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Open Pros w/ Recod hubs...(30 posts)

Open Pros w/ Recod hubs...MHR
Oct 17, 2001 11:08 PM
has anyone weighed these wheels? How many spokes and what pattern did you use? Thanks. I recently saw a site that had '01 Record hubs on 32H Open Pros with Sapim spokes (14 gauge bladed) - it said actual weight was 1530 grams. That seems impossible. That would make them lighter than Mavic K's and a host of other lightweight wheels. What gives?
re: Open Pros w/ Recod hubs...philippec
Oct 18, 2001 12:52 AM
'tis true, the secret is out -- home-built wheels are often lighter than "boutique" offerings, even with fairly standard options (32 hole, 3x). You can build 2 pairs for what about what set of of Mavic K's will cost you. Oh, and don't forget to add the rim strip weight when you make your calculations!
FWIWmuncher
Oct 18, 2001 1:15 AM
Can't remeber the weights off hand, but my 32 3x ops are lighter than my Cosmic Elites. That means that they are well in the ball park of the Special K's.
the truth is out nowgrandemamou
Oct 18, 2001 3:06 AM
I'm not as opposed to boutique wheels as some. If they make you happy and want to ride more by all means go for it. A set of well made wheels built for light weight easily rival factory wheels in weight and performance. With the exception of carbon wheels.

See my post below concerning boutique wheels. If you went with 28's instead of 32's they would be even lighter
where can i get 28h record hubs? (NM)dupe
Oct 18, 2001 4:28 AM
You can get them through Branford BikeCima Coppi
Oct 18, 2001 4:31 AM
http://www.branfordbike.com/campy/campy.html#FrontHubs

CC
Sounds too good to be true ...pmf1
Oct 18, 2001 4:19 AM
And maybe it is. Check out http://www.bsn.com/Cycling/Wheels.html

This site estimates those wheels at 1685. Pretty llight, but not 1530. I just bought a set of speeddream aerlights for $530 that weigh 1430. They are built from AC hubs, Velocity rims and Sapim spikes. I haven't ridden them yet, but they sure feel light.

For all you guys who put down boutique wheels ... how much would the set described above cost from your trusty LBS? About the same weight as K's and probably about the same cost. I've got a set of standard 32 spoke DA/OP wheels that I ride all the time. They're fine wheels, but I like the K's better.
Sounds too good to be true ...capnjim01
Oct 18, 2001 4:49 AM
if you click on the wrench science web site from this page you can look at specs, building up you own although in some cases your limited in what you can use and then compare them to factory and custom options on the same site. as a side note if your in a pace line of lets say 10 riders sharing the work are areo wheels really an advantage and worth the cost
Hey pmf1PaulCL
Oct 18, 2001 11:45 AM
Put those Speeddreams on your bike and ride'm! You'll love them!

I also have a set of OP/Record wheels. Great wheelset, but the SD's are sooooo much nicer. Heck, the sound of those sapim spokes in the wind are worth the price. The OP's are now my rainy day/trainer/off season/backup wheelset. Still great wheels.

Let me know what you think of Dave's handi-work.

P.S. As a psuedo joke/jab...my speeddreams weigh in at 1428 grams. Beat ya! Those 2 extra grams would probably keep you well behind me in a race. Just kidding. Paul
Hey pmf1pmf1
Oct 18, 2001 1:11 PM
I'm anxious to try them after waiting almost 5 months. They are amazingly light and the spoke tension seems really high (guess all light weight wheels are that way though).

Thanks for the intermittent encouragement over the months. I almost bagged it and asked for a refund.
Hey pmf1Woof the dog
Oct 19, 2001 8:21 AM
mine are at 1400 or so, very light. The wheels are flexy as heck, and hubs suck to keep in adjustment. Because of low # of spokes tension is higher: you fall over doing trackstand and the next thing you know your trusty LBS tells you they can't true it because the tension is so high. In bumpy crits you may find them hitting breakpads like crazy. If you don't race, they are fine, though still finiky. My experience - never buy something thats too light, even for all 140 pounds of a rider. my .02 cents

Woof.
Hands down Ksyriums are lighterBipedZed
Oct 18, 2001 5:45 AM
I own both, clincher Ksyriums and a set of OP/Record wheels with DT Champion 2.0/1.8 spokes with alloy nipples laced 3X.

I don't own a gram scale, but with my highly accurate left arm/right arm balance the handbuilts are noticeably heavier (no rim strips, QRs). Probably by a half pound for the entire wheelset. Does it make a difference in speed? Absolutely not.
That's pretty accurate...TJeanloz
Oct 18, 2001 7:25 AM
Typically a high end hub and open pro rim will weigh less than a Ksyrium or Helium- that's one of the reasons the Helium was discontinued. Keep in mind that there is a fairly high deviation in weights of clincher (open pro) rims- so two of the same exact wheelset could have a 100g or more weight difference.

However, the Ksyrium is undoubtedly a stiffer wheel, probably stronger than a 28 double butted spoke wheel, and certainly more aerodynamic. So it also isn't entirely accurate to say that they have all the performance of a Ksyrium. But they are probably lighter- one of the reasons we now see the Ksyrium UL.

In terms of cost, a lot of people compare apples to oranges- they say: "I can get the hub, spokes and rim from (insert online discounter's name here) for way less than the $800 my LBS wants for Ksyriums". But we all know you can get Ksyriums from Total Cycling for cheap, and when you compare their Ksyrium price to the discounted parts price, and add in some labor cost for the build- it'll be pretty close.
You pay for build?muncher
Oct 18, 2001 7:43 AM
Is that usual in the States? Over here, the general rule (at least on my last 3 builds) is that you buy the parts and you get the build for free, generally with one tune too.
You pay for build?TJeanloz
Oct 18, 2001 8:46 AM
Typically shops charge $30-$50 to build a set of wheels- they may cut you a deal if you buy all the parts from them, but many people buy their parts from an online discounter and have their local builder build the wheels.
That's interesting.muncher
Oct 18, 2001 8:51 AM
I can see how that might be worth doing for some parts, but I have never found enough discounts on things like OPs and Records etc to make the on-line buy with pay-to-build cheaper than the buy from the shop with free build and tune. Maybe I have finally found the other thing about cycling (other than Special Ks, ironically) that is cheaper in the UK than the US!...
it's because Americans are cheap.nm
Oct 18, 2001 8:56 AM
nm
Cheap or wise?ColnagoFE
Oct 18, 2001 9:27 AM
It's one thing to quibble over a few dollars difference, but when you talk about $800 (for ksyriums) vs $500-600 from Ireland that's a pretty big chunk of change. I'll pay an extra $50 or so to get a good build on a wheel, but no way I'm gonna pay hundreds more.
from a regular LBS maybeColnagoFE
Oct 18, 2001 9:24 AM
I was going to get a set of Ksyriums from one of those Irish outfits, but ended up getting a set handbuilt from Excel for less than they charged for the parts themselves...must be a loss-leader for them and then they don't charge labor either. I did end up buying some overpriced Axial pros from them at the same time. For Open pro black rims, alloy nips, 32 hole Record hubs, Revs in front and 14/15 drive side rear revs other side, a set of Axial pros, AND Chorus 10 speed cassette all assembled it was right around $500. Less than the cost of the Ksyriums (Irish prices) without cassette and tires alone. To be fair, I priced this same wheelset at a competing LBS and they wanted well over $600 for it.
weight is without skewers....C-40
Oct 18, 2001 8:17 AM
This weight is without skewers, which add around 160 grams.
The math is simple: rear hub 230, front hub 100, rims 850. The remaining 350 grams is spokes. 32 Revolution spokes would be about 30 grams lighter, yeilding a total weight of 1500 without skewers and 1660 with them.
Close, more like 1600g per Damon Rinard (NM)JS
Oct 18, 2001 9:35 AM
Amazing what marketing hype can do.
1530-1558 w/o skewers, actual weightsdeke
Oct 18, 2001 9:55 AM
according to the anal-retentive types at cyclingforum.com
http://www.tc-homes.com/bike/features/wheels/cover.htm

Sapims are among the lighest spokes available
I got 1527 from Damon Rinard? Seems pretty close to me...TJeanloz
Oct 18, 2001 10:06 AM
I got: 1527g

F hub: 118g
R hub: 248g
Spokes: 278g (claimed; from Sapim site)
Rims: 862g (average of 7 rims weighed on DR)
Nipples: 21g
I got 1527 from Damon Rinard? Seems pretty close to me...MHR
Oct 19, 2001 10:15 AM
i don't understand how the hubs can weigh what they do or rather why campy would advertise the weight at 181 (front) and 316 (rear) if in fact they were that much lighter. Also, the Rinard site has a claimed weight for chorus front hub as 119 when in fact the claimed weight from campy is 180. Seems to be something wrong with the numbers here. I know it is a little picky but 150grams in a wheelset can mean a few hundred dollars in price. Ok, I will shut up and ride.
28 spoked wheelsDave Woof
Oct 18, 2001 2:23 PM
I have a quick related question. I weigh in at 170, would 28 spoke wheels be strong enough for me to ride? I rarely hammer, some climbing, mostly long solos. Would prefer D/A and Open Pro rims, 3 cross. I ride 32's 3 cross, CXP21 rims now, no probs.

Any thoughts?

Dave
28 spoked wheelsWoof the dog
Oct 19, 2001 8:44 AM
do not, and i repeat, do not go for open pro's, go for Velocity aerohead. I have heard only positive things, as I have researched the subject and had wheels built for me with these rims. Rims are about 20 grams/rim lighter than Open Pro's and the adventage is they don't have eyelets that will creak. Also tiny bit more airdynamic and come in many colors. Wheel strength depends more on the number of spokes than on rim weight, I think. So its better to have a lighter rim but more spokes than the reverse. You could use lighter spokes too. For your weight i wouldn't go 28, 32 is much better. 28 front would be good for you, but not in the back. You can do 2 cross or even one cross in front. Actually, there is no significant difference between 3x and 2x - both resist this hub wind up or whatever equally....in the back that is. Radial lacing looks cool in front but a hub may fail eventually. All these internet clothes sellers don't give you as many options as you should have. Example: they build only 3 cross. I donno, maybe you could call 'em up and ask them for your specific design. Another reason to have it built by a local guy who knows what he is doing and what he was asked to do.

Woof.
go to www.comparisonpricing.com to get lowest prices on the hubs. Much more expensive in LBS.
re: Open Pros w/ Recod hubs...MHR
Oct 18, 2001 3:33 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I have seen that the Record Rear hub is 316grams on some websites. It seems from replies here that includes the quick release skewers? One reply here mentions 230g for the rear, if so doesnt that make it as light as a Hugi and lighter than a King?
skewer weight NOT included nmJohnG
Oct 18, 2001 7:35 PM
Skewer weight IS included...TJeanloz
Oct 19, 2001 7:03 AM
In the officially quoted weight from Campy (or QBP) skewer weight is included. In the actual weight from Damon Rinard (248g) skewer is not included.
Skewer weight IS included...MHR
Oct 19, 2001 2:32 PM
that's a pretty light skewer - 68 grams?