|Joggers with Headphones are the worst!||xjeffx|
Sep 27, 2001 5:10 AM
|I was riding on the local trail yesterday, granted it was a busy time of day (6-8 while the sun is setting), and I was passing this jogger with headphones on. Obviously paying no attention to what was, or could be, going on around him. I announced my presence ("On your left.") and the f*cker stepped into my lane. Luckily, there was no accident, but when I passed, he gave me the dirtiest look as if I did something wrong as opposed to him being totally unawares, inconsiderate to other trail users and a total moron.
How much is enough warning? How loud should I be yelling "On your left."? Should I be saying "Get out of my f*cking way you damn dirty inconsiderates!" when people are jogging side by side taking up both lanes and not paying attention to passers by?
Where do you ride if you don't like riding with cars and the local trails are a mess after 5:00pm when you get off work?
Just needed to rant! AAARRRGGGGGG!
|Rollerbladers with Headphones are the worst!||MB1|
Sep 27, 2001 5:13 AM
|Still on MUTs you gotta chill.|
|Absolutely! (nm)||Humma Hah|
Sep 27, 2001 4:47 PM
|Ditto on what MB1 says...rollerbladers are worse||Kristin|
Sep 27, 2001 5:25 AM
|worse yet are children on tricyles. Less predictable than squirrels and much larger.
My take on it. If someone wants to tune out the world, then I'm not responsible to make them aware of my presence. I announce myself at an acceptable level for someone without headphones...if they can't or don't hear me, its not my responsibility.
Oh, btw...who knows how to say, "On your left." in languages other than English. I'm guessing I should know at least 4 translations of this helpful little phrase.
|A bell says "On your left," in every language.||MB1|
Sep 27, 2001 5:32 AM
|I started using a little bar end bell on my commuter this year. Seems to work pretty well and might be perceived by some people as less confrontational than a voice.
On the other hand some trail users seem to really have a chip on their shoulders and want to get in your way. I like to stay away from that sort of trouble.
|except when they think it's the ice cream truck||terry_b|
Sep 27, 2001 6:15 AM
|true story - riding along the river here on my MTB came up on two walkers. I rang and rang and rang and finally said, "hello." one of them actually said, "Oh, I thought it was Mr. Softie, sorry." never mind the fact that we were 1/2 mile from the closest paved road.|
|Ice Cream! ...Ice Cream! ...||breck|
Sep 27, 2001 6:27 AM
|You're right there Pilgrum!:) |
We MTB-er's started using the bar mounted bells on the local trails back in the early
90's when the "tourist-riders" first appeared. Some of those had a sense of humor and
would yell "Ice cream!", "Ice Cream" as we rode past. Then we started the chant as we
rode past and got some laughs.
This fad soon passed and we simply learned to gauge the rider we were overtaking by
their togs, style, bike, etc.This may be the key. It's pretty easy to pick out the ones to be
aware, or wary (weary!) of.
Would never, as in NEVER put the bell on the road bike. It would be about the dorkyest
looking thing imaginable for the sleek Greyhounds of the road, unlike the pit-bull MTB
bikes :) To me it would infer that i/we have no sense of awareness. It would be akin to
honking your horn every time you passed some one on the road. Experience and
caution is the teacher here. There are simply those never get the message no matter
what your passing scheme, etc.
"On the other hand" as Randy Travis might say, to each his own, etc.
|This ain't bad on a road bike.||MB1|
Sep 27, 2001 6:39 AM
|Too much drag :)||breck|
Sep 27, 2001 6:50 AM
|Hay, that's exzactzly the one we used on the MTB's back in 1991! |
Yikes, the ol' memory is going, just like my form :)
|The Golden Gate Bridge...||Me Dot Org|
Sep 27, 2001 9:41 PM
|...Is the MUT from Hell, if you're a cyclist. (All of this is based on experience before 9/11/01. Since then, all pedestrians and cyclists have had to rely on vans with cycle trailers for transiting the bridge.)
...Generally the wind is howling and the traffic is roaring, and sounds (whether SCREAMING "On your left!" or ringing your bell CONSTANTLY) have about a 30% chance of having any effect on tourists who are busy backing up into traffic while taking pictures.
As a bonus attraction you have visitors from Planet of the Clueless who decide that the Golden Gate Bridge is the perfect place to pick up bicycle riding after a 20 year hiatus.
And by the way, the WORST are not rollerbladers with headphones. They are the second worst. The worst are CYCLISTS with headphones because they can go faster and cause more damage.
Sep 27, 2001 6:44 AM
|Funny... "Ice Cream" signals the start of our town line sprints. No sprinting before "IJsco" is called, and the lead rider can never call. Makes it a very tactical game... |
And I ride with a bell. But I sort of hide it underneath the stem (vertical part of a quill stem).
|I raced in Eugene OR once in a field of Cat. 1&2's. They all||MB1|
Sep 27, 2001 6:49 AM
|had bells (mostly mounted under their seats)and rang them fairly constantly for the first few laps. Cracked me up.
Disclaimer-this was back in the 70's and I got spit out the back just before the crash filled final sprint.
|Dig my eye ball bell||kenyee|
Sep 27, 2001 6:10 PM
|Hey, it was under a buck, so I *had* to add it to my last REI order ;-)
Nothing screams newbie like an eyeball bell.
Ding. Ding. :-)
Sep 27, 2001 6:16 AM
Sep 27, 2001 6:46 AM
|I know a guy with a bell. He dings that thing for 3 minutes as he approaches someone (slowly). I won't tell you all the things I've thought of doing with that bell.
|Bells are law some places||dano|
Sep 27, 2001 7:19 AM
|In at least several countries in Europe, bells are required by law. And its not just some un-enforced law that everyone ignores either. In Germany, it is considered rude to use your voice to alert someone on the trail to your presence. They are required to use bells and they use them.|
|Thanks for reminding me!||Humma Hah|
Sep 27, 2001 4:48 PM
|I bought a bell last week, but haven't installed it yet. Where's my screwdriver ....?|
|Tourists are the worst||Stampertje|
Sep 27, 2001 5:54 AM
|In Dutch we say "Achter", which means "behind you". The trick for most foreigners would be to say this without spitting in the other person's neck. It is also used in the pack to indicate a "car back". |
In speedskating, we say "Hogerop", which is potentially even worse.
"Pas op" would probably work. It just means "Look out".
Then again, most Dutch people (even cyclists) speak English well enough to understand "On your left".
|Are you saying "Just spit on 'em."? LOL nm||MB1|
Sep 27, 2001 6:00 AM
|Ditto on what MB1 says...rollerbladers are worse||bikedodger|
Sep 27, 2001 6:23 AM
Please be aware that there are people out on the paths who have hearing problems, including deafness. I have reduced hearing in my left ear and some sounds just don't come thru.
On any multiuse trail, I slow down to a near walking speed if there is any doubt in my mind that the person(s) I am passing may not understand my intentions. Trails are not for high speed use, thats what roads are for.
|No offense intended...||Kristin|
Sep 27, 2001 6:43 AM
|...I was speaking of people with headphones on. At the same time, I am not going to start screaming at every trail user because they may have a hearing problem. If someone has a hearing problem, its their responsibilty to compensate. I'm not going to do it for them. I think everyone should be attentive and aware of their surroundings on a trail.
I will make a confession. Three weeks ago, I was walking at Busse Woods (no tunes). It was getting dark and I noticed some bats flying overhead. I looked up and must have drifted to the center of the path. Then I just stood there watching. I musta looked like a complete moron. I almost had a coronary when a virtually silent Lightspeed blew by me. Did I get angry? No. I was standing on the yellow line, blocking his way--clueless. I own my own mistakes. Didn't hurt that I was mezmorized by the beautiful, and very well oiled bike--rider wasn't bad either.
|Oh...and regarding speed||Kristin|
Sep 27, 2001 7:03 AM
|If the path has no posted speed limit, I'm not required to go slow. Could I be risking a wreck? Yup. My choice. But its allowable for me ride fast on a "bike" path that has no posted speed limit. I work hard to be considerate and ride responsibly. When I ride at 5:30am...I go fast.|
|Different speeds for different folks||bikedodger|
Sep 27, 2001 7:17 AM
|I ride at the speed that I feel comfortable at and I'm sure ou ride at a speed you are comfortable at. They are most likely different speeds, but neither is right or wrong, just different.
I usually feel safer on the road than on a multiuse path as many path users seem to be so erratic and unpredictable in their movement. To me the worst are parents of small childern who let the children run ramdomly about the path. While trying to pass some of them at a very slow pace, I still have had them dart in front of me. It just makes me too uncomfortable, although I am sure that is not a problem at 5:30am, but I am still in bed then. Maybe I just ride at the wrong time!
|You are required to ride as slow..||fishwheel|
Sep 27, 2001 8:15 AM
|It is your responsibility to ride at a safe and responsible speed. On a multi use trail that means slow (we don't have "bike" paths here although people tend to call the MUT's bike paths). If you want to ride fast, ride on the road. I've said it before If you ride on MUT's or sidewalks you need to ease up on the speed. The sight lines on MUT's were not designed for high speed travel and the high variability in speeds by other users means you need to be extra cautious. I think people doing time trials on these trails are just as obnoxious as the roller bladers riding three across. Although the roller blader going 4 mph is less dangeraous to everyone excepth the cyclist going 18-22.|
|See! I Can Admit When I'm WRONG...||Kristin|
Sep 27, 2001 11:18 AM
|I must have Waaaaay too much time on my hands, because I went and looked up the official rules. You two are absolutely right:
Bicycle Trail Rules (Cook County, IL)
RULES OF THE TRAIL
1) Ride single file -- keeping to the right side of the trail.
2) Stay in your own lane.
3) Give warning before passing other trail users.
4) Obey all stop signs.
5) WALK all bicycles down overpasses where designated.
6) The trail is designed for a moderate recreational speed of 8 m.p.h.
NO SPEED TRAINING OR RACING PERMITTED
(Speed radar monitored) Violators will be ticketed
I will not ride at Busse again.
|BOTH WRONG!!!||Lone Gunman|
Sep 27, 2001 5:28 AM
|Riders with no helmets wearing headphones and to compensate for defeating a key sensory aid ride the wrong direction in traffic are the worst.|
|re: Joggers with Headphones are the worst!||raboboy|
Sep 27, 2001 5:30 AM
|Brush them. Get as close to them as possible when passing them. Immature? Yes, but it feels good. :)|
|3 halves of the problem||terry_b|
Sep 27, 2001 6:11 AM
|I try to be consistent with my use of "on your left" but find that the results vary:
1/2 the time they say, "thank-you"
1/2 the time they move in front of you. I then say, "on you're other left" as I pass on the right.
1/2 the time they swear at you or make fun of what you just said or (in the case of MTB riders) try to chase you down to beat you up while calling you an elitist cabronito.
then there are the times I don't say anything and I get lectured for not warning them.
you cannot win - just say it in a loud enough voice and igonore what follows.
|3 halves of the problem||TypeOne|
Sep 28, 2001 12:41 PM
|I usually see only the first 2 results in equal number. Like you, I ignore their response. If I go fast enough, they should be out of earshot anyway.|
|See my post re tourists.............||Len J|
Sep 27, 2001 6:13 AM
|last week some time. I was almost seriously injured when passing a tourist who (Unbeknownst to me) was wearing headphones & veered out & hit me as I was passing her.
You can find it by searching on the word tourist.
I felt a little like you describe, however the board gave me a dose of reality, letting me know that as long as I'm on the bike, I have a responsibility to drive it cautiously. Did you slow up prior to passing? Did you anticipate the worst or were you "assuming" that she would keep her line? (as I did) Did you have a way out? Recognize that I am not releiving her of her responsibility to jog/RB/Bike safely, I'm just reminding you of your responsibility.
All that being said, I agree with MB1, bike paths are usually no place for bikes. there are too many unprdictible people.
Glad your OK.
|What happened, Len?||TypeOne|
Sep 28, 2001 12:44 PM
|I remember your story and the thread a few weeks back. As I recall, you were cited for some infraction that everyone agreed was bogus.
What's the latest?
|"Bike Back" . I never assume to know ....||Brooks|
Sep 27, 2001 6:42 AM
|what the person(s) I'm overtaking will do. Multi-use trails are for slow speed sightseeing. If I'm interested in fast pace, I'm on the road even with a MUT 20 feet to my side. This, of course, causes young males, 18-28, to yell incredible rage-filled expletives and sometimes throw stuff. I even had two yahoos in a pick-up truck (with one motorized dirt bike) pull over, scream some more when I passed, and then get back in the truck and do it again. Fortunately there was a lot of auto and path traffic around so they didn't try anything really stupid like taking me off my bike. The standard road lane width is 12 feet; a vehicle, even a pickup, is not much over 6 feet wide. If I'm riding the white line they can pass me without going into oncoming traffic and still miss me by several feet. It's not like I'm holding up traffic. Drivers...can't live with 'em, can't just shoot 'em. sigh...|
|Not just joggers.||9WorCP|
Sep 27, 2001 7:28 AM
|Lets just say headphones. The other day I was cruising Central Park and a dude was plodding up one of the steeper hills. I came up quite a bit faster on his right (he was in the middle of the road) when he swung all the way over to the fricking curb. No look. Just did it. While he was doing it I yelled twice, "on your right!" His headphones prevented him from hearing me and he basically pinched me off and didn't notice till he was two inches away and my tire was scraping the curb. I hit the brakes and he was SOO STARTLED! Boy was he mad. He was chewing me out. Took me a couple laps to get over that creep.
There is nothing you can do other than be defensive. People do not follow any formal code or etiquette as far as I can tell.
Sep 27, 2001 7:36 AM
|My neighbors are a young couple who have parents who are
They showed up on a huge double vision recumbent the other
night and had added an AIR HORN to the thing, it had a
clear plastic container of compressed air and an actuation
button on the handlebars with clear plastic tubing to the
reservoir of air zip tied to the frame and boy was that loud. You could only ignore it if you were cranking the
Yes, it's true that working out to aggressive music really
gets you going. It's also true that if you have headphones
on you're really asking to be run over since you're all but
insensate to your surroundings.
|Multi-use trails come in different flavors||filtersweep|
Sep 27, 2001 4:41 PM
|Quote Brooks: "Multi-use trails are for slow speed sightseeing. "
I beg to differ. There are many types of multi-use trails, and to treat them all the same is ridiculous. Around here they have several sets of three wide SEPARATE trails along some old rail lines that go for miles and miles with very few "stops"- they are about 8 feet wide (wide enough to pass a parked Park Patrol vehicle) and two trails are one-ways for "wheeled" traffic, and the other is for peds/joggers.
These DO attract some recreational riders and rollerbladers, but there are plenty of roadbikers on it as they also connect to several excellent actual roads.
It is just as stooopid to blade side by side as it is to drive slowly (ie. the speed limit) in the left lane of the freeway. It is also irresponsible for a blader to blade with a gate taking up the entire path. I've seen some gangly cross-country skier-on-wheels-thingofamabobdeals that are flopping their poles all over the place, but almost all these guys have an acute awareness for what is going on behind them- but they make an effort to BE AWARE because they know they can be a hazzard. I can't stand bikers that ride side-by-side at 4 mph either with no awareness. My point is that I believe peoples awareness or lack thereof is WILLFULL- and that some people are willfully oblivious to their surroundings- certainly all the more if wearing headphones!
I still maintain that yelling "on your left" confuses people who a) don't know left from right, b) think it means I want them to MOVE to the left, or c) causes them to SWERVE left as they look over their left shoulder... all of which appropriately results in me offering a few well-placed expletives, much like rubbing a dog's nose in it to correct abhorrent puppy accidents. Not to say I never use the "on your left"- but I use it "only when necessary."
|It goes both ways||Kudzu Kannibal|
Sep 28, 2001 6:56 AM
|I do triathlons, so I have to defend and attack both sides. I think the answer to the question is more of courtesy and lack of knowledge (ignorance of the law so to speak).
First off, runners, SHOULD BE, running against traffic, not with it and since cyclists are riding with traffic (hopefully), then this guy should have seen you coming and adjusted. So, in your case, definitely his/her fault.
Second, cyclists have to understand that they ARE sharing the road with cars. I have seen cyclists riding in their little groups of two or three, shoulder to shoulder, blocking the lane (I don't ride Peloton that often, but still am courteous to known when to get the **** out of the way)...let me think, 200 pounds of rider/bike versus 3000 pounds of automobile?
One time I caught myself screaming at a group in front of me, because I was slowed by them, which in turn caused a backup of cars.
I informed them in a harsh tone to get the **** out of the way and let traffic, and MYSELF pass. They have to understand that it's a two way street and in the long run prevents less in the way of accidents.
Cyclists that ride against traffic, well these guys are dangerous cases in my mind.
It's not just them, but those driving that get nervous. You think about doing 35 down a street and here comes a guy on a bike doing 20+ right at you. Especially, if you are at a blind spot or a the top of a hill...
Then there are times, when I run, in a RUNNING lane as close to the curb as possible, going against traffic and you get cyclists that give you no room and there is nothing behind them. Sorry, but my ankles don't heal as quick as they used to and trashing them on a curb because some jackass on a bike thinks he owns the road is not what I had in mind. I almost got into a knock-down drag out with one guy over this. On the next loop, he gave me room.
Hey when I am training for Adventure Racing then I will be out on the trails running, but I have no intention of blowing out my ankle because some jerkoff thinks he owns the road on his bike.
So, my point is, it's courtesy and knowledge of courtesy for both sides. The rules are simple. All of us are pedestrians (targets...LOL) and should know how to prevent dangerous scenarious by following those few simple little rules.
BTW, not getting on you, just letting you know there are two sides to this. There is a whole other situation on mountain biking...it seems courtesy there takes a backseat most times I am out there, but that is another story and probably for MTBReview.com.
|AND GOLFERS SHOULD BE SHOT!!!! nm||nm|
Sep 28, 2001 7:06 AM
|Right, Cima?|| |