paramedics, etc. right away, or anything like that. First thing the old fart says when he got out the car is "I didn't even see you coming." That's odd, because I was wearing a bright yellow and red jersey.

The good thing was I was on my mt. bike instead of my road bike. Otherwise my road bike probably would've folded in half. I came away with a bent handlebar and cracked headset. And I put a nice big dent in the passenger-side door of his big, fat Cadillac when I hit it.
Once. Old man. turned right in front of me in thePeleton Pedro
Nov 29, 2001 12:38 PM
I know the feeling. While commuting to work in DC I was hit by a old guy who sped up to pass then turned right at the next intersection. He cut in front and I t-boned his big Buick at the rear door. I pretzeled my front wheel, flipped over the handlebars and (thankfully) landed on my rear. Stunned, I found myself sitting on the pavement when he pulled over, immediately looked at his car and started yelling at me for hitting his car! Never once asked how I was, then he got in his car and drove off. If I hadn't had so many cobwebs in my head, I would have gotten his license plate and reported him.

Two decades earlier in NJ, I t-boned a young guy on a Harley who was coming toward me and turned left into the intersection. This time, I pretzeled my entire front end and once again flipped mid-air and landed on my rear. He never even slowed down, so once again I was left dazed on the ground. I don't think I can take a third incident.
Never been hit...Brooks
Nov 29, 2001 8:02 AM
but I ride defensively and try not to "zone out" with traffic around. Most close calls were the drivers wanting to make that right turn without waiting for me to pass the intersection, either misjudging my speed, not seeing me or just too impatient. Recent close call was an SUV which gave me clearance on a narrow busy two lane, BUT he was pulling a trailer with a boat that passed just over my shoulder. Urban riding I'm always on the lookout for people in parked cars.

Ride safely,
No contestNewsflash
Nov 29, 2001 10:00 AM
Woman + cell phone + car = latent accident
re: NEW- Alrighty you guys who have been nailed by carsmorey
Nov 29, 2001 10:38 AM
I must admit (in my area), people tend to think bicycle riders are a PIA. I have been called names, things thrown at me, and numerous near misses. In my area its mostly men who are the agressors.
re: NEW- Alrighty you guys who have been nailed by carsmorey
Nov 29, 2001 10:38 AM
Wow! So many opinions and sooooo many gernalizations here!Kristin
Nov 29, 2001 2:16 PM
Who are the worst drivers? Anyone who fits into the following categories:
* Unaware, unfocused or otherwise clueless drivers
(people who with slow CPU's)
* Distracted drivers (food, kids, cell phones, radios, etc...)
* Angry drivers (anyone who thinks they own the road)

We each fall into one or more of these categories at various times. And a select few of us take up residence in a particular category. I don't think that you can draw this along racial lines. And I'm sorry, but two experiences does not an expert make.

The Unaware/unalert driver category is the most dangerous because its the most prevailant in our society, and because its a cronic condition. This category consists of people seem to process data more slowly than the "norm". It does NOT fall along racial lines, though some cultures may be more suseptable. Things that can cause "slow thinking":
* A poor socio-economic back ground
* Growing up in a country with a highly controlling government
* No exposure to driving/cars/roadway systems while growing up

So many foreigners fall into this category, not on account of their race, but rather their background. Most American-bred, middle-class people don't fall into this category because they were taught to think critically, solve problems, make decissions, etc...etc...

Let me play devil's advocate. Should the right to drive be limited only to those who demonstrate an ability to think quickly, react quickly and can demonstrate alertness?
Wow! So many opinions and sooooo many gernalizations here!DINOSAUR
Nov 29, 2001 6:24 PM
If the right to operate a motor vehicle was determined by your criteria half the people wouldn't be driving. IMHO if people just obeyed basic traffic laws the roads would be a lot safer. I think it just boils down to common sense and responsibility, two things that are lacking in our society on a whole. Race is not an issue, nor sex or age. Lots and lots of bad drivers out there, I could write a book but you wouldn't believe it and you'd probably quit driving...I saw a show on TV once and the worse stretch of highway in the world for traffic accidents is in Portugal, believe it or not....
It's truemuncher
Nov 30, 2001 10:57 AM
Portugal has the highest road accident rate (and fatality rate) in Europe by a mile. The main reason for this is, apparently, the big macho culture associated with drink driving - these guys (and is it almost exclusively guys) will just not have their sytle cramped by the law in this regard.

DO NOT drive in Portugal if you value you life.

There endeth the lesson...
Wow! So many opinions and sooooo many gernalizations here!look271
Nov 30, 2001 3:58 PM
I agree with both of you except for one little word-right. Driving is NOT a right; it is a privilege, therefore that privilege can be taken away.
It's technically a privilegekenyee
Nov 29, 2001 8:18 PM
Nothing in the Bill Of Rights about a right to drive a horse-drawn carriage or have a horse :-)
Nov 30, 2001 3:03 AM
To answer your question, yes, people's privilege to drive should in part be determined by their ability to think critically and quickly. However, having seen American middle-class education in action compared to Germany, Thailand, Japan, etc., I can say it would be middle-class Americans losing their license's, not foreigners. The precollegiate educational system for most of the rest of the world far surpasses our own, though you are most certainly correct to define it as an issue of culture as opposed to race.
I think driver's licences and privileges should be graded according to your record and driver's ed aptitude. Example: people that just barely pass driver's ed courses or have poor driving records should have to follow lower speed limits, while people with exceptional driving records could use a non-speed-restricted lane on highways. Could you imagine how hard everyone would suddenly work to be excellent drivers if this were the case?
Nov 30, 2001 4:02 AM
For me, it has been the fact that drivers feel bicyclists do not belong on the road. They seem to have the misguided impression that only people with cars pay taxes (driving).
Why do they think this? or are they just jealous because we are doing something to stay in shape, and taxes is just their rationalization?
Walking in shoes...throwback to learned empathy.Leisure
Nov 30, 2001 6:27 AM
I think you're right that taxes are just a rationalization. Jealousy may apply to some too. But ultimately, I think the most universal problem is the fact that most of them have never seen things from a bicyclist's perspective. That's why I suggested above they should make group bike rides a part of driver's-ed.
Well Well....DINOSAUR
Nov 30, 2001 9:46 AM
I think the reason why American drivers become irratated with bicyclists is because they are forced to take their big fat foots off of their accelerators for 10 seconds to avoid running over some guy/gal decked out in lycra that is in better shape then they have been since they were in the 8th grade... In another light I must add that I must live in cycling heaven as I rarely have trouble with motorist. My worst recent encounter (sorry Kristin) was with a blond haired fuzzy haired gal driving a black BMW that had a fond use for laying on her horn. I would have like to take that horn and place it up some place on her body where the sun doesn't sun. Luckily she failed to heed my beckoning middle finger otherwise I'd be doing time in the slammer being Bubba's cell mate....sorry- bad case of cabin fever haven't ridden since the 19th, the rain hasn't stopped....drip drip drip.
The author apologizes if he has offended anyone. Just take a deep breath, count to ten and take a step away from the computer for a minute...I might be a prime canidate for Tuesday's with Dr Phil on Oprah...
No offense takenKristin
Nov 30, 2001 1:27 PM
Telling a story about almost ripping that woman a new one does not offend to me. Now if you'd declared that I am a bad driver just because I share a chomosone(sp?) with her....well then that would be another issue. There should be a law that takes nice cars away from wealthy, bad drivers and gives them to poor, yet talented drivers like myself! Don't you agree?

Dr. Phil and Oprah? Now there's a perscription for ulcers and high blood pressure. Mutual self worshipping at its best! I could gag.
No offense takenDINOSAUR
Nov 30, 2001 3:20 PM
I think you took my message the wrong way...I really don't know whay in the heck you are talking about. I was thinking about deleting the part about blonds, maybe I should have. It wasn't directed at you..wish I had Oprah's money, I wouldn't be sitting here at this computer. I think someone needs to go for a long ride, I know I do but the weather won't let me...
Memory not what it used to be?Kristin
Nov 30, 2001 3:36 PM
You said, "My worst recent encounter (sorry Kristin) was with a blond haired fuzzy haired gal driving a black BMW that had a fond use for laying on her horn."

I was jest... I stated that I was NOT offended by your comments. I implied in my next statement, that had you suggested all women were bad drivers, I would have taken offense. I think that you've read an entirely wrong tone into my message. Please read my posts as if they are being written by a friend, because I'm a friendly person. K? :-)
Memory not what it used to be?DINOSAUR
Nov 30, 2001 4:07 PM
I typed about three reponses to your post, all of them with with nasty comments. Then I thought about the general forum pact that no one probably remembers anymore and thought it would be silly go any further over this whole issue...
I'm sorry..Kristin
Nov 30, 2001 4:38 PM
I really don't get it? What did I say wrong? What are you upset about? I was not upset or being mean (I've never been mean...ever). I was typing a response to what I thought was a good humored post. And was typing that response in good humor. Instead I get attacked. Wow! Now I'm sitting here wondering what I did wrong.

Whatever...lifes too short. I'm going out for some Chinese.
If you must know...DINOSAUR
Dec 1, 2001 12:21 PM
The fuzzy blond haired gal driving the black BMW that almost clipped me was actually a guy in drag. I'm a cross dresser and I wanted to see where he purchased that cute little number he had on...he didn't ruturn to my beckoning and I was upset...

Is it true blonds have more fun? My daughter is a blond and she doesn't seem to have much fun sometimes..

Watch the Chinese food, it's loaded with sodium..

All the rain is starting to drip on my brain cells..

God Bless
Wow! So many opinions and sooooo many gernalizations here!garagemen
Nov 30, 2001 10:50 AM
just add the word "enough" to the end of your 3 criteria and the answer is clearly "yes" - that why we have driving tests - it's just a question of what enough is.

Personally, I think a one-off lifetime lasting test to drive a leathal weapon is a total joke, but there you go.