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Broken Giant TCR frame...(27 posts)

Broken Giant TCR frame...alansutton
Oct 31, 2001 4:21 PM
After a few weeks of annoying creaking, I discovered this crack on the right chain stay. The frame is 8 months old. The Giant dealer I bought the frame from is out of business and I can't find my receipt. (KEEP YOU RECEIPTS!) The other Giant dealer in my area won't even look at the frame unless I can produce a receipt. I know they can do a serial number look-up to see who bought the frame and it's obvious that it's a 2001 frame, since it's the only year this frame was produced. It's also obvious that the frame wasn't crashed. Yet no one at Giant seems to care, they claim its company policy to have a receipt for any warranty, lame. Anyone out there have any suggestions?
re: Broken Giant TCR frame...look271
Oct 31, 2001 4:35 PM
Did you register it when you bought it? Usually companies do this so they have a record of your purchase. Otherwise, you may be screwed. I broke a Raliegh frame a couple of years ago. Warranteed it out, no ?'s, no receipt. (I had bought it used.) Guess it depends on the company. One suggestion; you may want to ask to see Giant's sales rep that comes to the lbs-he may be more willing to help you than the local shop.
re: Broken Giant TCR frame...gtx
Oct 31, 2001 4:41 PM
this was posted to a Giant problem over on mtbr.com a few weeks ago. Good luck.

http://forums13.consumerreview.com/crforum?14@@.ee8ad58/0
re: Broken Giant TCR frame...GregJ
Oct 31, 2001 4:47 PM
You may want to try finding the owner of the shop that went under. They probably still have records that may be of value to you. I would be willing to bet this will be worked out in your favor if you are persistant.
Let this be a lesson,TJeanloz
Oct 31, 2001 4:58 PM
The shop is actually required by their dealer agreement to see your receipt before processing a warranty claim. Processing a warranty claim is no big deal through the shop you purchased it at- because they know you bought it. Though you claim to "know" they can do a serial number look-up, I'm not sure how you think they would do this. Dealers do not send records back to bike companies saying who bought what serial number. It's up to the dealer to keep this information on file. FWIW the dealer you purchased it from is bound to keep his records for 7 years, whether he's in business anymore or not.

This warranty policy is not lame, and here's why: the original owner of the bike could have broken it, sold the broken frame to you for $10, and you do the warranty work. Stranger things happen in this industry. When I worked in Boulder, we had to be vigilant that people weren't warantying Schwinns that they had pulled out of the dumpster at Schwinn/GT. About once a month somebody tried to pull that one. I suggest you keep trying until you find a dealer who isn't so scrupulous that he needs to see your reciept.
what are you, a coldhearted economist? :-)ET
Oct 31, 2001 5:14 PM
Is it my imagination, or ever since you left that LBS job, your posts are completely devoid of humor? Scary. I need a laugh, and I need it now. Or else I'm gonna get you riled up about Litespeed. :-)
Bitter, bitter, bittermatt
Nov 1, 2001 7:21 AM
The shop I work at deals in Giant. They are more than happy to warranty most problems. Sounds like you need to talk to a better shop. A good shop that deals in Giant won't second guess you. It costs them absolutely nothing to warranty the frame for you. At our shop the only thing we would charge for is the bike build, but that is minimal and we want to make sure everything is right this time. When we warranty the frame, Giant never even gets it back. We destroy it, as would any Giant dealer. To do this we use a hack saw on the seat tube and down tube. Great for relieving stress after a day of repairing cheap mountain bike wheels from Giant's lower end bikes. The shop I work at believes the customer is honest until proven otherwise, seems to be a diffent attitude from boulder. If all else fails, email Giant and enclose the picture you sent. Tell them that since they won't help you out, you are going to continue to ride the same frame until it fails catastrophically at which point you will file a saftey report with the consumer saftey board as well as a liability lawsuit(possibly class action). With the threat of recall and litigation, you should get them to budge.
Not bitter,TJeanloz
Nov 1, 2001 7:41 AM
It may have come across as bitter, but I was just pointing out that the dealer is legally bound, by his dealer agreement, to verify that the waranty-er is the original owner. If the buyer's word is good enough for some shops- I suppose that's technically enough. The 'quality' of shop isn't really at question here, more the quality of the frame...
Still no humor. I've had it.ET
Nov 1, 2001 9:05 AM
I hate Litespeed. Litespeed think they practically own the Ti world. Unfortunately, they are right. But I ain't gonna buy something so unoriginal it could be called the OCLV of Ti--or OCLVs, they make so many models. I expect their good fortune to change. Any economist knows that the demand curve for any item perceived as having boutique value shifts negatively as supply gets too large. (Of course, an economist is one who will tell you tomorrow why the prediction he made yesterday did not come true today.) It is why a ritzy restaurant does better with people waiting in line for a meal than it does by doubling its space. But I've finally figured out why I see so many LS's on my rides: because I'm passing them all, that's why. Who needs Litespeed? Not me, that's for sure.

Disclaimer (for Dog): Everything said above was said in total seriousness.
Oh, it's on (nm)TJeanloz
Nov 1, 2001 10:41 AM
Being a former Litespeed dealer...matt
Nov 1, 2001 10:39 PM
I have seen more broken Litespeeds come through the door than TCR's. They are petty things like rear shock mounts breaking off, tubes cracking at the water bottle bosses, and crooked frames out of the box. If a customer pays $2500 for a frame I would expect not to have to realign the frame out of the box. They are fast to replace broken frames, but most of the problems I have seen are in poor welding technique. That could possibly come from hiring people who learned how to weld on tractors instead of titanium. We also have a customer with a dead shock on his 96 Obed. The rear end was made by Amp Research, and Litespeed says any problems should be adressed through them. Amp just laughs and says Litespeed can piss up a rope, and they regret ever selling them the rear end. Now that makes us the local dealer look incompetent. Thanks Litespeed.
Don't be slaggin' Litespeed...dan0
Nov 2, 2001 5:36 AM
this forum just won't stand for it. What's the matter with you?!
To be honest with you...TJeanloz
Nov 2, 2001 7:27 AM
As a percentage of total bikes sold, Litespeed probably had the highest rate of "this bike isn't good enough, send it back". This was partly due to us holding Litespeed to a higher standard- a cracked decal on a $3,000 Palmares wouldn't be o.k.; but on a Bianchi Eros frame it would have been fine.

But it was partly due to bad bikes coming from Litespeed. I think there was a period that was not too brief that QC at Litespeed was lagging, as they put a lot of energy into the Merlin/QR merger. At Interbike in 2000, a lot of dealers told them not very nicely that they would need to shape up- and they did. QC problems happen most at large scale hand-building operations like Litespeed. In these operations, there is the largest chance of human error, and QC can be really expensive. It shouldn't happen, but sometimes it does.

However, I am of the opinion that the onus is on the dealer to determine whether or not a bike is good enough for the customer. We never had a Litespeed go out the door that wasn't perfect; and they always solved problems very quickly.
re: Broken Giant TCR frame...grzy
Oct 31, 2001 5:40 PM
Try to deal with the sales rep. You can often get pretty far if you're pretty nice with them - they catch hell all day long from everyone. Anything is possible in the bike industry - you can't believe the amount of "free product" and swag that gets floated around. Still, it may be too late for this. Given that the shop had to have a business license and was registered you should be able to determine the owner's name and address - it's public record. He may not want to deal with you, but if all you need is a copy of the receipt he might be willing to help - a six pac or two of quality brew usually helps also. A bad attitude will get you no where, fast. On the otherhand offereing to bad mouth them all over the internet and in every news group you can find *may* get their attention, proble is if they call you on it.

It's pretty damn lame when they won't even go on the serial number - most companies are smart enough to destroy the frame once it's been turned in. If nothing else you may find that someone like C'dale may be still doing an exchange program. My guess is that this is going to take a while and be a failry frustrating process - you best look around for a good deal on a replacement frame so you can do some riding. Try to doucment stuff b/c another angle for them to stall you enough that the warranty period expires. I'd stick with established road bike product lines for your next ride - both interms of quality and warranty issues.

BTW - looks like a classic stress fracture as a result of the heat treament being lost in that area when the frame was welded. Aluminum becomes as soft as butter if it's not heat treated after the welding has been completed. This costs extra time and money so you can see why it may not get done.
Failure modeEric
Nov 1, 2001 3:46 PM
That is exactly the same type of failure I had with TWO Rocky Mountain Turbo Scandium road frames this year. A big crack on the right chainstay at the weld junction of the bridge. I agree with your assessment of overheating during welding. I suspect the welding of the bridge in such a small surface area (small bridge to small chainstay surface) just creates too much heat. It is not the same as welding a downtube to BB shell where the surface area of contact is much larger and therefore the chance of overheating is reduced. Now, other areas have similar small surface welds, like the brake bridge for example, but the load on this area is much lower than on the chainstays.

Good luck with the warranty issue. I would try contacting another dealer and pleading your case.
re: Broken Giant TCR frame...CT1
Oct 31, 2001 6:49 PM
Bummer!

I broke a Giant XTC frame last year and got a VERY prompt replacement..... I had a good shop: Speedgoat and I think Giant is a good company. ! :-)

Sorry, I can't offer any pearls of wisdom on this one. My experience with Giant is that they do stand behind their product so you may have to just be persistant.

**My only suggestion would take the "please" approach rather than the name calling "lame" approach.

good luck
JohnG
Giants Customer Service is lacking in a big way...NewRoadBiker
Oct 31, 2001 7:01 PM
I say this from the experience I'm having right now. My OCR1 has been in the shop for several weeks waiting on a warranty replacement fork. My LBS has been dealing with them the whole time, but there's been times where I wanted to pick up the phone and give them a piece of my mind! They keep promising to send out a replacement fork and then not following through. The one time they did so far, it didn't get shipped until several days after they said it would and then when the darn thing arrived, it was a fork for a small size frame (I needed large). They then said they didn't have the correct size fork in the right color for my bike so they would send out one that would get me riding until they got the right ones in. Well, that never arrived. Now they say, in fact, they do have the correct size fork in in the correct color and they say it shipped today by next day air so I'll be back riding tomorrow...we'll see. These people at Giant can't get their act together! I'll really think twice before I buy another Giant bike next year for myself and my fiancee. If anyone at Giant reads this...you people need to make customer service a higher priority on your list. There are lots of companies that can build and sell a good bike. What sets the good ones apart from the crap is how they handle problems and treat customers... They're not handling my situation in a satisfactory manner.

Ok, I'm finished venting! I need to ride!!!

-Darren

Darren@DarrenEllis.com
http://DarrenEllis.com
re: Broken Giant TCR frame...novice
Oct 31, 2001 7:19 PM
is the downtube on that frame damaged? It looks like it is bent .
re: Broken Giant TCR frame...C-mond
Oct 31, 2001 7:19 PM
make your own receipt. download.com and get a receipt program or perhaps have a little fun with photoshop.
The first rule of law is there is no law, there are only facts128
Nov 1, 2001 6:04 AM
from which we begin to reason. (ok, pedagogical triteness aside) What I mean is don't listen to all these rules about "oh we can only process a claim if..." da da da. Nonesense. First of all, your common sense is the law: I bought this bike, it wasn't supposed to break, it broke, I should get something. That's about it. How to achieve this?
When did you come into ownership of the frame? You say it's new. So document it as best you can, but your word is good, They need to trust you on this one. I'm not scamming! Come look at my shop! I'm a roadie mechanic freak and I just want to ride my bicycle!! The issue is reasonableness of use; how long out of warranty you are, or whether you've cruised the Alps on the thing for twelve ardous years, or is it one year and a day old?.

There is always the 'Implied warranty of merchantability'(as distinct from your express warranty) which demands that goods sold must be reasonably fit for their intended purpose for a reasonable period of time, if used in the manner in which the goods were intended. You need to call a manager, someone with authority, NEVER talk to customer/sales reps. about returns, there programmed to sell and defer to management. So ask for the big cheese, and essentially say hey look, I'm in love with this bike, I love your products, I can't believe that your high quality standards would allow a loyal customer to be saddled with a broken bike, this shouldn't happen to such a high quality frame, who;s weld was on bike 39765? Who trained this guy?. Is there anything you can do? And what he can do is pay off your mortgage but s/he'll say da da da and the upshot SHOULD be 'we'll repair it as a gesture of good will/ and you say Thank you, and/or; well, if it can't be repaired, what am I going to love then? You gotta lobby for your position, 'if you can't repair the thing, how bout setting me up? Do you want to give me a frame and have a walking lifelong positive advertisemant, or not and get a talking negative advert? Bla bada da...
And on it goes...
That's how I just had my Grundig sw radio replaced. It wouldn't turn off! I'm saying "what the heck is this!? I bought a Grundig Bud, not a POS. That's exactly WHY I buy Grundig..." etc.
The point here is youre not asking any questions you don't already know the answers to. Be persuasive and firm, not too aggressive.

Now go get em!

128, Esq.

RR
I'm not sure I believe you.vanzutas
Nov 1, 2001 6:50 AM
Did that bike really come from a now defunct shop?
Why didn't you keep a reciept for such a costly purchase?
don't you have credit caard records for it?
My real question is why is the frame stripped? I just wonder if this is the same deal as TJ was talking about with people coming across a broken bike and trying to pass it back to the company.
And one more point ...pmf1
Nov 1, 2001 7:10 AM
If he were running a scam, why would he be posting it on this board? Is anyone here going to warranty it for him?

You may have a bright future at the CIA.
me neitherJack S
Nov 1, 2001 11:09 AM
and why is the serial number stamping UNDER the weld???
Mine is like that toomatt
Nov 1, 2001 10:29 PM
I have the same frame, though mine isn't broken, and the serial is partially coveredby the weld. Perhaps I am trying to run a scam too. Have you ever even seen a TCR bottom bracket? Do you know why the weld is different colored? The weld is different in composition than the tube, therefore it takes the annodizing differently. If you ever see one in person it looks like the welds are made from J.B.Weld. Go ahead and checkout the serial number while you are at it. My guess is they are stamped before assembly. Give the guy a break, he was just looking for information and you all call him a scam artist. Like the guy above said, would he spell out the scam here in public.
re: Broken Giant TCR frame...John-d
Nov 1, 2001 7:29 AM
Three things come to mind. In the UK you are up against it if you cannot prove title. Any thing helps, cash receipt if you paid cash, credit card receipt or statement, cheque book stub, even the shop owner writing you out a statement that he sold it to you.

Second, You say that you bought the 'frame' and the bike shop is defunct. Could they have sold you duff stock before clearing off?

Third, the reason I mention the second point is that it looks to me as though someone has tried to force a rear wheel into the frame that was wider than the allowance. Is the frame correct?

I mention this in case Giant decide to take a look and start suggesting things.
re: Broken Giant TCR frame...Bro
Nov 1, 2001 9:52 AM
Dude, did you purchase the bike with a credit card? If so, contact them and ask if they can send a copy of the transaction.

good luck
I call BS...Jack S
Nov 1, 2001 11:06 AM
that picture doesn't even look real... methinks somebody got creative with a graphics program.