|personal stuff in posts||tarwheel|
Oct 19, 2001 7:37 AM
|It seems like there's been a fair amount of flaming lately regarding personal issues, photos, etc in posts. Myself, I like these posts and often find that I am dealing with the same kinds of issues -- eg, time conflicts with my spouse. It's also nice to see a face to associate with the messages from semi-anonymous posters. |
For those who don't appreciate these threads, I suggest you just quit reading them. Or start a thread about some topic that appeals to you. There are plenty of threads I ignore, like the ones from someone agonizing over whether to buy a Litespeed, Seven or Merlin. But that's OK, some people find such info entertaining or really helpful. What is interesting to one person may be boring to another.
I suspect the flamers are just trying to rile something up. As usual, the best advice is just to ignore the flamers and trolls. Enough said.
Oct 19, 2001 7:59 AM
|As long as it meets these standards, and is road cycling related, I think anything goes (IMO):
ConsumerREVIEW, Inc. strives to provide a product research resource and Web community of the highest quality and integrity. We encourage open, honest and respectful communication between all of our members. Our community guidelines are based upon these basic values:
We believe everyone has something to contribute
We believe that an open, honest and respectful environment can generate stimulating discussion and valuable contributions from all of our members
A healthy community has room for and encourages participation from everyone, regardless of their age, background or level of expertise
We do not and cannot review all content posted by viewers on the Web site, and we are not responsible for such content. However, we do reserve the right to delete or edit any reviews or other postings that are not, in our sole discretion, in the spirit of these basic values. We will monitor posting activity of anyone who violates the following guidelines and, if necessary, restrict their ability to post reviews or messages on the site.
No insults or personal attacks
No profanity or obscene language
Debate - yes! Arguments or "flame wars" - no!
Post solicitations to buy or sell products only in the "Marketplace" section
Do not post a product review unless you own or have used the product
Post only one review for each product. Multiple posts for the same product are acceptable if new information is provided
To ensure high quality, useful reviews, please explain in detail your experience with the product. What did you like or dislike about the product and why? Reviews should be a minimum of 50 words
Outrageous or suspicious reviews may be verified by email
Employees of manufacturers (and their relatives) are not allowed to post reviews for their company's products or for competitors' products
By contributing or submitting product reviews, message board postings, product photographs, or any other Content, you automatically grant (or warrant that the owner of such rights has expressly granted) us an irrevocable, royalty-free, transferable and worldwide right and license to use, copy, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from and sell and distribute such materials or incorporate such materials into any form, medium or technology without compensation to you. In addition, you warrant that all so-called moral rights in those materials have been waived. None of the materials shall be subject to any obligation of confidence on the part of ConsumerREVIEW.
Please report violations of this policy to:
VP of Marketing
|well, I have a cycling-related question||ET|
Oct 19, 2001 8:23 AM
|Is your wife gonna let you do next month's Furnace Creek 1016? :-) :-)|
Oct 19, 2001 8:01 AM
|One thing has made me mad in the last go around was that several people talked about how this is a "community" and if you don't like it, leave. I find that a strange reaction for a "community." Not exactly inclusive.
What I've been seeing happening a lot is best described as a clique, not a community. The nasty reaction of the past couple days does not surprise me at all. There is plenty of "us vs. them" attitude in many posts. Anyone who dares not toe the party line is thrashed. Posts become more and more personal and further and further removed from cycling matters. A lot of visitors are not exactly welcomed, which means they aren't going to stay.
I suggest that everyone be a little more tolerant and a little less personal, and let's try to remember that this is a cycling forum.
|Rename the forum?||Fred the Dread|
Oct 19, 2001 9:04 AM
|What shall we call it? Dog's Problems Revisted? Spinchickkies Cheesecake Shots? Pictures of My Stoker? Flirt with a Fellow Cyclist? or how about the How Cool is Doug forum?
Anyone? Anyone? Beuhler?
|We can call it "Fred's Forum"||Tig|
Oct 19, 2001 9:22 AM
|It will be chock full 'O pure, unadulterated cycling posts and none of those wussy personal ones or family pictures. If John Wayne were a cyclist (and alive!) it would be a place he'd be proud of. The best part is that we could all find out which regular contributor "Fred the Dread" really is!|
Oct 19, 2001 9:34 AM
|Limited topics for Fred's Forum
*What color jersey should I wear?
*Should my tires match my bike?
*Why are people walking on the bike path?
*How do you change a flat tire?
*What flavor of Gatorade is best?
*Why do my hands hurt after riding 50 miles, when I never rode more than 10 miles before?
Sorry for sarcasm, but is that what we want to be limited to? "Cycling" goes far behond bike parts. BTW, there is a Components forum, a Racing forum, etc., this is the General forum.
|Life in General forum, or General Cycling forum?||jj|
Oct 19, 2001 9:40 AM
|I think that's the issue people have.|
Oct 19, 2001 9:49 AM
|Here is another one:
. What color should you use for bar tape if your rear wheel is blue and your front red? I'm thinking white. This is serious stuff. I lay awake at night thinking about it.
Oct 19, 2001 9:56 AM
|White would look good -- if you never ride the bike. Just brush a tire and then put your glove on that nice white tape. A big mess. Been there.
I generally stick with black now. Anything else gets pretty grodie in a week.
But, go back to the old Cello Tape and no problem. You can't get that stuff dirty. But, it has no cushioning and doesn't grip very well.
Dino, I think you should just give up and get a whole new bike. Only answer, really.
Oct 19, 2001 10:18 AM
|This really sounds stupid but my Klein is burnt orange/yellow. I've stuck with black bar tape, then I purchased a San Marco Era postal team replica that was blue (on sale for $59.00, I couldn't pass it up). So I switched to blue bar tape, cool. Now my red rear Rolf rim is being replaced, only replacement Trek has is a blue rim. Good grief this is upsetting the color scheme of my bike.
I've found a red/wht/blue bar tape that looks like the American flag. White would look nice, but like you said white gets dirty easy. I remember a bar tape years ago that was a rubber compound with adhevise backing. Worked good, I could wash it off. Matter a fact my old road bike stored under the house still has some on and it's servicable.
On the new bike, I have a photo of a Pegoretti CCkMP staring at me as I type. But it's white, with white bar tape.
This is really bothering me. Anyone have a suggesting as to where I could go for counseling? Maybe I could just spray paint the whole bike the same color.
Does this mean I'm in the clique now? If so, I want a membership card, and it better not be white, my wallet is black and all my credit cards are color coordinated.
Yes I know I'm over the edge, but being over the edge is what happens to old cyclists. It beats disappearing...
All in good humor
|LMAO. This is by far the funniest thing I've heard all day.||Spinchick|
Oct 19, 2001 10:31 AM
|you're losing it||Dog|
Oct 19, 2001 10:46 AM
|I think the uncoordinated colors are getting to you. I'd either just spray paint everything (but, oh, the environmentalists will be all over you for that one), or acid dip/bleach everything.
Or, only ride at night. Everything looks grey then, so it will match your hair and beard if you grow it back.
Or, just ride the bike through a big puddle of mud - over near Cool there is a mountain bike trail that is always wet with that mucky red clay mud stuff.
You don't need to pay for counseling, when you can get everything you need right here. You don't need a counselor, anyway, you need a decorator. I'd leave it up to the ladies.
Just get a Bianchi and get all the Celeste stuff to match. Michelin even helps you there with the tires.
You are a one man clique, a unique individual. You manage to stay out of all the messes here, about the only one who can.
Let's all go ride, sounds like everyone is a bit cabin feverish.
|you're losing it||DINOSAUR|
Oct 19, 2001 11:10 AM
|Funny, I was thinking a couple of minutes ago that I should be so lucky as to have nothing else in life to worry about except laying awake at night thinking about what color bar tape to put on my bike.
I've been down the same road as you. I was just lucky as I selected a career that offered different shifts. My wife worked and I had the whole morning free to do what I wanted. Now I'm retired and I have all day to do what I want.
Bottom line about all this "clique" stuff is that some of us take outselves far too seriously at times. I'm guilty of that myself once and awhile.
I wish I could ride, I need a second bike (not white).
Life is good, sometimes we just need to ignore certain folks and laugh at their responses. Some of them are funny.
"You gotta learn to laugh" (line out of the movie "Michael" starring John Travolta)
Life is good
|You should go with the rainbow motif.||bikedodger|
Oct 19, 2001 11:04 AM
|I think all you need is some violet and green. Eliminate all blacks and whites as they are not part of the rainbow.
|Great idea! NM||DINOSAUR|
Oct 19, 2001 11:15 AM
|You should go with the rainbow motif.||peloton|
Oct 19, 2001 4:35 PM
|Dino- Back in the early 90's when Greg Herbold won the first UCI world downhill championship, he used to set his bikes up all mismatched with all sorts of wild colors. I acutally thought it looked pretty cool at the time, I had a bike that was a mess of different colors. It was great for when you broke something. No pressure to find the right color or part. Just throw it on and ride without a care.
SIde note too - I bought one of those Postal eras too on sale. I had been riding the Giro pave before, but mine was starting to look pretty scummy. I've been pretty happy with the era since. How has yours worked out? You rode an pave before too, right? Of course, my bike doens't match now either. Oh well...
|You should go with the rainbow motif.||DINOSAUR|
Oct 19, 2001 5:32 PM
|I absolutely LOVE the Era. Final touch for dialing in my bike. I gave the Pave to a freind, he said he likes it.
The color thing sort of bugs me as I'm pissed that Trek dropped Rolf and I have a bike that is not even three years old and I can't find replacement parts for the wheels. I'd purchase a new wheelset but I'll be buying a new bike next year and my Klein will be my second bike and I can't see pouring a bunch of money into it. I'm even contemplating going with a Klein Quantum Pro fuselage and having it built up.
What ticks me off even more is that I can't ride until the new rim is shipped.
On the goodside I rediscovered my Concept2 Rowing Ergometer.
Now when the rain hits I can workout out the ergo and keep in shape.
The rainbow thing is a good idea, but I was just being silly with my post, blame it on excess caffeine comsumption and sheer bordom.
Trek makes me see red.
|I can relate||peloton|
Oct 19, 2001 6:16 PM
|It seems like every time I really start to like a product, or need a replacement the line is no longer availible. I'm still lamenting the demise of 8 speed MTB components. I love sti 9 speed on the road, but I'm still not convinced in the dirt. It amazes me how quickly technology evolves.
Thinking of building a Quantum Pro? I'm jealous. I have always been a big fan of Klein's work. I heard that they are releasing models next year with carbon rear stays. I think grad school will have to end before anyone seems me on a frame like that though.
I've been happy with my era too. It's one of the few saddles that I didn't have an adjustment period for. I felt comfortable from day one. You have to love parts that you put on your bike, and forget about because they don't give you any reason to notice them.
I'lll blame boredom for my earlier post. Excess caffeine though, no way! I just bought a coffee bean grinder. Best $20 I've spent in a long time. There is nothing like a fresh ground cup of coffee.
Oct 19, 2001 8:55 PM
|I was on the silly side about two months ago and sent a goofy email to the Klein website advising them that I was thinking about buying a new bike and the only way I would consider another Klein is if Gary Klein convinced me. Fat chance, I thought. A couple of days later he emailed me. It was a short message but he recommended the Klein QP as it had a better fork. He also mentioned the new QP model with the carbon fiber wishbone seat stay.
I'm thinking there will probably be some good deals on the old QP framesets. Sometimes I see '99 models for around $1100. The only thing is it might be stupid to own two al bikes. But I'm stupid, so it's a good chance it will happen. At least I know what to expect, and no goof ups on the size this time....
On the Era, the Postal Team colors definitely clash with my burnt orange paint job, but it could be flaming pink with green stripes and I could care less. It works for me.
|be sure to...||Kristin|
Oct 22, 2001 1:49 PM
|remove all your cables before spray painting. Otherwise, the post paint test ride will be quite painful. Also, try oil based paint. That way, you can just hose the it off after your rides.|
|Rename the forum? Lots of ideas...||Dog|
Oct 19, 2001 9:46 AM
|*My Butt Problems
*Let's Needle People and Contribute Nothing
*Forum Talk About the Forum
*I Dislike People Different Than I Am
*What Wheels? Version xxx
*Why You Are Not a Cyclist But I Am
*Why the War is Related to Cycling
|Fred has a point.||Brian C.|
Oct 19, 2001 10:05 AM
|Some of the navel gazing here has become maudlin.|
|you points are well made, but ...||tarwheel|
Oct 19, 2001 9:20 AM
|It seems like how cycling relates to our personal lives is very relevant to a cycling forum. Some of us may not have an interest in such topics, but some of us also find it boring to read repeated posts about what boutique wheelset to buy, what saddle is most comfortable, or whatever. I think there is room in this forum for discussions about personal issues as well as technical, training and equipment issues. |
As far as the clique/community point, I think RBR is far less cliqueish than other boards I've been to. A certain amount of cliqueishness will always occur because regular posters get to know each other after a while. Although I wouldn't consider myself one of the regulars, I've always gotten good responses and useful information when I have submitted posts. Some of the regulars who might be construed as cliqueish are probably the most helpful when newbies or lurkers post questions or new topics.
Anyway, I think the best advice for all concerned is to just ignore the posts you find boring, irrelevant or offensive. I, for one, am gonna totally ignore Ishmael's latest post about his butt (although I think he ought to go see a Doc).
Oct 19, 2001 8:46 AM
|How we fit cycling into our lives will likely be an issue for all of us at some time in our lives. I found enough insight in people's replies to make ignoring a few flames feel like a small price. These dilemmas are much more significant and difficult to me than what saddle, wheels, or even frame I should ride. Yes, it's a lot easier to find a good bike than a good wife.
So, I read the flames, occasionaly smile cause they're funny, and once I've paged down my problems with them are over.
|re: personal stuff in posts||DINOSAUR|
Oct 19, 2001 8:50 AM
|I look at it this way. This forum is free. No one forces anyone to read anything or contribute. If you see a thread that does not interest you, just don't click on it. The flamers are here and always will be. I do have some issues with some of the subjects that pop up, but I just keep out of them, all it does is eat up the board. Anyway it's the American way, we have the right to disagree. This forum used to be worse, at least I don't see any vulgarity. Hmmmm what ever happened to the Bowl Of Noodles?|
|Oh GREAT...a Meta Thread about personal issues! (nm)||Fred the Dread|
Oct 19, 2001 8:58 AM
|Who was that?||John Evans|
Oct 19, 2001 9:22 AM
|I'm not here often and haven't been here long but I've picked up alot from the more tech posts and I enjoy most of the personal stuff.
Who was it about a month or so ago that seemed to be a pain in everyones butt. Then one of you caught him talking to himself and figured out who he was and he left. Could this be the same guy?
|That was Trollman||ColnagoFE|
Oct 19, 2001 2:50 PM
|Last I heard he was hanging out on MTBR.COM forums|
|why don't you follow your own advice||Starliner|
Oct 19, 2001 9:03 AM
|if you don't like the flames, quit reading them. Some of us like to read them. Some may be ridiculous, some painful, but carry some valid points. Funny how the people on this board who complain the loudest about personal attacks seem to be the ones participating/instigating the posts that get personal.
Thank the heavens for posters like Kerry Irons and TJeanloz who seem to stand above the circus, and remain focused on the bike with their information and comments. Their posts are rarely if ever about themselves.
The bottom line is that we all come and go here for our own reasons. There seems to have been a rise in cliqueiness during the past months with this site. Fine. Let's just not use it to suppress the opinions of those who are not part of the group. Nobody here, including Doug Sloan, deserves immunity from disagreement or comment.
|My 30X28 best take ..always up-hill :)||breck|
Oct 19, 2001 9:08 AM
|When you read good fiction novel you don't expect all characters to be the same and yet they [the individual characters] are invented and perform true to type by the author. My observation is that the "General" chat forum fits into this cat. Our everyday biking experiences are almost too broad to fit neatly into any one cubby-hole. So "we" [even though we are asked to keep the same log-on name] occasionally "offend" and get the e-mail style letter process going further and further away from the initial postee's intent. |
Some have figured out how to post under different names. Some post very clever [often esoteric] replies and get some [others] off track. Some seem to have a natural bent towards dissention. Some are very serious [and hold others to their "standard"] and others not, etc. Some have a way about them to "loom" larger than they possibly really are; others are seemingly relegated to "inferior" status.
This particular board ran by ConsumerReview.com [even though we are asked to pledge conventional manners] gives out a lot of slack. Some web sites such as SDTC ( San Diego Track Club) will kikk you off if you began to be abusive ,etc. Some such as TundraSolutions will remove your post to the "general Chat" if it does not specifically fit into the cat you are posting to.
On this board our "general chat" is seemingly [to me] becoming a catch-all for topics that would better be served on the racing or component section and IMHO the TdF section has degenerated into a can of worms and won't post on it. "Our" general chat moves very every fast and the "knee jerk" reaction prevails, IMHO. The component action seems to fare the best, the racing section pretty good.
To be honest i have removed this web from my book list many times , but ( and it ain't that big 'a butt :), always come back and get pulled in, etc. There IS NO solution to the dilemma and we are stuck in the "horns of it". I believe as Dog said on the old board, just tell me if i am not wanted and will pedal off. He then evolved from the mutt to the AKC registered Champ that he is :) Let's all evolve a little bit here, though most of us (me in particular) will remain mongrels of the road :) Wag the tail and please don't nip or bite if you can avoid it as we are low on vaccine for this particular malady :)
|Well said, mr_spin and Starliner...||lurker|
Oct 19, 2001 9:28 AM
|Hopefully everyone, including "the clique", will read (hard to tell as none have responded) and heed.
And you gotta admit, Fred's Rename the Forum post is pretty funny!
|Who's in the clique?||mickey-mac|
Oct 19, 2001 9:40 AM
|I never received a membership card-or even an application-so I don't know my status. Do I have a chance if I didn't play football in high school?|
|Hey, I always wanted to be in a clique!||Spinchick|
Oct 19, 2001 10:39 AM
|Can I join, huh?|
|re: personal stuff in posts||Tig|
Oct 19, 2001 9:42 AM
|I enjoy getting to know a little more about those people who contribute frequently in here. It is only natural to want to see the face behind the name. We come from all walks of life and are extremely diverse, but the more we learn about each other, the more we find that cycling is not the only common thread among us.
No one complained about the "tell us about yourself" type threads in the past that were extremely popular. Those were filled with personal info and even photos, but you didn't see the "I'm sick of this junk" type flames.
Dog's post about his mistress/bike were quite relevant to cycling, even if somewhat personal. The people who flamed are most likely a bit lonely and wish they had a wife, period! It wasn't posted just for people to read, but to indirectly ask for some help and useful viewpoints. When someone asks for bike technical help, you don't see the kind of flaming that he got! He asked for help on a cycling related personal issue and risked attack. Wade past the crap and he received some valuable advice. So, how can we jump to help a newbie in need or pitch in on a technical problem and not help a friend who is asking for help?
For some people, I guess the painful lessons we had to learn about being united have already faded like the lessons of a sermon on Monday morning.
|Well said. (nm)||Jon|
Oct 19, 2001 9:46 AM
|It doesn't matter||Dog|
Oct 19, 2001 9:52 AM
|I've been here since the first day of the web site, and there have always been flamers, attackers, critics, and always will be. They rarely bother me, for I think they are just to be expected in a format like this, which is wide open. Sort of like protesters when someone comes to town to give a speech. Doesn't matter who it is, someone will picket. You can count on it. If you let it bother you, you'd go nuts. They are like the weather - it's gonna rain once in a while, and sometimes it might actually do some good.
Now, that said, that doesn't mean that a counter-viewpoint to the flamers isn't permitted, too. The freedom to criticize works both ways.
Oct 22, 2001 2:30 PM
|...about the "tell us about yourself" posts is an interesting one; but I believe the flamers are frustrated by something else. My perception is that this is a cultural issue. There is a rule (norm) in our society that states it is not acceptable to offer unsolicited information about yourself.
What's occured recently (I'm guilty of this) are posts offering unsolicited personal information which are not offered-up in a question/answer format. The norm on this board is question/answer exchanges. This can be perceived by some as (though not intended to be) dumping. Its akin to approaching a friend and, without first asking about them, talking about yourself.
I agree--going forward--to ask myself the following question before clicking OK. Is this post going to benefit the forum as a whole, contribute meaningful information, and fall within the ConsumerReview guidlines?
Just my $.02
|Gonna post some pics mowing the lawn||grzy|
Oct 19, 2001 9:51 AM
|I figure it's about as valid as someone posting a picture of them and their kid floating around on a boat during a drifter. |
Face it this place has gone from bikes to bikes, the meaning of life and the universe.
What it comes down to is that some people bike to live others live to bike and some have such pathetic lives that their bike is the biggest thing going for them. It's inevitable that this will become a lot like www.mtbr.com except the maturity level will be *slightly* higher.
Yes, we're all free to choose what we read and respond to.
|re: personal stuff in posts||peloton|
Oct 19, 2001 9:55 AM
|I look at it this way. I like to be fairly anonymous here, hence my handle is not what I am known as in day to day life. There are forum members here who know my name, but that is only because I have e-mailed them personally to offer advice or the occasional spare part. I like it that way, as I don't like posting my personal life in a public forum. I do always post as peloton though, so at least you know it's the same person. I don't care to participate in the 'who's who' posts and personal stuff, but people have the right to enjoy those posts if it is their cup of tea. My simple solution though, is if you don't care for that kind of stuff, then just stay out of it. I really wonder about anyone who would take time out of their life to make fun of someone over the internet, so I find it hard to get worked up enough to respond to those people.
I guess what I am trying to say is- no one is forcing anyone to read or participate. Take advantage of the posts that entertain you. Ignore the posts that don't appeal to you. Feel sorry for the people who have nothing better to do than flame others over the internet. It's just supposed to be an entertaining way for people to share a common interest, not something that should be here to make you angry. :)
|Just logged back on and......||Len J|
Oct 19, 2001 10:01 AM
|it's amazing what you miss when you try to get some work done. That'll teach me!
Regarding personal stuff in posts; Last time I checked, we were all people who have more things going on than just cycling. Not only that, but cycling affects other parts of our life. Doug's post was cycling related, in my oponion. He was asking for help with a problem caused by his cycling.
I have chosen to not participate (although I usually read) political posts because for the most part they are like discussions about religion, most people have already made up thier mind and take any disagreement as a personal attack. Consequently these posts become very devisive. It's hard enough to have a political debate with someone you know & love very well, let alone relative strangers.
That being said, if these things are important enough to someone to start a post, and others on this forum are willing to invest thier time, I say let them go at it. I can just decide (as can you) to not participate.
Why are we trying to make this about rules & boundaries? As someone else said, if a particular post bothers you, don't read it.
|Personnally I object||javagenki|
Oct 19, 2001 10:26 AM
|to the use of personal pronouns. Can do something about ?
Man, I love this site.
Oct 19, 2001 10:32 AM
|"General" covers both you and your bike. Write on, brothers and sisters! BTW, I thinking about getting a new set of snow tires for the Honda, and I.... Oh, never mind.|
Oct 20, 2001 5:06 AM
|First and foremost, I don't think I've read a post by anyone here (in the short time I've been logging on) that wasn't a cyclist. Last time I looked this is the General Discussion section for roadbikereview. Let's be marginally repectful of each other without needing to be told all the time!
BTW, what the hell are "trolls" and "flamers"?