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did you or didn't you?(112 posts)

did you or didn't you?ET
Sep 12, 2001 5:58 AM
After yesterday's events, I just don't feel like getting into the usual bike banter just yet, but I was wondering about something having to do with that and cycling. If, like me, you got dismissed early from work yesterday and had the opportunity to ride, did you or didn't you?

As I'm sure it was for many of you, it was hard driving home yesterday, not from traffic, but due to my head spinning with the thoughts of what occurred. When I got home, I gave a short speech to my children (who were dismissed early from school) about the gravity of the situation and the history they were witnessing. I then spent a few hours watching the events unfold and moping about them while I tried to decide whether I wanted to ride or not (naturally, it was just about the nicest day of the year, and given riding time is always limited for me and the wife said OK...). In the end, I did go out and do 18 miles. I felt as if cars would ram me for being insensitive for riding at that time. Saw several other serious cyclists out there as well. While I felt almost guilty going out, I felt much better when I came back, with the head much clearer.

Just wondering what your thoughts are on this. Did you or didn't you?
I rodePaulCL
Sep 12, 2001 6:06 AM
I went through the same thing as you. I sat at my office until noon, then went home to be with my family. Since the family was out, I started watching the tube again. I just couldn't waste the whole day in front of the the TV so I went out and rode 30 miles. I kinda felt guilty too, until I saw several other cyclists too.

I'm off work today (I'm a stockbroker, the markets are closed), so I will probably sneek out for another 30-35 this afternoon. Heck, I may be off the rest of the week. Since I don't make any income if the markets are closed, this sucks on many levels.

Take care. My prayers go out to all of the victims and their families.
re: did you or didn't you?MikeC
Sep 12, 2001 6:06 AM
I'm no jingoist, but I have one Stars and Stripes jersey, and it was the only one I even thought about wearing this morning. Not out of guilt, but out of solidarity.
I didn't have enough energy.....Len J
Sep 12, 2001 6:12 AM
to deal with my own conflicted feelings, my teenage childrens feelings connenting with all those people who are important in my life and riding.

Riding took a back seat yesterday. May ride tonight.

Len
re: did you or didn't you?bikedodger
Sep 12, 2001 6:25 AM
I decided to spend the time with my family. I will most likely ride tonight at a terrific speed to get rid of some frustration.

Mike
I was too numb to ride yesterdayMel Erickson
Sep 12, 2001 6:26 AM
or even post. I'll ride MTB today, just seems better to get off into the woods with a couple of buddies.
re: did you or didn't you? Reluctantlyjagiger
Sep 12, 2001 6:31 AM
I wrestled with going out & eventually I did, but I was concerned that everyone would be distracted, which was somewhat true. I was nearly cut off twice. I headed to a less traveled route & I was able to unwind.
I rode like hellterry_b
Sep 12, 2001 6:40 AM
After the deluge of horrifying images and news, I arrived home and felt that I needed to get out and burn off as much negative energy as possible. Did feel for a moment that perhaps it was inappropriate but in the end realized that there is no better way to celebrate the memory of everything that was lost than by exerting myself and spending some quiet time pondering all the elements of the tragedy. No better way to get into that meditative state than on my bike so I went out and burned about 15 miles until darkness came.
I ranMazz
Sep 12, 2001 6:42 AM
I like to ride and all but I decided to run yesterday. I'm training for the NYC marathon and I'm sure there are questions to weather or not it will be held this year. However we must move on, life will prevail. Running (& cycling) keeps my life moving forward. Though I felt sick to my stomach all day I had to run. We can't let terrorism derail our lives. I send my best wishes and prayers to those still in need of help and support. Please give blood.
Glued to the tube all day ...Humma Hah
Sep 12, 2001 6:43 AM
... plus, after Saturday's long ride, I smelled faintly of ammonia, a clear indication I overdid it. I'm hoping to clean up my system enough I can donate blood.
I kind of did.Breezydz
Sep 12, 2001 6:54 AM
I went for a short run b4 the family went to Quaker Meeting to pray over the tragedy. I was comforted by the familiar feeling of my heart and lungs and legs putting my mind at rest. I was reminded that people all over the world have hearts and lungs and legs and that it's just as much a tragedy when bombs kill people in Kosovo or Sarajevo or the Middle East.
I needed it--ended up riding twice.Chris Zeller
Sep 12, 2001 6:59 AM
After I heard what happenned on the way in in the morning and watched the news reports I just couldn't stand to hear any more about it. It was making me sick. No one was getting much done at work anyway.

I bugged out for an early lunch and rode hard. I needed to burn out the frustration. Far from feeling guilty about riding it was the best thing for me.

I came back after the ride and was surrounded by it. We set up a crisis center to assist in telecomunications failures through the trade center. Even that wasn't needed and wasn't used so I just headed home.

My wife wasn't home and briefly thought about turning on the TV. They weren't going to tell me anytyhing I didn't already know and would just frustrate me further. So I grabbed the opportunity and I went for another ride ~20 miles with half of it on gravel.

Pushing 23c tires through sand is the best way to burn off frustration I've yet found.
came home and rode 40.nmk
Sep 12, 2001 7:00 AM
nm
I did.. singing Charlie Daniels "God Bless American Again"Dave Hickey
Sep 12, 2001 7:06 AM
I rode, but not the planned Tuesday night ride...Cima
Sep 12, 2001 7:15 AM
I have started riding with a group of Cat1/2 guys at a business park not far away from my house each Tuesday night. I thought long and hard about going out last night to ride with them, but in the end I decided to stay home and watch the Vuelta coverage, and just ride the rollers. For some reason I could not conjour up the will to go out after a full day at work with all that occured.

CC
I rode, but not the planned Tuesday night ride...Ken
Sep 12, 2001 7:21 AM
Too emotionally numb to ride. Will try to get out and get 40ks in later on.

Ken
Had incentive and did not...Lone Gunman
Sep 12, 2001 7:27 AM
ride. New cork under my hands, new teflon at my fingertips, new rubber under my wheels, new leather under my arse. No desire to ride, but I will today.
Had to, I commute!!Jay
Sep 12, 2001 7:36 AM
And I biked to work before that madness happened so of course, I biked home a little earlier than normal cause all the roads in NJ were starting to clog up closer to the city so I figured I better high tail it out of work a little early to avoid some of the early leaving traffic.

I had my blinky on all the way home though just for the people still in a daze.. I rode in today too, you can't let these events change your life and admit defeat..

Ride on in Peace,
Jay
I rode as long as possible.vanzutas
Sep 12, 2001 7:45 AM
I actually went to the bike shop and hung out for a few hours instead of watching the news all day. then I went out and rode the mountain bike for about 3 hours, trying to leave it behind.
sort of, but not reallyDuane Gran
Sep 12, 2001 7:38 AM
I commute to work by bicycle in Washington DC, which was very fortunate for me. I'm sure you have all read first hand accounts, but to put it mildly it was quite scary riding through the traffic yesterday but I was much more mobile on a bike. I tended to my girlfriend (who unfortunately witnessed the Pentagon incident) and didn't feel comfortable leaving her side. I did however ride for about 15 minutes on the rollers (with her in the room) in order to relieve some mental stress and energy. The weather was actually beautiful and part of me really wanted to go riding, but my girlfriend (who rides also) just wasn't up to it.

I'll ride tonight, but I think it is going to take a few days before I feel right again. I'm hoping that my Saturday plans for riding in the mountains will help.
re: did you or didn't you?Jerry
Sep 12, 2001 7:42 AM
Yes I did, during lunch time together with my partner, we went climbing to Mt Hamilton, it sure realese most of the frustration I had in my hart, still when I got back to work I went back to the same dark feelings of anger towers the perpetuators.

I am plannig to ride easy today again, I wish I had a shirt with the colors of this Great Nation of ours.

God bless America.
yupDog
Sep 12, 2001 7:43 AM
Long hill intervals. That will clear your head.

Dog
re: did you or didn't you?Jerry
Sep 12, 2001 7:43 AM
Yes I did, during lunch time together with my partner, we went climbing to Mt Hamilton, it sure realese most of the frustration I had in my hart, still when I got back to work I went back to the same dark feelings of anger towers the perpetuators.

I am plannig to ride easy today again, I wish I had a shirt with the colors of this Great Nation of ours.

God bless America.
NoDINOSAUR
Sep 12, 2001 7:49 AM
I sat in front of the tv all day. I was numb to the point of almost being physically ill. I am having trouble comphrehending this even though I am retired law enforcement. NYC is a living hell. My prayers for all the policemen, firemen and victims. I wish I could break my uniform out of moth balls and head to NY. God bless all of us. We are all victims.
Would have liked to but...PMC
Sep 12, 2001 7:50 AM
I had to drive 670 miles to go pick my wife up in Michigan. After her flight was cancelled, she decided she didn't want to get on a plane for a while. I brought a big travel case of CDs so I didn't have to listen to the coverage all day. It was bizarre to see lines, 75 cars long, in Podunk Wisconsin waiting for gas.

By the time I got home at 12:45 this morning, all I could think about was a warm bed and the fact my family was intact and safe.

On a bright note - It seems the Boys in Wisconsin weren't running the radar guns yesterday. My Passport was silent most of the way across the state and I saw at least a dozen patrol cars.
Nope. Too sick emotionally and physically (nm)Jon Billheimer
Sep 12, 2001 7:58 AM
God Bless America and the freedom we enjoy on a daily basis!Flothru
Sep 12, 2001 8:07 AM
Could not bring myself to ride during the caos! Today back to normal! Can't let them beat keep us down with fear! I will ride with a Heavy heart for all of those affected by this tradjedy.

Ride on and pray...
God Bless America and the freedom we enjoy on a daily basis!bear1
Sep 12, 2001 12:10 PM
I share your sadness at the loss of life and the audacity with which this atatck took place. The destruction is terrifying and as Mayor Giuliani said, the death toll will be more than we can bear.

But will America learn from this? Will you learn that your foreign policy makes you one of the most hated nations on this planet? To put it bluntly, if your government did not stick its nose where it doesnt belong this thing might not have happened.

I intend no offense to anyone who has suffered in this horrible incident, but as a Canadian, someone who gets to live close to your country but not in it, and who has an 'outsiders' view of things, I raise the question.

I recall several posts last year about riders in the US who actually carry handguns when they ride! It seems like there are larger issues of internal policy and external foreign policy which may come to light in this. I hope that US cicitzens do not get caught up in a nationalistic fervor over this, and lose sight of the WHY: foreign polcy, trade realtionships, capitalist expansion etc.

Of course all of this is NOT and I mean NOT a justification for what happened, nor for the actions taken by whomever is utlimately responsible. Nor can the policy platforms of your federal government be said to be 'responsible' for these deaths and these terrorist actions, but the point, I think is worth considering.

America is a good country, powerful, wealthy, etc. but it hasa a history of meddling in other nations affairs as it sees fit, and have led to the current hatred for your nation by many nations/groups. Vietnam, Granada, Iraq/Kuwait are examples that pop to mind where for various reasons (ideological, economic, or whatever) your governemnt chose to commit the lives of Americans and significant financial resources to deal with issues that do not really concern your country.
While the US's involvement in foreign affairs undoubtedly led,bill
Sep 12, 2001 12:31 PM
one way or the other, to yesterday's horrible and senseless tragedy, the world cannot have it both ways. Either the United States remains isolated, with it's unmatched power and influence squandered or used only to further the US's economic purposes, or we get involved. If we get involved, and someone doesn't like it, it gets messy. If we do something, y'all complain. If we do nothing, y'all complain. What I gather from this is that, whatever we do, y'all are going to complain. So, we can't worry about that. We will do what we have to do, because no one else will.
I certainly do not agree with or am proud of every last fight that the US has taken up, but I am proud that the US has tried and continues to try to bring some peace in the world, even at the risk of what happened yesterday. Are our policies always selfless? No, but at least, for whatever reason, we try, and we continue to do it more often and more effectively than anyone else in the world.
Right now, I am sad, and anyone has to wonder whether our attempts at influencing the world are working or worth it, but I also am proud of my country, and I refuse to accept that this tragedy is "what we had coming," as if terrorism should rule the world and not democracy.
Bullsh*t on that. Terrorism is the work of souless evil, and the naysayers about American involvement in foreign affairs play right into its dirty hands.
While the US's involvement in foreign affairs undoubtedly led,bear1
Sep 12, 2001 12:48 PM
Please don't misunderstand my point here. You (as Americans) mut be reeling form this attack.. As your neighbour to the north, Canadians are certainly in a state of shock and disbelief over what happened. I personally know several people in the NYC area, and am still trying to contact one who works a couple of blocks from the WTC site...no luck yet, but we have our fingers crossed.

I don't think 'naysaying' about US foreign policy plays into the dirty hands of terrorism. To 'naysay' is to offer critique, to suggest alternatives, to "think outside the box". I also believe that there is a role for the more powerful nations of the world to step in where neccesary to stop 'evil', to be a 'policeman' if you will. But this policeman role must be consistent and fair.

My point here was that perhaps it mught be time to re-think where and what your foreign policy / interventions entail. It might be time to rethink the way the US gets involved in other nations affairs. For example, if your response was consistent accross the board for humanitarian reasons, then perhaps your policies would not be viewed in the negative light they are (especially by whichever group of heartless killers took the actions yesterday which resulted ion so many useless deaths): example: your government chose to intervene in Kuwait, but not East Timor, where over 1 million Timorese were murdered by the Indonesian government; your government continues to 'pick sides' in the Middle East and support Israel over Palestine, while in Rwanda your government did NOTHING while almost 1 million people were hacked to death with machetes over the course of 100 days (is intervention different when people are black and not white?)

As an non-American, we tend to see things from outsdie the crucible: we often see US actions as motiviated by profit - Kuwait beeing the prime example: was Desert Storm REALLY to stop Hussein and protect Kuwaitis(why didn't your army kill him then?) or was it to protect access to oil?

I'm getting sidetracked. My point was ONLY to suggest that when the pain is less, when the victims are mourned and buried ( a mourning we all share, trust me..) and the wounds begun to heal, MAYBE it will be time to think about WHY this happened, and not get caught up in retaliation, retribution etc. Because as terroist behaviour has shown in the past, once you get one of their people and 'make an example' of him, you only create 10 more recruits. I worry that a strong retaliation (of the kind suggested by a number of posts here today and yesterday) will only likely result in an escalation of violence, and a cycle of terror that will spin out of control.

Please forgive my non-american (but by no means meant to be an ANTI-American I assure you) persepctive on this. Because I can perhaps stand back from it more than you, I think I have an opportunity see it a little differently.
What do you expect to accomplishKristin
Sep 12, 2001 12:54 PM
by posting this information on a cycling site? If you really believe you understand American foreign policy, and American government to the point that you are better qualified to decide for us than our current elected body, then become a US citizen and run for office. Its pointless to post this here. And I personally find it quite annoying.
What do you expect to accomplishbear1
Sep 12, 2001 1:04 PM
Whether you find it annoying or not is not the issue. As 'gregg' the site gur said on anothe rpoint, its all freedom of speech, and its a community of cyclists...

I'm NOT blaming your government! I'm blaming whatever assholes took it upont hemselves to be cowards and kill 1000's, but people just dont 'decide' to hate a nation SO MUCH out of the blue...don't you ever ask yourself these kind of questions? Dont you ever wonder about what your governemnt does? or do you assume that its always right?

If thats the case then YOU are ignorant (in the true sense of the word - i.e lacking knowledge) and perhaps YOU need to think about this more deeply...

I expect to accomplish NOTHING here, except to raise an issue / thread of discussion that like any other, if you beleive your won constitution and its guarantees of personal freedoms, stands on its own merit...

When I read God Bless America in all this, it makes me think that people do NOT think it through....the WHY is in many ways more important than the WHAT!!!

this doorknob Osama ben lat or whatever is a nutcasae, and if he's responsible, then he shoudl fry, I share the opinions of those posts I read and the opinions I have heard here and elsewhere...he has taken HIS view of US foreign policy and skewed it into a bizarre religion of hate that rained death on all those poor innocent people...

I am not insensitive to all this, I have decided that my approach is to look at the why...in order to understand the what...
To criticize a given US policy is fine. Have a ball. It is abill
Sep 12, 2001 1:24 PM
freedom we like to give our citizens and others in the world, and we are very happy that you, as we, have the luxury of exercising it. It's hopefully at the core of whatever we do.
But that's not what you did. Re-read your post. You criticized THAT America gets involved. Besides, I assure you, those animals did not fly into the worldwide symbols of American financial and military power because of some inconsistencies that admittedly exist about whether we should have got involved in East Timor. Listen, if we are pro-Israel, and we are not always, and I further assure you that not everyone agrees that we are so darned pro-Israel, it is because Israel WILL NEVER DO WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY. Not to Israel's worst enemy would Israel, unprovoked other than by abstract policy, attack another country's citizenry in the cruelly cowardly way we were attacked yesterday. Israel does target citizenry, sort of, but rarely with deadly force and then almost always in response to deadly force. Maybe Israeli justice is a little rougher than we'd like to see, and I'm sure that mistakes get made, but Israel at least tries to make sure that those guys who are shot at by Israeli gunships have all ordered Israelis to die. And they don't much concern themselves with abstraction. Hell, it is virtually the stated purpose, or was not so very long ago, of every Arab nation that Israel is an illegitimate state whose existence offends Islam and that Israel must be eradicated, yet Israel has never acted offensively. Strong defense, maybe, with some buffer zones once drawn out of its territory, but not offensive. It is a democratic nation with, if not impeccable humanitarian credentials, at least understandable ones.
To criticize a given US policy is fine. Have a ball. It is abear1
Sep 12, 2001 1:55 PM
Point taken. Those animals flew into WTC and killed so many beause they were &^#ed up and had lost their perspective and were fooled by the dogma they have been fed.

You know, it seems like the US will always be a target: you are the 'big boy' out there. Maybe my view is simplistic, but you are the target out there BECAUSE of your power and your (sometimes) justified role as global 'policeman'.

I think the major part of my comments is linked to self-preservation: I worry about what implications this has for the rest of us...specifcially my two young children. I dont want to see this escalate and become a global conflict, which it has the potential to become! I want to be around to ride my bike for a long time to come...
While the US's involvement in foreign affairs undoubtedly led,Tanks
Sep 12, 2001 2:14 PM
bear1: I have to admit, yours is an incredible post. Particularly at this time. You do make a good point about the Gulf War. It was most certainly fought for oil and the American (as well as the world's) economy. I flew in that conflict (now I'm an airline pilot). If I'm not mistaken, I believe I saw some of your people there too (doing their part).

I could be wrong here, but I dont recall seeing either American or Canadian troops in E Timor.
While the US's involvement in foreign affairs undoubtedly led,bear1
Sep 12, 2001 3:04 PM
correct on e timor...the point being that western nations (including canada who has given $$ and aid to indonesia - for which we should be ashamed) seem to heelp when it suits them...and ignore it when ther is a $$ to be made. Canada has had long-standing trade relations with indoensia, and chose to preserve thos economic linkages and ties and ignore the genocide of the east timorese.

I also dont argue the fact that canada was involved in the Gulf, somethingI did not agree with at the time, but I am only one vote...

On another issue: airline pilots: there have been discussions on how this could have been avoided (somethign which I think is also innapropriate), including the role of the pilots - someone where I work said that commercial airline pilots are not supposed to leave their cockpits, and yet they clearly did, as I undertand it to try and save flight attendants who were being killed (by the way I applaud the pilot's attempts to save their crew. they deserve to be lauded and their efforts recognized..). As an airline pilot, what ARE the 'rules' about this, or are there any?

NOTE: I am ONLY relating what I heard...and I know that there is almost NO chance that any of those pilots willingly flew their aircraft into the Pentagon or the WTC towers...they were most likely murdered before the collisions...its hard to fathom what the inside of those aircraft must have been like...it must be tough for you as a pilot to see that happen to your colleagues.
While the US's involvement in foreign affairs undoubtedly led,Tanks
Sep 12, 2001 4:36 PM
bear1: It is true that we are not supposed to leave the cockpit. But, in this case it seems the pilots had little choice. They certainly had no idea that the terrorist were planning to fly the aircraft into the WTC. I'm sure I would have reacted the same way.

I agree with your assessment of the final minutes. No pilot could be forced to fly into a building full of people. They were most likely disabled or locked in the back with little knowledge of what was happening up front. This is all speculation of course, hopefully we will learn more in the near future.
While the US's involvement in foreign affairs undoubtedly led,bear1
Sep 12, 2001 5:20 PM
Thanks for your reply. I have had peopel around me criticize the pilots, and suggest that they should have crashed the plane or somthing, or done a steep dive to scamble the plane or soemthing, but there is NO WAY we can even begin to guess how we might react. All we can/should do is feel for the victims and their families.
To clarify herenutmegger
Sep 12, 2001 5:15 PM
the US did provide troops to provide communications and logistical support to Australian and UN forces deployed in E. Timor. It was certainly not a large scale operation which may reflect that we have no significant national interest at stake in E. Timor. bear1 also criticized our lack of involvement in Rwanda. While granted we took no action to prevent the atrocities there, the US did supply non-combat troops to provide sustainment to the refugees there. That involvement came on the heels of the Somalia debacle where we learned that we neither understand Africa nor have a significant interest in certain parts of Africa. I don't see how we as a nation can please the entire world and I also understand that our policies may not always sit well some. However, to change the course of our nation to please or submit to the will of the terrorists is out of the question. Appeasement as we know too well, never works.
To clarify herebear1
Sep 12, 2001 5:24 PM
In no way am I suggesting that you (or anyone) submit to the will of terrorists, nor can you change the course of the nation overnight. This was all an attempt to suggest that ideological changes or policy restrucutring at some level might prevent this type of thing? who knows?

I had hoped that people would find merit in raising some idealogical/policy issues. In retrospect, I spoke too soon, and shoudl have held off my opinion til later.

in the background of all this I keep seeing that second plane slice into the tower...I have tried not to lose sight of that, or that this was about innocent people, and not just politics.
There are different Canadian viewsMel Erickson
Sep 13, 2001 6:31 AM
My daughter sent me the following.

America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is
the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the UnitedStates.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon – not once, but several times and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central
went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

Even the US cannot fix all the worlds problems. We must pick and choose. Because some don't like our choices should not deter us from making those choices.
There are different Canadian viewsTanks
Sep 13, 2001 9:50 AM
Mel Erickson: Thank you.
What an ignorant, insensitive post! Have you no respect?Kristin
Sep 12, 2001 12:36 PM
I'm shocked to see your post. Its insensitive and out of place. The thread about handguns has appeared several times and has always been in jest. These were humorous posts and meant to poke fun at some of the tension experienced in modern western civilization, where free speech and individual rights are often in conflict. I doubt anyone here, except for police officers, carries a gun on a bike. Think how stupid that would be in the event of a crash! You sir, must be quite qullable indeed.

It sounds to me like you think you have it all figured out. Well, I very much doubt that. If you did, you'd of probably possed the wisdom to not post what you did. Expressing these opinions at this time is insensitive and demonstrates a lack of compassion.
What an ignorant, insensitive post! Have you no respect?bear1
Sep 12, 2001 12:57 PM
see my post to the guy above.

You misunderstand me. As an outsider (with people in NYC so please dont dismiss me out of hand) I have an opportunity to raise an issue you might not be willing (or able) to see.

I shed tears as many americans did last night watching CNN/ ABC/PBS/CBS..I spent all night watching in horrar and disblief at what happened.

I think to dismiss a comment as insensitive is to stick your head in the sand. Mine is NOT an attack on America, but an outsiders view of what happened, and to SUGGEST (only suggest) that reasons need to be considered and perhaps consider WHY it happened so that it doesnt happen again!

I may be gullible, but I live in a country where handguns and long rifles are STRICTLY controlled, and we have less gun-realted killings than your country and our children tend to NOT kill each other in schools...I raised the point as a springboard off the reactionary comments some postes were making about going in SOMEWHERE guns blazing, and that MAY be (I am not saying its THE reason) WHY what happened yesterday happened...

don't assume that your nation holds the monoploy on greif and shock - and dont assume that by making a simple comment about WHY (and if you listened to some of the experts and commentary on CNN or ABC yesterday, I think these issues may have come up...) this happened.

I am not insensitive, I am only thinking beyond the current moment, and trying to 'discuss' the issue. I do not lack compassion...I might have been 'premature' in my post, but is discussion not valid? I am trying to be respectful of what your nation is going through, and as I said, I am still trying to locate a personal friend in NYC, so beleive me, I know...but to just 'react' and call me ignorant and insensitive is harsh.
Look in your own backyardDave Hickey
Sep 12, 2001 1:11 PM
These terrorists came into the US via Canada. Maybe Canadians should look at your own immigration policy. Does Canada make it policy to harbor terrorists? I'm sorry, but your comments are neither welcomed or warranted on this board
NO, Look in YOUR own backyardbear1
Sep 12, 2001 1:21 PM
Of course we don't harbour terrorists! DID they come via Canada? That means they cross the US border, right? US Border guards check 'em out before THEY let them in, right? So it's OUR fault? Shall we talk about the security precautions at US airports for domestic flights? Whose 'backyard' should we really look at??

Your view that comments like this are nether welcome nor warranted is 'typical': maybe not welcome, but given what happened yesterday, certainly warranted!

How about we all agree to disagree and talk about bikes again? I was just trying to make a comment, and in retrposect, I spoke too soon...I should have waited for a few weeks...but I am trying to come to grips with this as well....my world has changed too....
NO, Look in YOUR own backyardbear1
Sep 12, 2001 1:21 PM
Of course we don't harbour terrorists! DID they come via Canada? That means they cross the US border, right? US Border guards check 'em out before THEY let them in, right? So it's OUR fault? Shall we talk about the security precautions at US airports for domestic flights? Whose 'backyard' should we really look at??

Your view that comments like this are nether welcome nor warranted is 'typical': maybe not welcome, but given what happened yesterday, certainly warranted!

How about we all agree to disagree and talk about bikes again? I was just trying to make a comment, and in retrposect, I spoke too soon...I should have waited for a few weeks...but I am trying to come to grips with this as well....my world has changed too....
I agree, let's shake hands....Campy or Shimano?Dave Hickey
Sep 12, 2001 1:30 PM
I agree, let's shake hands....Campy or Shimano?bear1
Sep 12, 2001 1:41 PM
Shimano :( for now,
but I think I see Campy Daytona in my future if my fnancial manager, i mean my wife...agrees!
I agree, let's shake hands....Campy or Shimano?Dave Hickey
Sep 12, 2001 4:57 PM
See we do agree. I'm Shimano also. I would like to try Campy but my financial manager(wife) says no.
To Kristin...and Everyone Else on this BoardJon Billheimer
Sep 12, 2001 1:32 PM
Kristin,

I am Canadian. I do not share the opinions expressed here. I think they're irrelevant in the present
context. I do not know anyone who shares these opinions. Yesterdays events were unmitigated
acts of evil. Our hearts go out to all victims, their families, and the American people.

I feel that foreign policy debates at this time are inappropriate and insensitive. Please do not generalize
the above comments to represent any sort of collective "Canadian" opinion.
To Kristin...and Everyone Else on this Boardbear1
Sep 12, 2001 1:43 PM
I don't profess to speak for all Canadians, just my own opinion...and in retrospect, it was premature to raise my opinion at this time. I apologize to anyone I offended. Its my way of coming to terms with it all....

I DO, however, share your view that yesterday was a massive act of evil.
Jon, Thanks ... a question for BearKristin
Sep 13, 2001 5:54 AM
Thanks for your post. My comments were directed toward Bear individually. I don't think ill of Canadians or believe that Bear represents your entire nation. I appreciated reading your post. Thanks. I was reacting to what seemed a horrible choice of timing. It was akin to approaching a mother at her sons funeral and attempting to discuss how she could have been a better parent. I did, however, react badly to a post that offended me. I should not have. Since things first began to unfold Tuesday, I've reminded myself many times to offer extra grace to everyone. We're all struggling. I failed at this point, and I'm sorry Bear. I should have held my tongue.

Bear, Did you find your missing friend?
Jon, Thanks ... a question for Bearbear1
Sep 13, 2001 8:05 AM
kristin:

Let me first apologize for my atrocious timing of my post. It was not my intention to offend or anger people. My personal tendency is to try to find cause in events. I spoke too soon and in a way that was not sensitive to you or you nation. I am sorry.

My friend's office was located three blocks from the WTC towers. he called yesterday afternoon to say he was OK, that he saw the second plane hit (but the office thought it was an accident) and was evacuated before the collapse. His daughter works for a big investment firm in NYC (I was worried that her offie was in the WTC)but her office was some distance away. All are well. Thank you for asking.
I'm gladKristin
Sep 13, 2001 10:48 AM
Thanks Bear for your apology. I'm sorry I snapped. So many people want to discuss the rights and wrongs of this whole thing. I guess its a valid way of coping. Its just not how I cope. I need time to just be sad. I also can't deal with political debate. It gives me a complex. I handle things much better on a smaller scale (i.e. how can I help someone today). I don't really want to fix my countries problems, nor am I qualified. At election time, I just try to make the wisest choice possible based on what I value.

I think this will be my last post. I've enjoyed this community, but the discussions as of late (and in the past) are too stressful. So, I'll take my leave. I still do hope all in NY are okay. Especially Nigel and Thioderik (trollman).

God Bless,
Kristin
I hope you will reconsider......Len J
Sep 13, 2001 11:15 AM
as you have added value to this forum.

I hope you can remember that there is a large core of good, well intentioned people on this board that continually make it worthwhile in spite of some of the contention. I hope you remember the good people.

If you need to leave us, I for one, wish you well. I also. for one, will miss you.

Len
God Bless Americadavidl
Sep 12, 2001 3:05 PM
This guy is an idiot.

You should have started wearing a helmet just a little sooner. Say Jack, did you know that some of those thugs came in through Canada? Find the "Canadian Braindamaged Foreign Policy Forum" and lead the way. It's easy to sit up north and coast.

Stick to cycling from now on - except your posts are probably just as lame in that area too.
God Bless Americabear1
Sep 12, 2001 3:15 PM
bite me. as I said earlier- YOUR border guards let them through...YOUR flight schools seemed to have given them their training...YOUR airport (in)security let their luggage (with plastic knives) on the planes....

call me an idiot, but people dont bomb my home town...
for god's sake...this was meant to be a discussion of what I saw as an important aspect of this, but if you are too 'pride-bound' to look at it, that's your problem.

I have already apologized for offending people...I work things through in my own way...and trust me, this is the LAST time I try to engage people in any kind of discussion...especially south of the 49th parallel (that's the border, in case you need to be reminded....)
God Bless Americadavidl
Sep 12, 2001 4:05 PM
That's right, bear1, you're an arrogant idiot know-it-all. Thanks for sharing how it all works with us. Why don't you just work things through without insulting all of the rest of us down here. You cannot imagine how offensive your posts are in the light of what happened. You must have been eating out of some of those lead-lined cans the old explorers lost up north. You are fortuinate that you live in a part of the world that really doesn't matter.
God Bless Americabear1
Sep 12, 2001 5:17 PM
Your message sums it all up. America is the best, and the rest of the world doesnt matter. That's the attitude that engenders the hate peopel have on for your country (me and my country excluded - we dont hate you, we (I) are just scared of you and your enemies...).

Other posts have lumped me in with 'america-bashers' - that's not what I'm doing. From my past observations Amercians (like you) cannot bear criticism and self-criticism is not soemthing you ever entertain. If you governemnt does it, it must be right. For the 10th time today, the SOLE purpose of this (and I admit it was badly timed, and I am sorry about that) was to suggest that we consider why this sh&* happens in the world. And what might be changed so that it doesnt happen again. **I hope the response to this post is NOT "bomb the hell out of them..." because as another post further down this page suggests, violence begets more violence.

Knee-jerk reactions don't help the situation, nor do insults, which I point out that YOU were the first to begin here.

Can we stop now? I'm bloodied and quite unhappy with the direction this is going.

I just got a voice mail on my phone that my friend in NYC has turned up alive and I'm going to call him to hear his voice again....
God Bless Americadavidl
Sep 12, 2001 6:49 PM
Yes, you can denigrate and criticize the USA, yet live under it's protection. Enjoy!
God Bless AmericaLLSmith
Sep 13, 2001 2:37 AM
Bear1-since I have been visiting ths board I have made it a point not to respond to non cycling/flame type post.Your post got my attention.Please take a little time to think about something today.It sounds as though freedom and family are important in you life. Why do you think you are able to enjoy this freedom? Just give it some good hard thought.
I can't stand that attitudeDog
Sep 12, 2001 3:54 PM
I once spoke to a woman from Ireland when we both were in our twenties. She spoke about the U.S. meddling throughout the world, and how the world hates that. In nearly the same breath, after I pointed out how the U.S. saved the planet in both WWI and WWII, how thousands of U.S. soldiers gave their lives to save foreigners throughout the world (and this was well before Kuwait, too), she had the audacity to reply that the world resented the U.S. then, too, as it waited far too long to become involved. ????

Which way do you want it, World? You want the U.S. to butt out, and other countries be damned if a Hitler wants to slaughter you, or do you want our help? Do you want to direct when and where U.S. citizens will give their lives for you?

The world if full of malcontent, envious, lazy souls who hate the U.S., but will be the first to demand help at the first sign of need, whether is be financial, food, military, or anything else. Bunch of ingrates. My tax dollars go to assist people who protest in the streets against my country. I don't get it.

Yes, this burns me. I can't stand the hypocrisy and derision in sentiments such as that of "bear1."

Maybe there is something to be said for isolationism.

Dog
AgreedVlad the Impaler
Sep 12, 2001 4:14 PM
I was in Austraila when the East Timor thing went down and was having a conversation with a young Australian guy. He was comenting on how the U.S. Butts into everyones business. As the conversation proceded, he stated he was slightly worried about Indonesia possibly attacking Australia (we both realized this was a very slim possibility indeed). I asked what would happen if that occured he said, "No worries mate, the U.S. would come help us out." Interesting.
i have toWoof the dog
Sep 13, 2001 1:16 AM
We didn't win WWII per se (sp?). Europe and particularly Soviet Union did because they suffered the most while U.S. waited. I think I read Russians lost more people than Jews did from all of Hitler's Europe combined. And just think how many D-day quality battles russians fought and died in. Second point regarding Vlad's post: see, your logic is not at its best because other countries are in position to criticize us AND ask for help because everyone knows U.S. needs other countries to survive. Thus, if we don't help Aussies or Russia, we lose business, very simple and yes, quite interesting the way I turned it around, no? I refuse to believe in anything you will tell me in response. I will just laugh.

Enough is enough, who cares about stupid politics.

I am agnostic and I find it rediculous to say any kind of prayers. What does a moment of silence do if I will remember the event forever? Those who do pray remind me of brainwashing and everything else codified morality of yours stands for. Read some Nietzche or Rorty. I am simply glad I wasn't there and I feel great sorrow for families of those who died.

Sincerely
Woof the dog.
Nihilismnova
Sep 13, 2001 8:17 AM
is where you turn for guidance in times of crisis? Interesting. So if you are shot in the head on your way home today, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but I'll feel sorry for your family. No pause or moment of reflection for you is warranted, however.
you areWoof the dog
Sep 14, 2001 2:20 AM
confusing Nietzche for a nihilist although he was pretty much a father of existentialism. Nietzsche hoped to escape nihilism (the belief that there are no objective values or morality). He thought that nihilism was both the result of asserting the existence of God and thus robbing this world of significance, and the result of denying God and thus robbing everything of meaning. The above little section could be found at http://atheism.about.com/library/weekly/aa042600b.htm
also read this:
http://scrye.com/~station/dissertation.html

Part of me says that in the end you are right, it doesn't really matter. But certainly, I don't need your pity. Oh, and who said I have a family, maybe I live by myself.
Sincerely

Woof, the bitch-slap dog
kantnova
Sep 14, 2001 6:26 AM
Great. Now lecture us about Kant and Camus.

So you need to live with someone to have a family? What about the female that gave birth to you and nurtured you? What about her family, the males she mated with, and any meaningful relationships you may have, regardless of living arrangements?

No meaningful relationships in your life? What a surprise.
I love you tooWoof the dog
Sep 14, 2001 6:49 PM
I did not tell the truth, I have a family, so what? That doesn't change anything, really. Moreover, I sincerely do not understand your unwillingness to learn something about any of these interesting thinkers. I don't know a whole lot at all, but a little of this and that definitely helped me.

Why get all fired up about my view? Is it something that is, quoting Doug, "dangerous?" Why involve anger just because someone views the world differently? No good reason, we both know it, so just leave me alone, ok? Please, don't bother posting something in response, or I will just laugh harder and certainly won't answer.

Sincerely
Woof the dog.
As of today, Russia lostnova
Sep 13, 2001 8:27 AM
Enduring political and economic systems determine who won the war. Capitalism and democracy/republic/representative governments in Europe, including Russia, are the enduring legacy of the war. The Russia of 1945 no longer exists.

In it's basic form, the USA of 1945 is alive and well.

Body counts do not have a lot to do with it.

I will concede that Russia won the Cold War in Cuba. A devestating loss for capitalism and representative government. (I meant to be sarcastic there)
I agree with you too WoofVlad the Impaler
Sep 13, 2001 4:00 PM
I have a degree in modern military history. So of course I realize we didn't "save the world". The Russians lost close to 25 million in WW2 we lost 440,000 on all fronts. As far as the U.S. needing other countries to survive, of course that's true and they need us. Whether the world loves or hates the U.S. and whether we love or hate them that's not going to change. So the reason these countries criticize us and then ask for our help is because they need us. As far as the Australian guy I was talking to, we had a splendid time getting drunk together in that most friendly and beautiful country.
Well said.look271
Sep 12, 2001 4:17 PM
Lets see. Europe is free due to us. Kuwait is not Hussain's back yard. Yeah, we screw up (Vietnam, Korea), but is the world a better place because of the US? Bet my red, white and blue ass, it is! It ain't perfect, but it't the best game in town.
Uncle SamI told you so!
Sep 12, 2001 4:52 PM
<Uncle Sam "Should I not do this?" 8/30/01 8:52am>
America BashingJon Billheimer
Sep 12, 2001 5:32 PM
Haven't some of you learned anything from this? Listen to Great Britain's Tony Blair: this is not just
about the United States. This is about international terrorism and lawlessness. We are all in this
together. And we'd better respond co-operatively and with one voice worldwide. We'd better learn
to expand our personal and nationalistic boundaries. America bashing at this time is repugnant.

Unfortunately, America is a symbol of power and wealth, but tomorrow the target could be Toronto,
or London, or Moscow, etc. So let's please grow up a little. Americans also do not need to feel
thin-skinned or defensive in these circumstances. Observe the response from the rest of the world:
everyone's right here with you.
Dog, I can't stand that attitude either but..........Len J
Sep 13, 2001 3:37 AM
I do think people are overreacting to "bear1"'s posts.

I just went back and reread his post and (while he admits that they were in poor timing & I agree) the fundamental point he is making is sound IMHO. I don't hear him saying what the woman from Ireland was saying to you Dog, I hear him counseling that the sanest thing to do at this point is to step back and think about what the root causes of this hatred of us is. While he suggests some reasons that are arguable (as everyone who responded demonstrates) let's not lose the fundamental issue that he is raising, that is "What is the root cause & what is our responsibility (if any)? If we ignore this important step I believe that we (or our children) will regret it.

This whole discussion reminds me of that old story about fighting brothers. We may fight like hell with each other but god help an outsider who takes a shot at either one of us! I wonder if the reaction to "bear1" would have been so strong if he was American.

I think "bear1" 's post was heartfelt, sincere, and an attempt to help. I also think it was illtimed and felt like someone from outside taking a shot. I do commend him for (mostly) staying on the high ground, admitting his mistakes & continuing to be genuine in his pain.

"Bear1", we are an injured people right now, more sensitive than usual. We are in the anger stage of grief right now. America & Americans are and will feel this deeply and will be harder on ourselves, with ourselves, than most people can imagine. And we will respond, and if history is any indication, we will grow from this.

My .02

Len
Len, I'm an American andscottfree
Sep 13, 2001 5:16 AM
you got it just exactly right. I'm raw as as hell about this too, but I admit I'm a little surprised at how some of the normally sane people on this board jumped all over Bear1's rather mild (and reasonable) suggestion that we take a look at ourselves to understand just WHY these people hate us so much.

I'm raw enough to endorse any suggestion that involves cooking Afghanistan into glass, though, so nobody accuse me of 'appeasement!'
Dog, I can't stand that attitude either but..........bear1
Sep 13, 2001 8:16 AM
Thanks Len.

In retrospect I REALLY wish I had held back for a couple of weeks. My mistake.
Two weeks ago on this boardnova
Sep 13, 2001 8:08 AM
Kristin and MJ were attacking people, including myself, for suggesting that the United States was the prime example in the world today for a free society.

One pro-US poster who suggested that it was US involvement in WWII that set the stage for the current freedom in Europe was labeled "ethnocentric" and ignorant. I made a post inviting non-US citizens to inform us on how their countries came to enjoy their current freedoms without US involvement, and I was attacked as being a typical uneducated American who gets his history lessons from Hollywood.

Those attacks came from two members of this board who are obviously in the US, and who appear to be US citizens. Yet no one responded to the question. MJ simply said he wasn't going to play the role of teacher.

I'll ask the question again: If you are in another country and are currently living in a free and democratic society (let's not get bogged down in symantics of Republic v. Democracy), then I honestly encourage you to post to this board and tell us how you came to enjoy such freedom without the influence of the American people (which includes our elected officials).

Please do tell.

PS - I'm 35 years old and was in school for 20 years of my life, attending major universities in NYC and DC. I hold advanced degrees, and I'm not entertaining any more uniformed posts about how if I have to ask the question, I must be ignorant and/or uneducated.
Too numb, my wife, kids (and me) too freaked out.bill
Sep 12, 2001 8:10 AM
In Arlington, there were sirens, emergency vehicles everywhere, heavy traffic, lots of solemn faces, too stunned to be cranky, blocked intersections (you can go that way, not this way -- but, I live right there! -- turn that way, sir), and smoke in the air. You could see the plume from the Pentagon rising all day. Helicopters overhead. The occasional growl of military aircraft instead of the usual humming commercial traffic. My wife left from downtown shortly after the Pentagon was hit, and all I could think about was I hope to hell someone knows how to protect those bridges. My kid asking what happened to the men flying the plane wouldn't they be the first ones to get hurt because if the plane flew into something they'd be right there what happened to the other people in the plane why did those men want to kill themselves where will those people sleep tonight?
No, I didn't ride yesterday.
I realize that the heightened alert in Washington and the Pentagon losses pale behind the devastation in New York, and I can only begin to imagine what they're going through.
re: should haveTurtleherder
Sep 12, 2001 8:14 AM
I decided that my head was just not in it and I would probably just lose focus and hurt myself so I did not go. I probably should have as it would have been a good release for all the foul thoughts I was having last night. Will ride tonight and go as fast and far as I can to try to outrun some of yesterdays images.
re: did you or didn't you?badabill
Sep 12, 2001 8:16 AM
Feeling helpless about events I have no control over, riding is an outlett. Riding keeps me grounded, lets me think and burn off frustration. Did 40mi at a steady pace, rode past the Arco Olympic training center in Chula Vista that was locked down because of a terrorist threat. For some reason that simple fact hit home how tragic and deep felt this horror is. We are now living in a changed world.
canceled ride to spend time w/family.gregg
Sep 12, 2001 8:17 AM
My s.o. and some friends have a somewhat regularly schedule ride on Tuesday nights, but since I worked a full day, I figured nothing was more important than spending time with the WHOLE family. So we picked up our little girl and drove over to my parents place(as did my sister) to have dinner and discuss, of course, the days events.

It seems like most of you who DID ride, also spent time with your family, I don't think you should feel guilty about that at all. In retrospect, I should have shined work, gone for a ride, and then spent the family time!

-gregg

God Bless America
I just couldn't. (nm)_blt_
Sep 12, 2001 8:25 AM
sdf
my bike sat in the garagebianchi boy
Sep 12, 2001 8:27 AM
I couldn't pull myself away from the TV set and felt too numb and depressed to ride. I needed a recovery day anyway. I worked as a reporter for many years and events like this bring back a lot of memories, good and bad. I'm just glad I didn't have to go out and cover a horrible event like this.
re: did you or didn't you?Elena
Sep 12, 2001 8:47 AM
I did, but only because I'd commuted to work yesterday morning and had to ride home.

It was a very emotional ride. After trying all day to get news and rumors, and finally seeing some images at lunch time, the tranquillity of the country roads under the same blue sky was too much. I searched the entire sky for the sign of a commercial plane because that would mean that it wasn't really true.

My prayers go out to everyone.
more cyclists out than usualDaveG
Sep 12, 2001 8:54 AM
I debated not riding out of respect to the victims and the gravity of the situation, but then I couldn't convince myself why that would help. So I rode to excape/detach from the situaation. Strangely there were MANY more cyclists out than usual. perhaps because many left work early; perhaps they wanted to escape too. With very little car traffic on the roads the ride was quire eerie.
rode home onlyalex the engineer
Sep 12, 2001 9:06 AM
I had the Trek with me at work yesterday, since it was supposed to be a good day, and I wanted to get a good ride in after work. We are working on a project which has a crucial deadline this friday, so I had to stay for the entire day. I was so worried about people I knew who worked downtown, even a distant relation that worked in a high floor of the south tower (still not heard from as of this a.m.) that, what work I did do was slipshod, and probably will need to be redone.
When the day was over, I actually considered leaving the bike in the office and going home by bus, but eventually I decided that the ride home would be good for me.
I took a few backstreets (traffic wasn't paying attention to anything), and went up a fairly steep hill near my house, probably in record time.
It wasn't until I was at the top that I relised that my shifter was still in the 15 tooth cog!! I NEVER ride that hill in less than the 17, usually finishing the last 1/2 in the 19 tooth! Well, I managed to get a lot of anxiety out on that climb, but my legs are sore today. Add to that the fact that people from NYC were calling up at 2 a.m., to say that they were allright, and another call at 3:30 from a cousin in Toronto seeing if I could find out anything about his wife's mother (as alluded to before).
I really didn't feel like riding in today, but I had to get in very early, so I popped the light on the Cannondale, bundled up, and rode in.
Maybe I'll feel like riding tonight.
got my last ride in for a whilematt
Sep 12, 2001 9:23 AM
I went for an early morning ride to get it in before I had to go into work to fly. I pushed hard(35miles) to make it home in time to get cooled off and streched out and still not be late. As I walked in the door, I turned on the TV and got in the shower. I didn't even know what was going on until I got out and my pager from work was blaring. Things fell into place real fast from there as you can imagine.

Now I sit in my house with bags packed, waiting for the call to leave. I don't know where it will be to, but your President is serious about reparations. I feel proud to be selected to be able to fill the hole in all Americans guts they felt yesterday. I work with professionals who are trained to deal with the mission ahead of us. I hope to leave a message to all terrorists that we the people of the world, not just America, will not tolerate the fear you want to instill.

I won't be able to ride for a long time, so I ask all readers to get a few extra miles in for me during my absence. I have a stack of bike mags packed in my bag to keep me in touch with what I consider my reality, but it will not replace the beauty of fall in it's colors and wonderful weather.
Matt
God speed Matt! Be safe and we will all be thinking of you!Live Steam
Sep 12, 2001 9:38 AM
We will all be proud of you too. Your mission is not enviable, but it is also not unappreciated. I am sorry you and other good people like you have to put yourselfs in harms way to preserve what many times, is take for granted. I will ride those extra miles as hard as I can get my legs to turn. And when you get back maybe we can ride together. Be safe!
Bill
You've got our supportTig
Sep 12, 2001 9:55 AM
Putting in the extra miles for you is the easy part. More importantly you will have many unseen friends thinking of you while you are serving us. You have our full moral support in your difficult duties ahead. Come back in one piece, OK?
I watched those buildings fall right in front ofLive Steam
Sep 12, 2001 9:25 AM
my very eyes. Some of you know I live on Staten Island. For ten years I lived across the harbor from Manhattan and had a picture window full of the NYC skyline. Most prominent were the Twin Towers. For those ten years I rode the Staten Island Ferry across the harbor to lower Manhattan and would walk up to my office in the shadow of them. They were just a marvel of engineering. Yesterday I just stood at the waterfront and watched in disbelief at what I was witnessing. The Twin Towers were on fire! And then they weren't there any more. We all watched as the disappeared into the ground. Most of us that were there couldn't speak.

This morning, every Wednesday morning, we have a short club ride of about 30 miles. I was having trouble getting motivated to go out of the house. I was feeling guilt of some sort. Why should I be riding when there are so many people hurt by this senseless act. So many unaccounted for. So many people that have to dig through that rubble to retrieve what is left of mostly hard working decent people. I rode down to the waterfront as I now live a few miles away from my old condo. I rode past a quarter mile of fire trucks and ambulances and men and women waiting to be called into action. I felt guilty that I was riding my bicycle and they were looking at the gruesome task ahead. I thought I should be helping, doing something other than riding my damn bicycle! I just couldn't put it all into perspective. The loss of lives. The waste of it all and I was heading down to our meeting point in the park to ride our bikes!

When I got there everyone looked the same. Everyone had a strange look in their eyes. There was very little talking. We started out of the park. As we did so, the group of about 12 of us, started to break apart almost immediately. This was not the norm. On Wednesday mornings it's an easy spin with lost of chatter. This morning we were there together, but riding separately. I guess we all had to work this out for ourselves. Actually, Camille, one of the people that was with us this morning and a regular on the rides, was out side and two blocks away from the Towers when the first jet hit. She is obviously fine physically, but I could see that she was not in her usual good-natured spirits. She said to me "I looked up and saw the jet fly right into that building". She said it as if she couldn't believe what she was telling me - as if she couldn't believe those words would ever come from her mouth.

Well we all finally convened at our halfway point - the bagel shop. I think it was then that we all realized that we were riding for a purpose. It may sound silly, but I think we all felt like we were riding for freedom. We were riding because we were still able to, because we could. We were riding because those bastards are not going to take our freedoms from us. I am still sad, but I am feeling better. I am going to go help in the only way I know how. I am going to go give blood today, and then I am going to live my life as best I know how. I am going to be thankful for what I have - my family, friends and the ability to go out and ride my bike!
felt sick but had the best ride anywayTig
Sep 12, 2001 9:36 AM
I, like most of you, was in shock and feeling completely numb from the TV coverage. I finished up work and made the 35-minute drive back home in a daze. Body and mind felt sick. The promise of meeting some pro riders helped me get off my arse and turn the dang TV off. Watching everything over and over is NOT the best way to handle this.

The pro teams (I'm starting to refer them as "the pro's from Dover", from the MASH movie) didn't show up, but the whole club was there and ready to turn some emotions into physical pain. 4 minutes into the ride, the first all out attack came with 3 off the front. I hopped on the 2nd group bridging up. We finally caught them at the light. The pace averaged 25-26 with attacks going off at 29+ in a crosswind. I'm not in very good shape yet, but somehow managed to not get dropped. I think the kinetic energy built up earlier in the day kept me going. It felt great to be cranking so fast for so long. Even my recovery times were shorter than usual.

I later dropped off more out of the need to cruise alone than pain or tiredness. A solo ride completed the tension relief. Made it home in time to meet my wife getting off from her nursing job. As good as the ride was, holding my wife in my arms was much better! We should never forget about what is really important in life.
I rode too but it didn't help (nm)Rob
Sep 12, 2001 9:51 AM
re: did you or didn't you?totrod
Sep 12, 2001 9:52 AM
My riding buddy and I did an after-work ride. It was supposed to be my normal 'long' route home, but we could not get across the Ballard Locks due to the terrorism threat. It was also eerie seeing no shipping traffic in Puget Sound excpet a US Navy Frigate patrolling back and forth. No air traffic overhead but a single fighter.
The ride did me a lot of good though. I felt like a normal person at the end rather than feeling the siege mentality I had developed during the day. I think from now on I'll refer to my LeMond as my therapist. Better than pharmaceuticals, and much more fun than couch time at the shrink's.
Hope everyone is doing OK.

Bill
I did - the usual therapy didn't helpTypeOne
Sep 12, 2001 10:37 AM
I don't know why I got out there, probably because the tv images were overwhelming. I still couldn't get them out of my head as I rode. I read posts that several people who rode were distracted, and I guess I was too.
I don't know. Riding has always been therapy for me. I don't know if it helped at all yesterday or on the way to work today, because I can't think of anything else but world events anyway. There was no "smiling away the miles."
Watched from Hoboken Train station area and...JL
Sep 12, 2001 10:43 AM
couldn't do it when I finally arrived home in Malvern, PA. I watched everything with my client, from their office in Hoboken and couldn't believe what I saw. It felt like we were watching a movie through this big window we were looking through. I had to walk to my hotel near the water, because no cars were allowed, get my things, check out and get back to my car. I hit no traffic in my southern direction, but I barely remember the ride. I arrived home and spent time with the family. I thought about riding, but was too drained to make the effort.

I have to go back when my client resumes their work schedule, and it will definitely be weird to look out that window again. We weren't "close", but to watch everything like that was a surreal feeling. Hopefully, I can get back to riding tomorrow, as I play catch up today and try not think about what happened for now.

Short answer: Didn't.
I commute into DC...Greg Taylor
Sep 12, 2001 11:17 AM
...and I'm here today. Showing up to work today sends a message -- if the President and Congress are here, I can report to my duty station as well. I'll admit that I rode slow, took time to chat with fellow bike commuters. Wednesday is normally "hammer day", but no one had the heart for it this morning. Bought a small flag to stick on my messenger bag for the ride home.
Glued to CNN all day4bykn
Sep 12, 2001 11:21 AM
Couldn't break myself away. I did go out today, Wednesday, and on a beautiful, cloudless late summer's day it was rather eerie looking across the whole sky and not seeing any vapor trails.
rode to and from work, strange strange ridemk_42
Sep 12, 2001 12:20 PM
I ride to and from work and my route goes past all of LAX. Both to and from work I was really bothered by the lack of planes; the silence made me jumpy.

On the way home I saw a lot more cyclists than usual but most seemed quiet and introspective. More notably I saw a LOT of police...they were everywhere. I live across the street from a police station and they had guards on the side walk and cars were constantly coming and going. Most of the police on my ride were because they were patrolling the area around LAX (streets were closed, the airport evacuated as a precaution) and some of it was probably just part of the national high alert protocol. I don't t know that the police presence was all that neccesary here but it makes me thankful that we live in a society where men with guns on every corner is not the norm.

_42
RodeKristin
Sep 12, 2001 12:22 PM
As a single person, its just as easy for me to process events alone at home or on my bike. I thought being around familiar faces would help. Our Tuesday group still meets unofficially and a handful of riders arrived last night. I must admit, that the ride kind of took my mind off of the days events. This, I think, was good for me. I needed an emotional time out. Unfortunately, I was still too sick to ride and am home ill again today.
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Some thoughts:

More than anything else, I have been impacted by the outpouring of compassion from other nations. Thank you---all of you!!! (I'm still in shock over the losses we've endured. My mind just can't accept it.) I must confess that I doubted other countries would care if anything bad happened to the US. And I'd suspected that, for the most part, people would point fingers and say we deserved it. I'm surprised and relieved to have been wrong. Thank you for showing your concern. It means so much.
Had to ride, it is therapeutic.RhodyRider
Sep 12, 2001 12:46 PM
Took a nice, easy, meditative spin down 1A to Narragansett Pier and communed with Mother Ocean for a quarter hour. Something about the eternal nature of the waves and the setting sun that buoyed my spirits a bit. Felt very unsettled all day, but the ride helped me keep my emotional equilibrium. Now I am going to schedule my blood donation and see if there is anything else I can do to aid in our National Recovery.
Hell yes...Tom C
Sep 12, 2001 12:58 PM
I did ride. The usual 50 mile tempo ride I always do. The terrorist is victorous if you allow him to change your life. I also don't agree with the sports journalists who favor cancelling ball games,football etc. on the grounds of how trivial they seem now compared to loss of life. Sports being stylized war ennobles humanity. We battle one another without killing one another which to my mind demonstates civility. Mourn if you must, but then get back to normal as quickly as possible.
re: did you or didn't you?davidl
Sep 12, 2001 1:19 PM
I came home, watched the coverage, and then rode about 20 faster than my usual. I see something like that and I have to do something active and strenuous.
Just my commute to work.look271
Sep 12, 2001 1:19 PM
My head was spinning, not my legs. Radio station that I listen to did their "lite lunch" around songs of solidarity today. Last on was Sara McLaughlin's "In the arms of the angels". Last straw. Cried like a baby. So many people killed, not knowing what happened or why. May God rest their souls.
Just my commute to work.look271
Sep 12, 2001 1:20 PM
My head was spinning, not my legs. Radio station that I listen to did their "lite lunch" around songs of solidarity today. Last one was Sara McLaughlin's "In the arms of the angels". Last straw. Cried like a baby. So many people killed, not knowing what happened or why. May God rest their souls.
Sorry about the double post!!look271
Sep 12, 2001 1:21 PM
Just my commute to work.bear1
Sep 12, 2001 3:08 PM
I fell apart watching the mother of one of the victims describe the cel phone call from her son who was on one of the planes......and then this morning I saw the passenger manifest for one of the planes on the NBC website, and there was a family from Mass with their 2-year old daughter...made me think of my own kids..."In the arms of the angels" was an appropriate choice...
too dazed yesterday ; solo ride today helped. nmgrassy knoll
Sep 12, 2001 4:32 PM
re: did you or didn't you?Dutchy
Sep 12, 2001 9:11 PM
Living in Australia I watched the events unfold on TV, Tuesday night our time. Like most people here, we stayed up till late in the night (4am) to watch with amazing disbelief what had happened. I had trouble sleeping, but I finally got to sleep. I woke at 7am and felt like crap I just couldn't believe it.

The Wednesday morning was a beautiful day, clear sunny no wind. I thought I should ride just to make the most of what life has to offer. I did feel guilty at first, I had tears welling in my eyes for most of my 40k/25mile ride, I was very upset and angry, I set a PB by 55secs.

Even though I don't live I the US or know anyone that does, I (like most Aussies) feel saddened that this type of act can take place at all, regardless of who is the victim. It is a sad day for humanity.

I wish our American friends good luck for the future.
CHEERS.
Didn't...Mike Prince
Sep 13, 2001 2:29 AM
Although I considered it. I normally cycle to/from work and just decided to drive home Tuesday. I found out about the events just an hour before quitting time (I'm an American ex-pat in the UK) and simply didn't have the energy for the 20 miles I normally ride home. Anyway, I wanted to get home quickly to be with my wife and twin 5-yr olds who needed some comforting as we are 5000 miles from home - felt like we were on the moon Tuesday.
short commute everydaycycleguy
Sep 13, 2001 5:58 AM
I have come home the last two days to watch the TV. I have an 8 hour tape that I plan on filling up. Not because I have some sickness. Because I want this to be personal. I want to hear from all the survivors, those who are looking for more survivors. Not because of some act of nature or human error. But by those who choose to destroy. I want to hear and record the stories of people who's life will be forever changed. I want to shed a tear with them and feel the suffering. I want this to be forever in my memory. And in my two boys as they grow older. I want to do what ever I can to see it does not happen again. It's easy for me to hate those who are responsible. But I do know that where ever they think they were going to go when they died, is not where they ended up.
I rode by myselfStarliner
Sep 14, 2001 8:06 PM
I watched the coverage, felt the emotional pain, then removed myself from the maddening crowd for a few hours to re-ground myself. Did a familiar 25 miles at an easy pace, but this time I took time to look at the beautiful late-summer scenery around me. It won't be long before fall comes down. The air was fresh and there was a warm breeze at times. It felt good.