Sep 11, 2001 10:01 PM
|ok, i was at Cycle 360 yesterday, and the guy was going off about Litespeed. "best bike...yadda yadda" and how wonderful the ride is. i went to the store planning on looking at Colnagos, and left with dreams of a Seven, Litespeed, or Look in my head (along with the Pinarello Prince). i really liked the look of the Look, but he told me that carbon has durability questions. he said that if i've got the money, to go for a Seven. i don't know what to do now, 'cause i was hoping to go to Italy this summer and get a P.P. now my questions...
1) are Litespeeds over-rated?
2) are Sevens over-rated/ worth the money? (how much are they, actually? like actual dollar amounts. he had the one with the carbon stays and seat tube in stock but i didn't look at the price)
4) how does the ride of the Seven compare to that of the Litespeed?
3) will the carbon of a Look frame hold up to crashes? will it hold up over a few years?
this is basicly going to be a dream bike of mine, and will probably spend more than i should, but i can justify it.
|Re: Seven (LONG!)||MikeC|
Sep 12, 2001 5:18 AM
|I have a Seven Odonata (ti/carbon) on order. To answer your cost question, the Odonata frame is $3,095, and the Axiom (all ti) is $2,595. I don't remember the exact price of their fork, but I think it's $350.
I chose the bike for two reasons: 1) the design and 2) it's made by Seven. I like the fundamentals of the design, and I did ride an Odonata before buying. There is no question that the carbon seatstays and seat tube save weight and add comfort. However, I couldn't flex the bb no matter how I tried (I'm only 150lb, though). I was also shocked by how much of a difference a 2lb weight savings makes in climbing.
I also like the way the bike looks!
Seven is also an amazing company. While Moots, Serotta, and some other small custom companies may match Seven's build quality, I don't think that anyone beats it. But before the build comes the customization. Seven and my dealer worked with me to determine every angle, every tube length, and every performance characteristic of the frame. The dealer alone spent three hours with me, first of all setting up my existing bike properly, then measuring me and my existing bike before setting me up on a Size Cycle. Then I filled out Seven's extensive questionnaire, after which they called me on the phone to probe for more detail.
In other words, you're not just paying for a bunch of metal tubes welded together. You're paying for a bunch of brainpower, calculations, experience, and customer attention, too. Is it worth $3,095? Once you get north of $2,000, I think it's easier to justify spending another grand to move from covering the cost of materials, manufacturing process, marketing, and profit to getting a truly first-class machine that's exactly right for your body and your riding style.
I've ridden the Litespeed Vortex. It's a great bike, but I felt that it achieved stiffness and precision at the cost of losing that magic titanium feel. Somehow, the Odonata delivers precision, stiffness, and "lively comfort" in one package.
I was concerned about the reliability of a carbon fiber/ti mix. Seven tells me that they get no higher percentage of returns of carbon/ti bikes than of ti only. And while theory suggests that carbon will not do as well in a crash as ti, their experience hasn't borne that out yet. Of course, I'd also guess that Odonatas are not raced that often!
Good luck with your decision. I suspect there are no "wrong" choices on your list. It just comes down to priorities.
|Re: Seven beats Serotta's quality?! LOL Not likely!!! -NM||Tig|
Sep 12, 2001 5:41 AM
|Read what I said...||MikeC|
Sep 12, 2001 5:58 AM
|"While Moots, Serotta, and some other small custom companies may match Seven's build quality, I don't think that anyone beats it."|
|Perhaps not, but...||PsyDoc|
Sep 12, 2001 6:39 AM
|...I have held 3 different Legend Ti frames and the weld quality, and finish were more poor/uneven than the Seven that I held. Granted, perhaps it was just these three Legend frames and this one particular Seven, but perhaps not.|
Sep 12, 2001 2:25 PM
|Up above you mentioned only two Serotta's with weld qulity problems. Which is it? Or is this a "fish story" that grows with each telling? |
BTW - you're probably the only person that I've come across that poo-poo's Serotta's welds. Not saying it can't happen, but it sounds like a 1st. After all they're made by humans, not robots.
|Grzy, relax. The guy had a subjective reaction to a friggin||bill|
Sep 12, 2001 2:46 PM
|bike frame. He didn't even try to objectify it. You seemed to want him to by goading him into it, and then, when he gives you a little bit of his experience, you jump on him for not having enough evidence. He doesn't owe it to you or to Serotta to like the frames or justify why he doesn't. He just doesn't like them. 'Nuff said. He really didn't say that he wanted anyone to approve of or agree with or disagree with his reasons. Maybe it's silly, and maybe he has narrowed his world unnecessarily, but it's his world. He seemed very candid about the whole thing and very careful NOT to say, "Serotta's suck and here's why." He said that he didn't like them. It's a bicycle frame, for heavens sake. He's entitled.|
Sep 13, 2001 8:54 AM
|I guess my problem is that he sounds like an ass.|
Sep 13, 2001 12:46 PM
|Check the post again. Yes, I have held three Legend Ti frames, but only two of them were 2001's. The other was a 1997 or 1998...I cannot remember. All I wanted to point out was that the "imperfections" I saw were on recent frames and not frames from 5-8 years ago. I have no idea what I did to piss you off, but if you do not like me for whatever reason, then so be it.|
|So you're getting the Odonata!||_blt_|
Sep 12, 2001 8:37 AM
|It sounds like you were able to test-ride both. What did you think of the feel between the Axiom and odonata? One of these days I'll have to ride the odonata. (Not that I'm in the market for another 7--or could afford it.)|
|So you're getting the Odonata!||MikeC|
Sep 12, 2001 9:40 AM
|The Axiom felt awesome, like it was carved from a solid block of metal. The Odonata felt more - here's a dumb word - "sprightly," but still precise. If I were 15lb heavier or still racing, I'd probably have gone with the Axiom, but the Odonata just felt right for me and my kind of riding.|
|Re: Seven (LONG!)||cheap a rama|
Sep 12, 2001 9:43 AM
|All I can say is for $3k+ (frame only) it BETTER BE THE BEST DAMN BIKE IN THE WORLD. You got more mony than sense.|
|Re: Seven (LONG!)||MikeC|
Sep 12, 2001 10:50 AM
|Nyaah-Nyaah nyaah nyaah-nyahh!
Gee. I guess I proved you're right ;-)
Sep 12, 2001 7:07 AM
|i almost purchased a litespeed tuscany until i checked out a colnago mxl...before u decide you owe it to yourself to check this bike out...i got mine about 3 wks ago and the ride is amazing...it weighs 19 1/2 lbs but rides a lot lighter...ride safe|
Sep 12, 2001 8:45 AM
|Best way to choose: Test ride them all!!!!
2)Not over-rated. Worth the money? Well...it's hard to justify to most people spending that much. But I did, and I don't regret it. The big difference that you will get with 7 over the others is a frame custom designed and built for you. It will fit great and have whatever features/ride characteristics you want. Check out their website. Lots of stuff to read there.
4)If you're worried about surviving crashes, maybe carbon has a downside there. But if you buy a $3000 frame you'll probably be even more worried about crashing it. I don't think carbon has a durability problem.
Sep 12, 2001 3:48 PM
|I would say the bottom line is this; any of these bikes will make you a very happy man. You are looking at a price range from $2,000 to $3,000 for a frame and fork. Does that make a difference to you?
I have a KG281, great bike, I love it. I also know someone to has an Odonata w/ a Wound Up fork, Seven seatpost and Seven stem. One of the most beautiful bikes I have ever seen. And Litespeed is an excellent brand, they would not be as big as they are if they produced junk.
If all bikes fit you equally well, then flip a coin. It would hard not to like any of these bikes.
|Get Kg281 - less then 1000 bucks||Wagnerite|
Sep 12, 2001 7:31 PM
|I think Totalcycling.com still list their look 281 frames for 1200 dollars, but i got my yellow one for 650 pounds, that translates to less then 1000 bucks, shipped to my door, and comes with Deda Newton stem AND bar. |
for the price of a seven, or a high end litespeed, you can get 3 of the look frames, sheesh, that's pretty much disposable.
Sep 12, 2001 9:33 PM
|Hey, don't tell the philastines about this wonderful frame.
|Get Kg281 - less then 1000 bucks||Ian|
Sep 13, 2001 4:53 AM
|I know I keep repeating this, but you do not get a US warranty with a frame bought overseas. I suppose for an $800 savings, I may not care either, but it is worth noting.|
|Loaded question.....||Len J|
Sep 13, 2001 3:10 PM
|and you may get some loaded answers.
Seven's are in a different price range than most Lightspeeds & Looks (with a few exceptions).
Ride feel is very personal, you will have to rely on your own ride. However, remember that Seven can be customized to get almost any ride feel.